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Mini-rant about Star Wars comics

 
 
diz
00:50 / 05.12.03
it's a terribly shameful confession, i know, but i read Star Wars comics. specifically, the recent prequel-era and Clone Wars stuff.

if you don't, let me explain.

yes, most of the SW comics ever publised suck. some, however, don't. specifically, the Ostrander/Duursema and to a slightly lesser degree the Blackman/Ching issues of Star Wars: Republic and all four issues of Jedi are really quite good.

John Ostrander has been chatting on SW forums lately about how proud he is of his recent work with Jan Duursema and how it kinda bugs him that they aren't getting noticed by general comics audiences because of the stigma attached to that sort of licensed material (and to SW in general). i sympathized, and i thought i would mention them somewhere i hadn't read about them before, where people have good taste in comics. namely, here.

i just finished reading Jedi: Dooku, and i was totally floored. basically, damn near everything in Republic has been building up to this point since Quinlan Vos popped up in issue #19, and we're at issue #58 now. a lot of long, well-done character development led right up to the climax of this issue, and then on top of that, they have the balls to risk it all on one dramatic turn.

i'm being sort of vague here, since i'm not sure if anyone cares, but, well ... these are damn good comics, with well-developed characters, and compelling plotlines, and i think people should check them out.
 
 
rakehell
01:02 / 05.12.03
Are these comics official or are they in their own continuity? I've always been confused about that.
 
 
CameronStewart
01:47 / 05.12.03
As far as I know all the comics, novelisations, etc are proofread by Lucasfilm to ensure that they don't contradict enything that appears in any of the existing or upcoming films, but I don't think it works in reverse. The comics have no impact on the continuity of the films.
 
 
Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo
01:53 / 05.12.03
The problem with the Star Wars comics is that they aren't about characters I give a damn about. Neither does anyone else. To say that no one cares because they are licensed ignores the fact that Dark Empire I and II got a LOT of attention, sales and fan acclaim.

It's that we don't want to read about Majoleiie Darkejeooo and his troubles. We want to read about the characters from the first three movies, and when they have comics about THEM, they sell.
 
 
CameronStewart
02:37 / 05.12.03
I should plug that my studio partner Kagan McLeod did a kickass Mace Windu story in Star Wars Tales.

The only Star Wars comic I ever read.
 
 
sleazenation
08:16 / 05.12.03
star wars comics and indeed all things star wars require *many* levels of clearence from the continuity personnel at Skywalker ranch...
 
 
FinderWolf
14:17 / 05.12.03
I loved the old Marvel Star Wars comics (which featured some early Walt Simnson work, pre-THOR, whick kicked ass), and the old Al Williamson-illustrated newspaper strips. To me, these will always be the pinnacle of STAR WARS comics - pre-EPISODES I, II and III, old school and quality fun all the way.
 
 
diz
14:29 / 05.12.03
As far as I know all the comics, novelisations, etc are proofread by Lucasfilm to ensure that they don't contradict enything that appears in any of the existing or upcoming films, but I don't think it works in reverse. The comics have no impact on the continuity of the films.

basically, yeah. there are two levels of canon in SW: movie canon and expanded universe (EU) canon. everything published in the EU is considered to be part of EU continuity, and although there are some apparent contradictions that float up from time to time, it's actually kept on a pretty tight leash. obviously, though, the movies trump everything, and the EU sort of has to roll with the punches when new movies come out.

Lucas basically tries to honor EU continuity whenever he can, but in some cases he runs roughshod all over things and EU folks have to scramble to keep things in order. so far, things are holding together for the most part, with a few problem areas like Boba Fett's new origin as of Episode II still needing re-working, and EU people are much more integrated into the Lucasfilm orbit than they used to be and Lucasfilm Licensing (LFL) keeping a much tighter rein on things and keeping communication channels open and busy to avoid screw-ups.

right now, that's working most solidly with the Clone Wars. Episode II ends with the first battle of the Clone Wars, and Episode III will begin with the last major battle, basically bookending an era which is being handled entirely in the EU, in novels, games, the cartoon micro-series, and the comics.

basically, the gap between movies is 3 years in real life, and also 3 years in-universe, and LFL, Dark Horse, Del Rey, and everyone else have essentially planned everything out to have the Clone Wars unfold from point A to point B, seamlessly and in as close to real time as production issues allow. the idea is that you walk out of the theater, pick up the comics, novels, etc, and work you way through, putting down the last bridge novel or comic issue, and heading to the theater to pick up write where you left off.

it's working really well so far, mostly because the prequel-era EU sources, especially the comics, had already built up a really solid background during the time between episodes I and II, and so the war storylines are basically tearing through a cast of characters which was developed in a time of relative peace.

The problem with the Star Wars comics is that they aren't about characters I give a damn about. Neither does anyone else. To say that no one cares because they are licensed ignores the fact that Dark Empire I and II got a LOT of attention, sales and fan acclaim.

well, sort of. Dark Empire sold really well, but it's loathed and mocked by most of the fanbase, with the exception of a small, vocal minority, simply because the Clone Emperor storyline, complete with its ever-more-goofy superweapons and the resurrection of Boba Fett, is such utter shit, though the art is admittedly fantastic. it's one of the worst SW stories ever written, IMHO and in the opinions of many others.

to a large extent, it's emblematic of everything that's ever been wrong with the EU: shameless attempts to recycle old villains and out-Death Star the Death Star, and counting on brand loyalty and loyalty to the established characters from the original trilogy (OT) to move the book. it's lazy, and it basically pisses away the great story potential of the SW universe in a shameless attempt to milk fanboys for money.

It's that we don't want to read about Majoleiie Darkejeooo and his troubles. We want to read about the characters from the first three movies, and when they have comics about THEM, they sell.

well, to a certain extent, that may be true, but if so, that's a shame, because, frankly, most of the best stories in the EU do not focus primarily on the OT characters. i mean, i don't really think The X-Men would continue to have any sort of relevance if it had only focused on the original 5 members exclusively, and hadn't continued to develop its world and its cast of characters beyond that, and i'd hate to see SW reduced to the continuing adventures of an ever-less-interesting Luke Skywalker.

the problem, admittedly, is sorting through all the crap to get to the good shit, especially when the amount of crap is pretty high (though not as high as it used to be).

right now, the Clone Wars are the best thing happening, especially in terms of comics. basically, the Clone Wars boil down to this:

the stories focus primarily on the wide cast of prequel-era Jedi, who are leading the Republic's war against the Separatists. however, the whole war is a sham: both sides are basically being manipulated into annhilating each other by the future Emperor Palpatine.

moreover, the Jedi are in a terrible predicament. they are fighting the Separatists to keep together the Republic which they've served for 25,000, and to protect the galaxy from the Separatist leader Count Dooku, whom they know has become a Sith Lord. clearly, they can't let a dark sider conquer the galaxy - that's their whole purpose. also, the upper ranks of the Separatist hierarchy is dominated by various brutal and exploitative corporate factions.

however, the Separatists have a lot of legitimate grievances against the Republic. it's bloated and stagnant and collapsing in upon itself. it's riddled with inefficiencies, corruption, and abuse of privelege. many of the poorer worlds in the backwaters have been totally locked out of the corridors of power by the elite, and have never gotten much of anything out of being a member of the Republic, which is too overstretched to extend protection and services to all the member worlds it demands loyalty from. as such, the Separatist movement is legitimately popular on many worlds, and Dooku is widely regarded as a liberator, which to no small extent, he really is.

this frequently leaves the Jedi in the position of being forced by strategic leading brutal reconquests of worlds and imposing Loyalist governments on them which they don't want. this does nothing to help their already not-so-good reputation, which is tinged with basically legitimate resentment at this weird monastic order of lightsaber-wielding superpeople who steal babies and have taken it upon themselves to decide what's best for everyone else from the top of their Ivory Tower.

plus, the very act of waging war poses difficulties for people trying to hold true to the Jedi philosophy of respect for life. the war is really brutal, and they're basically leading a massive slave army of clones with no respect for anyone's life, including their own. they're constantly forced into moral dilemmas weighing the tactical and strategic requirements of war against their own need to struggle with the Dark Side. there are rebel factions within the Jedi Order, both those who refuse to join the war effort and a few who actively support the other side (which also poses issues for the Council in trying to respect a certain level of freedom of conscience).

basically, it's a war story where the main characters are fighting a war or extremely dubious morality while trying to reconcile that with a set of philosophical beliefs that place a high value on nonviolence, while at the same time the nooses their real enemy (the future Emperor) has placed around their necks continue to tighten. they're getting fucked from all sides, basically, and they don't even really know how badly even as the walls close in on them. they're basically flailing in the dark, realizing how badly botched things have gotten but having no idea how they got that way and having no idea how to fix it.

of course, we know that they're all doomed because we've seen the OT and none of them except Obi-Wan and Yoda are in it.

and, as i said above, these aren't just random characters. there are several years' worth of stories from the prewar era, fleshing out their backgrounds and peacetime struggles with their own issues as well as the shadowy forces operating all around them.

it all makes for very dark, paranoid, good, solid character-driven drama.
 
 
fluid_state
20:15 / 05.12.03
Dig the Star Wars Tales; Mostly good art, fun stories, and often ditches the albatross of continuity by having characters in a bar tell tall tales about the established characters. If you're, uh, emotionally invested in the Star Wars flm universe, I'd recommend avoiding it; stories like "Darth Vader's Diary" may be too whimsical.

I like some of the Infinities stuff, too. Star Wars What If? stories. These formats (imaginary-episodic and alternate reality) seem to be the only viable solution for re-using the core film characters without the baggage of a trillion novelizations.

Miss the Marvel Star Wars comics. Great fun, especially after Empire. And I want to see those old "Han Solo" novels given the comic treatment.
 
 
Simplist
18:10 / 06.12.03
While I have little interest in following the whole EU business, I do enjoy the occasional Star Wars comic, and now and then pick up a random TP if nothing else looks worth buying at the comic store that week. I dug "Betrayal", the recent book featuring Vader and the Emperor putting down an uprising from within just before the first film opens--cool court intrigue/spy stuff. Some of the anthology books have been cool too--the recent Clone Wars collection by Ostrander and various others was fun. Thing is, most SW stuff, while generally enjoyable, is also sufficiently fluffy and forgettable that I can hardly remember any that I read more than a year ago. Possibly the knowledge that the stories don't ultimately matter in terms of the "real" (film) continuity contributes to that.

Dark Empire sold really well, but it's loathed and mocked by most of the fanbase, with the exception of a small, vocal minority, simply because the Clone Emperor storyline, complete with its ever-more-goofy superweapons and the resurrection of Boba Fett, is such utter shit, though the art is admittedly fantastic. it's one of the worst SW stories ever written, IMHO and in the opinions of many others.

Well, ok, I do remember that one. It was unforgettable, and not in a good way. It was like the writer was purposely trying to import as many bad comic book cliches into the SW universe as he could possibly fit into one book, ie. everything people mock in superhero comics but with SW characters going through the motions instead. I never read the sequel, but hopefully later writers didn't feel bound to pay attention to either.
 
 
Ben Danes
01:33 / 07.12.03
Diz nailed it perfectly. When you think about, what happens to the Jedi is pretty f'ing dark. It's a lot darker than you think, and also a lot more complex.

Ostrander has been a great writer on his books. He really nails it well.

The Dooku one-shot was great. I wasn't that impressed a quarter of the way through it, but then he fully kicks it up a level. And you see how he is the 'bad guy', but then on the other hand he is the 'good guy' as well. Well worth a read.
 
 
sleazenation
12:16 / 07.12.03
I got a load of star wars trades out of the library a few years ago, most of them covering the orgins of the sith and jedi orders and they were really dull - the story failed to engage or even interest me and most of the art was more of a chore to look at than anything else.

More than anything else it was this experience in the EU that turned me off while I have read a few Star wars trades since then (mostly freebies and such) and some of these have had much better levels of artwork and story-telling. Unfortunately i think the most of the damage, for me at least, has already been done. Dark Horse usually put a lot of care and attention into their licenced properties and that care usually shows but from what i understand of the approval process associated with the star wars license -creating interesting comics is more likely to come about despite rather than because of the influence of the license holder...
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
23:36 / 08.01.05
Thanks to a recent work-related rekindling of Star Wars interest (isn't there a movie coming out soon or something?) I've found myself once again gravitating towards the EU. I actually find myself even more interested in some of the better developed EU characters than some of the one note laughers in Film Canon. As far as the comics go, though, the biggest strike against them is, nine times out of ten, they sport some of the worst artwork currently published. Something like Obsession, which on paper should be must-read, features scanned and "digitally inked" (i.e. fiddle with Brightness and Contrast in Photoshop until the lines are dark enough) pencils on an artist who clearly is not well served by the procedure. They also tend to be, whether its decompression or whatever, some of the slightest reads out there. But once you get into the novels (which I enjoy) you kind of wouldn't mind knowing what else is going on in the universe. Unfortunately, as has been mentioned, the art is a complete fucking chore to get through. An afternoon of discussing Knights Of The Old Republic has certainly fostered an interest in the Tales Of The Jedi comics (as they deal with the early Jedi/Sith wars) but I swear, I have never seen art this god-awful in a comic.

When you get even competent artists its a different story. The books can be very enjoyable. When you get someone like Dave Gibbons (see: Vader's Quest) the results are truly incredible. A recent flip through at the local bookshoppe has proved that Empire, at least in its early issues, had some nice art, as do plenty of the Tales stories. The Clone Wars stories though, by and large, look like they suffer from the same shortcomings as Obsession. Plenty of not ready for prime time art. It's unfortunate, because these are probably the books I'd be most interested in. I picked up a handful of individual issues, though, and if budget allows, I'll probably be following them for a while, as the writing, at least, isn't bad at all.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
00:34 / 09.01.05
Simple question, for someone who reads Star Wars comics.

I love, and am a sucker for, Star Wars stuff. For this reason, I try to avoid the SW comics, cos I'd just end up buying a whole load of shit with maybe a couple of diamonds in it. However, I have fond memories of the old Simonson stuff, and, browsing, have seen new stuff that looks ace.

Soo...

Which are good? Which would you recommend? Don't care where in EU continuity they come, which are a fun read? Which FEEL LIKE STAR WARS?
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
02:22 / 09.01.05
I've got a patchwork collection of books, so the only ones I can reccomend wholeheartedly are Vader's Quest, The Jabba Tape one shot and, for laughs, Tag And Bink Are Dead.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
03:53 / 09.01.05
Diz, if I wanted to go out and buy some trade paperbacks of the Clone Wars comic, is that going to be possible? And where would be the place to start? The first volume and then just keeping reading up to this point?

You've piqued my interest.
 
 
Spaniel
10:42 / 09.01.05
Yeah, me too. So, Diz, are they out there or should I rifle through the back issue bins?
 
 
Dan Fish - @Fish1k
06:58 / 10.01.05
According to http://www.starwars.com/clonewars/about/books.html there are 4 Clone Wars trades (plus one based on the cartoon)
 
 
Spaniel
08:43 / 10.01.05
Yeah, I used the magic of Amazon. I think I'll pick one of these up.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
05:42 / 11.11.05
I just wanted to note that the past two issues of Star Wars: Republic have been quite good. Spectacular art, actually, which I found terribly exciting.

The past two issues have been directly following Revenge of the Sith. #78 began with Vader being introduced to the upper tier of the Imperial Fleet. #79 is starting a storyline that details some of the surviving Jedi's doings. I'm really looking forward to all this pos-ROTS stuff, and seeing the early days of the Rebellion, I hope.
 
 
THX-1138
13:31 / 13.11.05
Keith, did you pick up the # 79 ? Are you also following the latest arc in Empire?
Both good reads.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
15:10 / 13.11.05
#79 of Republic is what made me bump this thread back up. I was really quite impressed with it. I haven't been reading Empire...worth looking into it, I take it?
 
 
THX-1138
19:57 / 13.11.05
maybe. But I'm a big fan of the artistic team on the current arc, so I am biased when I say check it out. These are the final arcs too aren't they?
 
 
Mister Six, whom all the girls
18:42 / 16.11.05
Out in January
(preview from fourthrail.com)
Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic #1 (Dark Horse) - DAVE: Spinning off of the much-loved Old Republic video games is a smart idea as Dark Horse relaunches its Star Wars line in the wake of the prequals wrapping up.
 
 
akira
21:01 / 13.08.06
Are the clone wars comics any good? Saw a few on ebay cheap.
 
 
Dan Fish - @Fish1k
13:01 / 17.08.06
STAR WARS: EMPIRE VOLUME 7-THE WRONG SIDE OF THE WAR
WELLES HARTLEY (W), DAVIDÉ FABBRI (P), CHRISTIAN DALLA VECCHIA (I), and DAVID MICHAEL BECK (Cover)
On sale Jan. 17 , FC, 120 pages , $17.95 , TPB, 7" x 10"
o Just in time for the thirtieth anniversary of Star Wars comes a story that reintroduces a character not mentioned since A New Hope!
o Collecting issues #36-40 of Star Wars Empire, this graphic novel holds a surprise that is sure to delight every Star Wars fan!

I'm mildly intrigued by this solicitation - Anyone care to spoil the surprise for me? Also, how did they manage to find a character not mentioned since ANH? I thought they'd done action figures and spin-off novels for every conceivable bit-part ever?
 
 
Mario
13:17 / 17.08.06
Given the timeframe involved, it's probably Biggs, or one of the other friends from Tattoine.
 
 
THX-1138
23:42 / 17.08.06
Not sure what the big surprise is, but *spoiler?* follows





the character not mentioned since ANH is Tank
as in whiney Skywalker kid: (paraphrased) "but Biggs and Tank got to leave..."

any of you check out SW: Legacy? If so thoughts, opinions?
 
  
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