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Underground > Comic Books >

Promethea # 28

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The Tower Always Falls

23:53 / 03.12.03

I mostly enjoy reading these as opposed to posting anything but this must be said.

Oh. Fuck. Yeah.

In that order. A nice summary of my reactions and the issue itself.

00:37 / 04.12.03

I second that... hesitantly.

There was LOTS to be ecstatic about. Like fat and wacky Stacia, Jack and Dennis all being brought to Sophie's mom's to await the big unbanging. I LOVED the differently drawn meeting of America's Best and the dropping of Jack B. Quick by the Americna Government. His violent adherence to science seems like a bigger threat to Promethea than the realization of the Painted Doll. And I was SO WRONG! I was SURE that Dennis Drucker was the Painted Doll, but it was Stan! Kickass! And it was really smart to have lost the Fifth Swell Guy when the World Trade Center Towers fell.

But goddamit the scene that makes me hesitate my bimonthly praise smacks ridiculously of Dane and Satan's walk throguh the Outer Church in the Invisible Kingdom. Yes. You too will be amazed at JHW3 and AM completely aping Morrison and Stewart. While I think that it was entirely intentional on their part to reference Morrison's end-of-the-world, I think it's more like Moore saying very plainly that their visions and messages about the supercontext of the immediate future are the same.

I got the damn pages scanned, but I can't post them in this thread until somebody hosts them somewhere.

02:26 / 04.12.03

Anybody got a pic of the cover?

13:17 / 04.12.03

for the cover of Promethea 28, go here:

http://eroomnala.bravepages.com/28.html

14:11 / 04.12.03

This was a very good issue, but I second the slightly hesitant praise -- something about it seems kinda stretched-out. Like not much is has really happened in the past two issues. But still, it's beautiful and well-done regardless.

Jack B. Quick's appearing - with J.H. Williams III drawing in his best Kevin Nowlan stlyle, and Todd Klein even aping Nolan's lettering style, made me laugh out loud on the subway as I read it. People were looking at me like "This guy must be on drugs or very messed up." I was like, "Nice one, Moore. You got me. I never thought I'd see Jack B. Quick again, much less in an apocalytpic end-of-the-entire-ABC-line PROMETHEA storyline.

The one thing that struck me as cheesy was the Smee quoting REM. "That's Smee in the corner...losing my religion" *GROAN* The Smee's trying-to-be-clever word associations officially got old for me right before that moment, and when I read the REM thing I was like "Wow, the first time I've ever read anything by Alan Moore that made me think 'this is CHEESY'!"

I thought Lucille Ball would become the Painted Doll - she sorta looked like him in the latter half of this issue. Plus her absurdist name. I wonder if that was an intentional red herring from Moore. Nice writing with the little paragraphs that evoked 9/11 stuff.

But what's Stan's motivation for being/making the Painted Doll? That revelation seemed sorta quickly forced and left Stan as a cipher villain or a "I'm evil for the sake of it!! Mwahh-haah-haah!" villain. Even the "Well, you're supposed to be the genius" line, which hinted at him always feeling marginalized since he was just the tech guy, seemed kind of lame to me.

But I AM psyched about the grand Apocalypse of the ABC line, and seeing how Moore will pull it off.

"Go be universe again" was a cool line, even if all that stuff seems Morrison-derived.

And a cool cover. With more cool lettering by uber-letterer Todd Klein.

16:22 / 04.12.03

It ROCKED ROCKED ROCKED!!!

Yeah there was some Morrisonian similarities yet it holds together here in a much more cohesive manor. This Universe's cosmology is so well defined that the visual clues have tramendious impact... the glass of water scene!?!?!? C'mon, what was that in not brilliant!?!?

The Brahma god-head scene worked particularly well for me because of the comic's ability to switch artistic "feels." The same hold true for the the various charactors. Did you notice the icons.... Jack B. Quick makes a much better Horus than Marvel Boy or even Jack Frost.

Stacia asks . . . "are we going to have sex?"

Jack Faust; compasionate.

And was it me or does Sophie's mom look exceptionally healthy and well maintained... younger even. I wonder if She'll hook up with Jack Faust.

17:02 / 04.12.03

I suggested months ago that Trish should hook up with Kenneth, the psychic from the Five/Four/Three Swell Guys. Kenneth has a connection to Sophiethea, and his wife left him at the beginning of the series. Jack might be a good match for her, but I think he might be a bit too grandfatherly compassionate at this point in HIS life. Trish DOES look a helluvalot better though. I like that she's grown up too in the past three years. The scene where Sophie/Joey calls her back in 26 still hurts.

I said only a couple days ago that Proemthea helped me understand the Inivisbles, this issue is a great primer for those who didn't quite get the "outside of time" parts.

Little boy Jack B. Quick is the wand. Little girl Promethea is the cup. I wonder if we're gonna see hermaphroditic Horus in the form of Jack B. Methea?

03:50 / 05.12.03

BEHOLD. THE 1ST POST OF KWENDECENTRAL

Now that all THAT'S out of the way....

Yeah I really liked this issue. The phosphorescent New York was stunning. I liked the run-on sentences too. Just a nice stylistic touch. I collected this series through a back issue scourge (got all 26 too...caught up @ 27) and so I don't really have the sense of pacing that all of you do. I went through Moore's Magical Kabala School over a 2-3 month period, and now the world's ending. It's weird 'cause for me, in those magic/kabala issues, it seemed as though more was going on. Now that the world's ending it's almost as if the pace has slowed.

BTW, all who mentioned it (Chesed in particular) were soooooo right to point out that Morrison thing. When I what he said in that interview about Alan Moore trying to be him, I just thought him sassy. This is some next shit tho. The liquefying panel liquefies before she gets out in the Über-Context as well as the whole scene reeked of Morrison's nutz. Not to say they weren't well done. Simply a bit derivative. As was that scene in #26 @ the start with the guy renting the porn flick (The Filth, as I’m sure I don't EVEN have to mention around geeks of all of your caliber, but as it is my first time, please, allow me my comforts. I'm used to normals.) Again, very well done, but still derivative scenes. I'd hate to have to see Moore kiss Morrison's sass.

Now regarding the Painted Doll, I'm also underwhelmed by the revelation that Stan is behind the Painted Doll. This may just be a case of underwhelment due to underdevelopment though. Besides, I'm less interested in who's behind him, and more interested in his structural significance. What's he there FOR??

America's Best were great to see. The appearance of Jack B. Quick just slayed me. I need some hard hitting, potentially violent science in MY life.

And just what IS it about a bald Kenneth?? He's had one of the most interesting sub-plots running in the entire series. I'll betcha he'll shock us.

And yes, Tricks. The water thing is ridiculously cool.

If I think of anything else I won't be shy.

SO ENDS THE FIR...ahhh fuk it...

08:12 / 05.12.03

Crikey, that there is good comics.

Loved the 'pulling her out of the story' bit, and the way she was dressed like a baby is suggestive of various things, innit ?

Some of the effects were very nice, too - the way that they 'teleport' (the red for the place they're leaving, the green for the destination, infer traffic lights or the opening of 'Airplane!' as you prefer), and the way that everything touched by the 'glass of water effect' goes hyper-real as in that issue with the Villaruba semi-fumetti-montage-stuff (7, was it?). Looked great, really interesting to read.

Class.

14:11 / 05.12.03

If you want to extend the Morrison thing, look at the red/green stop/go of the Barbelith Cosmic Traffic Light in THE INVISIBLES

And yeah, the semi-fumetti stuff was cool. J.H. Williams III never ceases to amaze.

14:27 / 05.12.03

I really want to think the whole Morrison-esque-ness of this issue is really just a carry over of 27's cover theme. Moore and JHW3 obviously want to reference what they think are art "greats". There was tremedous response from the meeting of Superman and Spiderman back in the seventies, and we're barely feeling the effect that the Invisibles have/will have. As far as I'll concern myself with it, the "outside the game" spread is merely an homage, and handshake to another great comic-verse eschaton.

There was even Magic Mirror™ being used to frame the edges of Breughel's meeting the Godheads.

22:48 / 06.12.03

For some reason, this is the first issue of Promethea in a long time that's not overwhelmed me. Not that I was underwhelmed, just...not overwhelmed. I really wasn't sure of the Morrison-referencing stuff, but the poetry was good, Jack B Quick as the secret super-weapon was good, the Painted Doll revelation was interesting, but...Last issue hinted at something much bigger, much better. I dunno.

I get a real sense of poignancy about America's Best, though. With the exception of JBQ they just seem out of their league here, even Tom Strong. There's something tragically pathetic about them, all going up against something they can only conceptualize, for all their 'science-hero' malarkey, in a totally limited way. Poor little dominoes...

04:08 / 07.12.03

Fantastic issue... I'm not going to gush as you all've done it better. The only problem I had with it was the painted doll... yeah it was kinda cool but I really wanted it to be someone we'd (I'd) invested in. This Stan guy's a nobody. And so it lost some punch. Also promethea is so insanely powerful that the throngs of Dolls don't seem like much of a threat.

HunterWolf: I liked the REM quote. But that's cause it reminded me of john the baptist's head singing "you spin me 'round 'round, baby".

Actually, I'd like to see a fight between JBQ and Little Margie.

The Natural Way

16:42 / 07.12.03

My thoughts on the "Morrison referencing stuff":

I think the whole "Look, Moore's copying Morrison!" thing's far too easy and simple. Anyone that's read Steve Bissette's brief history of his time working with old beardy-weird could tell you right now, when big Al's pissed with someone he's REAL pissed and he goes to great pains to insure that their stuff NEVER intersects with his. So, I can easily imagine a situation where Moore doesn't even steal a glance at Grant's books on the shelf. It sounds like the sort of thing he'd do. What absolutely DOESN'T sound like something he'd do is steal another writer's ideas. The guy's middle name is 'conviction' and 'earnest beardiness'.

The fact is (and, yes, I've read the latest Promethea), I tend to think Al and Grant come up with these ideas contemporaneously simply by virtue of the fact that they read similar books, have similar interests and are both very interested in comics as a technology.... Y'know, it's not that big a hop skip or a jump for anyone that's come across 'Flatland' (or any of that multiple dimension theory jazz) to apply the FROM 2D TO 3D! stuff to their stories.

Some other stuff to consider:

When has Moore ripped off someone else before?

and

Promethea's Alan's big, fun, populist magical tract. It's his magical journey's reflection in the mainstream. This is PERSONAL STUFF.

22:59 / 07.12.03

I believe early Moore owes something of a debt to Chris Claremont. And he's mentioned using a Gabriel Garcia Marquez framing device (I think?) on Swamp Thing.

This was brilliant, though. Good enough to make me reconsider my negative attitude to Tomorrow Stories

08:49 / 08.12.03

when has moore ripped someone off before?

well, from hell was pretty much just a conflation of iain sinclair's poetic trilogy Lud Heat, Suicide Bridge and White Chappel Scarlet Tracings mixed with steven knight's ripper book the final solution and ackroydian lit-hist fiction.

moore's a mix and matcher too - the things he likes become personal for him, like they do for everyone else, thereafter becoming something new again, a wicked sequence in an issue of promethea. but the TLE trip in the latest issue comes straight out of invisibles no.1, that's clear as day.

The Natural Way

17:56 / 08.12.03

No, Khao, it really isn't. Why's it so hard to believe the man could come up with this idea w/out Morrison? Y'know, pointing out that Al's work does sometimes utilise other people's ideas isn't enough for me here. I mean, I think it's possible, I suppose, but I'm far from believing it's a definite.

22:05 / 08.12.03

I think it would be a bit stupid, yeah. I don't think Alan is terribly stupid.

It's pretty likely they read similar source material, when writing about magick & pop science.

Grant really doesn't like Promethea, apparently.

22:07 / 08.12.03

But you did ask 'When has...', so.

08:26 / 09.12.03

no dude it really is - either moore got it from invisibles no.1 or he's just three fucking years behind morrison and did it thinking it was original

12:51 / 09.12.03

Who the fuck says this issue is worth a value judgement on the part of its creator? Or even something worth getting pissed about? I think it's abso-fucking brilliant FOR the likenessnesses between the two series. I don't think Moore "copied" anything. His idea about the eschaton is just as learned as Morrison's. If anything, JHW3's the guy who decided to make the layout and visual cues similar to Invisibles, and he may have even suggested the word spheres have jumbled text to the letterer.

Either way, the only ones who'll squabble over this are the comics intelligentsia, anyone else wouldn't catch it, or be silly enough to have bought both series.

BTW, how did you find out that Grant doesn't like Promethea, dunc?

15:53 / 09.12.03

I read a webchat with him, when ABC had not long started, and he said he didn't much like the line, but he was quoted as having been particularly abusive of it at the San Diego Comicon.

16:07 / 09.12.03

Hunh. Well, I'd love to hear and try to understand what exactly about the ABC line, and Promethea in particular, he finds so distasteful. I've read some of his interviews, and I kind of have an idea WHY he thinks so, but I'd still like to read it.

16:11 / 09.12.03

I don't have any exact quotes. I know he really didn't like the figurative approach to Qaballah from 13-24.

17:20 / 09.12.03

He wasn't abusive at all to the ABC line or Promethea in San Diego. The exact quote when asked about his thoughts on Promethea was (somewhat sheepishly) - "Well the art's good, isn't it?".

He said he thought Moore's portrayal of the sephiroths as magical wonderlands that you 'travel to' was counterproductive to people understanding magic in the world around them - that the ideas were not amusement parks, but everyday things - that you visit Hod by having something as simple as a conversation, etc. - not by visiting a mystical disneyland. It was all very low-key.

I did get the impression that his gripes were rather small - I just think he and Moore object to one another philosophically.

But Morrison apparently does at least regularly look at Promethea. I wouldn't be surprised if his latest barb in the Pulse interview was inspired by reading an advance copy of Promethea #28, though.

17:25 / 09.12.03

Well that's nothing new. Nearly everyone hated the Kabbalah episodes. Probably too much exposition for him, or maybe he thinks Moore was dumbing the esoteric down, or enlightening the unworthy. Maybe he thinks kabbalic concepts should be more analogical through events in characters's lives... But I think of Promethea as a beautifully drawn how-to book, not a novel. Everything in Promethea has been a BASIC guide to magic and myth and bringing the esoteric to the popular masses. oh :P Maybe he wanted more Promethea 1-3s, 9s and 11s. I like the 5-8s, 10s, 12s and 13-23s. Less bullshit action, more learning.

21:02 / 09.12.03

I think it's quite the opposite - Morrison's opposed to the esoteria, if I'm gleaning his words correctly. I think he's more interested in magick being portrayed as accessible and everyday, in ways people can relate to.

And saying Morrison doesn't like some mindless cartoon action every now and then is like saying Alan Moore is clean shaven - has been all his life.

Moore's done an awesome job of laying down the contents of a century's worth of grimoires in a condensed comic form - I think Grant's more interested by moving things beyond that, away from magic tomes and into peoples living rooms, video games, jobs, and sex lives.

22:07 / 09.12.03

People hated the Kabbalah issues?!?!? Excusez moi? What the shit! Those were the best ones. By far the most imaginative and exemplary of the entire series. EVERY SINGLE ONE LOOKED ABSOLOUTELY DIFFERENT FROM THE OTHER. Think about all the ways they found to convey what those sephiroths were about to us. All the detail.

Who hated those??? I mean disagree with is one thing, but hate would just be denying the quality.

Agree with me.
- Quentin Quire

23:37 / 09.12.03

I see what you mean. Moore did present the sephiroth in a seemingly separatist way... but the dialogue never led me to believe that anything was separated from a simple state of mind.

And I didn't mean that Morrison didn't like cartoon violence, I meant that he does. I'M the one who's tired of the same old.

And Kwembe... if you're serious, nearly everybody hated those issues. By everybody I meant the general comics-buying public. And several people with educated opinions made the point of saying that Moore was using Promethea as his personal pulpit, that the storyline were boring, and just too damn long.

02:56 / 10.12.03

Well, I can understand that. As I said, I bought these in a back issue dig. I never thought about how long it would take for them to come out in realtime. As a volume they’re a great work of art. As a bi-monthly periodical type-thing I suppose it’s just drawn out. And yes, there definitely were points where the dialogue was completely pedantic, but I thought that that was what we’d signed on for.

That having been said, I don’t get why people would complain that Promethea is Moore’s pulpit. Why would it be anything but that? Isn’t that what everyone does? Wasn’t Transmet the broadsheet of Ellis’ anarchist ideas? Wasn’t The Filth Morrison’s hyper-time meta-real qlippothic vision quest?? Everybody’s got their book. Usually those are the ones we’re interested in most. It just comes off as whiny to me. Why would we want a book with something other than his personal opinions. Especially if it’s been established that that’s the kind of book that it’s going to be.

But that’s me. I don’t read it to get what I get out of Tom Strong. I read Tom Strong for that. Though I’ve been enjoying him in Promethea a lot. I agree with what someone said about the science heroes having a sense of helplessness. Like they just know how immensely powerful Promethea is and that they’re now just part of the process. Except for that quixotic Jack B. Quick. He’s got juice.

*Will he be a Dick and say Kwende “with a D”? Will he?? WILL HE?!?!?*

04:11 / 15.12.03

just to set the record straight...we are in no way referencing invisibles. not in the script that was handed to me or in my drawing of it. i haven't even read the invisibles but i will at some point. that entire scene is actually based on something alan actually experienced. the fact that it is similar to something in a 3 year old morrison book is purely by chance. after all they do have similar interests. and no i don't think alan is behind by three years either. its just relevant to the current trend of the story that he is telling. and i'm sure it is presented in a different way than it appers in the invisibles as well. you guys aren't giving alan enough credit here. i know he wouldn't directly be ripping off another writers work. that being said. i feel that morrison making public statements in the manner in which he makes them is not very becoming. as i have posted elsewhere on the net. besides that all of the other comments about promethea 28 are very appreciated by us. thanks for reading
------------------
rise and reverberate

05:27 / 15.12.03

Well that settles that.

Thanks for the response Mr. Willams. I'm impressed your hands have modes other than "Draw-like-some-sort-of-fucked-up-universe-rendering-drawing-machine". You seem to type quite neatly too. And here I thought I was was just posting for other geeks...

Anyone know when this book is finishing? Collected it will be the absoloute sweetest...

07:02 / 15.12.03

i feel that morrison making public statements in the manner in which he makes them is not very becoming.

The man said he liked your art. What more do you want?

13:29 / 15.12.03

Thanks for stoping by JHW3. Although I don't participate in the DC Promethea boards, I do read them and am impressed by your consistent interaction with your fans. I love Promethea. It's probably my favorite book ever.

14:44 / 15.12.03

Wow, very cool of you to stop by, JHW3. Thanks for chiming in. And yes, Moore and Morrison do have similar interests, so I don't really see what all the fuss is about. And I think Morrison's attacks on Moore, though he just means them to be trash-talking fun like Stan did about DC, are a bit immature and aren't really necessary.

I didn't know there even was a board for PROMETHEA on the DC Boards, much less know that JHW3 posted on it/read it. Nice!

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