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Underground > Comic Books >

General New X-Men

22:20 / 29.11.03

I couldn't find a general thread for the book, so I made one. Sorry if it's more noise.

I decided today that I was going to re-read the run and within the first few issues I had some things to say. To start off with, the book felt much more like a Grant Morrison comic in the beginning than it currently does. If sentiment in the #149 discussion is anything to go by, a lot of other people think that too. When was the last time a line like "I feel like a Hindu sex god" was spouted by any of the characters. Does Grant's leaving perhaps have anything to do with Marvel wanting the X-men to just be the X-men, not pacifist philosophers?

And why is he leaving anyway? A recent interview with Marc Silvestri states that when MS was brought on for the future storyline, Grant didn't know it was going to be his last arc? I probably did, but did I miss a discussion of this somewhere?

Interestingly, Dust appears to be in Emma Frosts class in #115.

That is all. (For now)

Zoom.

Matthew Fluxington

23:27 / 29.11.03

He's leaving because his story is over.

I strongly doubt that Marvel imposed anything on Morrison's characterization, I think the story just progressed as it was intended. As I look back on New X-Men, it makes a lot of sense, and the shifts in tone were very intentional, and I think it is very endearing. Each story has a very different vibe - it was never intended to be a homogenized thing (though we definitely got that impression from the initial hype, but that's just hype and should be taken with a grain of salt, especially from Grant Morrison of all people), and that's cool with me.

I don't think you should take Marc's comments too seriously - all he's saying is that he didn't know anything, and it was all news to him.

It seems like this was always the conclusion that Grant was coming to, and if you look back, he's always said that it was a self contained story, that all loose ends would be tied up, and that he didn't think he'd be on longer than three years. If you read the recent interview with Grant on Comic Book Resources, he indicates that his story is complete, and it was always planned this way, and that he wasn't forced to change anything.

So yeah, I just think Silvestri was just doing his job and didn't know anything more than he needed to know, like a good professional.

11:00 / 30.11.03

Hmmm, now that you say that, I do remember somewhere reading that Grant wanted to do a big, crazy Magneto story and was disappointed that he couldn't with Magneto dead. I wonder if Xorn was meant to be Magneto all along though. In the annual, there seems to be a lot of extraneous stuff that wouldn't appear to have been needed if it was all a set up. Though, I suppose as set ups go, it's been a pretty elaborate one anyway. I think I'm going to have to finish re-reading them and then try to figure out what was part of the ser-up and what was genuine. Sublime, was he a pawn in Magneto's scheme? I'm beginning to think so.

Zoom.

14:18 / 30.11.03

>>>>I wonder if Xorn was meant to be Magneto all along though.<<<

Yes, he was. Ethan Van Sciver has said on this very message board that he knew from day one that Xorn was secretly Magneto, and if you go and read the reprinted proposal for Grant's run in the back of the "E is for Extinction" trade paperback, there are very definite references to the Xorn/Magneto story (which were later blacked out when they ran the proposal again in the back of the hardcover edition).

Regrettable Juvenilia

16:09 / 30.11.03

Interestingly, Dust appears to be in Emma Frosts class in #115.

Interestingly, the burka is a form of dress worn by a rather large number of women worldwide.

22:22 / 30.11.03

flyboy - oh, you're no fun.

That's really interesting to read, Cameron. I suppose it shows just how much Magneto put into the Xorn persona when you read issue #127 and try to reconcile it with Magneto now. Then again, it was all written for Prof. X's benefit anyway.

And what is it with Morrison and wheelchair-bound men? He cured (mostly) both Niles Caulder and Charles Xavier, but left Barbara Gordon in her chair. What does that mean?

(Tongue planted firmly in cheek, Barbeloids)

Zoom.

02:08 / 01.12.03

This is purely my own interpretation, so no blasting, but I don't really think much of the mystery of the Xorn/Magneto persona and its logistics (or much of the other "unrevealed" happenings of NXM) are going to be, or really need to be, explained.

Look at it this way: One of Morrison's great writing characteristics (or annoying ones, depending on how u want to see it) is to let the reader develop their own understanding of just what the hell has gone on, giving the story a multifarious applicability, and hence a dynamic interactiveness. Meaning, basically, he seems to encourage in his form and content one to have their own unique understanding of the story, and to eliminate authorial intention in favor of personal interpretation. And that's a very cool thing to do from a creative perspective b/c essentially he makes it possible for every reader to construct the fiction as complexly/simply as they imagine. So some ppl find that bothersome: you want to know EXACTLY what happened, sequence for sequence... but I like that we don't know exactly what Magnus went thru to get to the point where he could justify creating a philosophically opposing identity to his own, and BECOME that in an attempt to understand its flaws and destroy it... but find himself ultimately conflicted by its growth within his mind as an entity of equal influence compared to the original. It forced me to consider what could drive someone to that point... to understand these characters and understand their world... and be drawn into it wholeheartedly.

That's beyond skill and beyond talent. And for all the shit I may here for it, while Lee and Claremont really laid the defining foundation for these characters, NO ONE has given them life like Morrison. And that makes him their definitive creator to me.

21:55 / 01.12.03

Oooookkaaaayyyy. I've just finished reading the run up 'til #149. It really all hangs together, IMHO, as a whole than as parts, but I guess that's to be expected. While the stories are all self-contained, the way they bleed into each other lends much better to a long, episodic story, much like Animal Man. In this I'm comparing to Doom Patrol or JLA, where there are stories that stand alone and aside from character development contribute little to the overall arc.

Even the Magneto/Xorn thing appears more convincing upon re-reading a few bits, notably Magneto's first "conversation" with Charles in Planet X.

It makes sense, really, that Magneto is the big bad guy for the run. In fact, after reading them all again, the revelation at the end of Planet X part 1 was quite satisfying. I don't remember it being so when I first read it.

Am I in the minority in thinking this is one of Grant's least esoteric stories? I'm sure a lot could be inferred, but to me it's just a reiteration of the Invisibles message. We want a world where everyone is happy, even the enemy. The pacifist element is an understandable reaction to the world in which the story was written, even Wolverine becoming less aggressive (though not that much less!).

As usual, I'm not sure where I'm going with this. In Anarchy for the Masses, Grant says he's usually in best form when he's writing a straight ahead action comic, and I think New X-men can stand as proof positive of this. I'm not saying I agree, but it is a fairly kick-ass action movie, with a few philosophical elements thrown in. Much like an Invisibles-inspired blockbuster that shall remain nameless. I'm sure the Matrix (oops) parallels in "Assault on Weapon Plus" have been discussed, so I won't go into it.

(I feel like I'm writing an essay where I haven't even thought of what my thesis is and I don't really know the language well!)

I guess the big question is "What's he going to do next?" I'm sure the end of Planet X will be amazing, and the future storyline will probably be a little more outre than the rest of the run. But where next, Grant?

Matthew Fluxington

22:09 / 01.12.03

while Lee and Claremont really laid the defining foundation for these characters,

Lee? Jim Lee? Or Stan Lee?

Or maybe you really meant to say "John Byrne." Or even, "Louise Simonson."

gotham island fae

22:56 / 01.12.03

spoilers for Here Comes Tomorrow

I'm sure the end of Planet X will be amazing, and the future storyline will probably be a little more outre than the rest of the run.

With the three fates, HORUS, the Beast of Apocalypse and the Phoenix?

%maybe%

spoilers above

23:10 / 01.12.03

Incidentally, Cap'n, I'm sure I remember an ancient interview with Grant where he said he wanted to give Barbara Gordon back the use of her legs in JLA, but the editors wouldn't let him.

What does THAT mean?

00:07 / 02.12.03

Grant's out to heal the world?

But we all knew that already.

Zoom.

03:26 / 02.12.03

Sub-genres in New X-Men?

I've heard Grant and fans mention the sub-genres that Grant has covered in New X-Men. e.g. Murder at the Mansion is a murder-mystery, and Assault on Weapon Plus is like the big action movie. So what other arcs represent genres, in New X-Men?

Petar

gotham island fae

05:10 / 02.12.03

Not to espouse an unwanted horse (actually, yes), but wouldn't one conceiveably consider Fantomex a 'genre' unto oneSelf?

Ze's a national icon of sorts. Not to suggest that the French would be so simple as to accept a literary character as anything so strong an archetype as an 'icon', but Fantomex ain't no punk. Sorry.

Kinda like a James Bond, to use a similar, American-usurped 'icon'.

To say the super-equipped/prepared agent of unknown forces. Course, this is one of the things Grant brought into the X-Men, though when I first heard of him, I figured him for a funky, X-force rehash with a twist.

Nobody likes Fantomex = LongShot2

OK, the last line was a joke.

11:08 / 02.12.03

He's more like Gambit. But I hated Gambit when I were a lad.

'Riot...' is the amplified school story, with Quentin Quire as 'Just William' protagonist. See also - his gang of menaces, St. Trinian's psychic snobs, etc.

I think Fantomex intro arc was supposed to be a tribute to Grant's favourite Euro/Mexican comics; most obviously Fantomas and Diabolik stuff, which I've never read masen'.

'Imperial' is the Chris Claremont space-invader parable.

11:09 / 02.12.03

The faux French are a genre?

12:46 / 02.12.03

E is for Extinction = big budget suspense film

Germ Free Generation = creepy killer thriller?

Imperial = space invader parable

Fantomex Intro = Euro/Mex comics

New Worlds = episodic world tour?

Riot at Xavier's = after school rebellion story

Murder at the Mansion = mystery play

Assualt on Weapon Plus = even bigger budget action thriller/buddy comedy

Planet X = pulp fiction esque segmented story

Here Comes Tomorrow = nonlinear futureverse story

Matthew Fluxington

13:16 / 02.12.03

Planet X is obviously the mainstream superhero story/Silver Age homage.

15:32 / 02.12.03

And 'Here Comes Tomorrow' will be using the dystopian future template, most recently utilised for the 'Age of Apocalypse', and originating (in X-Men terms, that is) from 'Days of Future Past'.