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My so-called "friends & lovers"

 
 
Papess
17:06 / 24.11.03
I don't understand people who call themselves a friend and act like they care until you actually need a shoulder to cry on, or you need to bounce something off them for feedback. Or gawd forbid, you actually need some reassurance.

Is it just me? Are only the people I call my friends, assholes? Not all my friends...just the closest ones to me...the ones I did my training with!. I am sure they are out to fucking destroy me. It is like a set up. Things are going good, they do not mind talking to me...things are going bad for me...and they pretty much tell me to fuck off and deal with my own shit, they don't have the time for me!

Is it not okay, when one is in a terrible situation - and I am - to need to discuss it with those that supposedly love them? Isn't that what friend's do? I feel so deceived and cheated by these idiots that tell me they love me. These are friends? Is it too much trouble for a one friend to ask another to listen and give some supportive verbal discourse? People who supposedly, want to be free to love whomever they want and use this charade of spreading love and being all polyamorous-like, when the only person they seem to love is themself...never really giving anyone else the love that it takes to make the relationship actually mean something.

If everytime you needed to talk to your friend or lover and they basically told you "deal with it yourself" or even worse, try to make you feel as if you deserve all negative things that happen to you, tell you to fuck off and abruptly hang up on you, leaving you feeling crushed...what would you do? The next day they are acting all nice again....I am confused and feel totally fucked off with the manipulation.

Who am I supposed to trust? The people I have trusted the most in my life are all acting like this. Now I cannot even trust myself because of these choices for friends. It feels like they want to destroy me.

What happened to compassion and honesty...communication? All this fuckin' desensitization finally catch up to them? Is it so wrong to actually *need*...I mean..please...The only time you will stop *needing* is when you are dead.

So no, I don't buy this whole I-am-striving-for-my-enlightenment-and don't-need-anyone-or-anything attitude. It is irresponsible bullshit...a lousy excuse for people like this to only feel it necessary respond to themselves and feel thw don't "owe" you squat. What they are not realizing is they are still acting out their own needs and their denial of their needs by seducing you for a while, getting really close to you, (all the while you are fulfilling all their needs), they learn all your secrets and then when you actually need them, they treat you like a leper. Love means responsibility, doesn't it? I am fed up of these people making me feel like I am unevolved and inadequate because they can't handle the responsibility of doing what it takes to actually be a loving person to those that love them.

I am all broken...and yet I am faced with the responsibility of loving my son...who not only needs me, but is dependant on me! These are my friends...these idiots who jeopordize my functionability by kicking me when I am down...making parenting very, very difficult for me.


I mean...fuck magick and warriors and everything if you are just going to use it as an excuse to be an utter asshole...if you are just going to use chaos theory as an excuse to lie and deceive people in the most clever way you can, and all your kindness is just a sheath for the knife you will eventually stick in my back or stab me in the heart...well, you know what?...you can fuck off.


What is wrong with people? What is wrong with me? Why do I feel like I am such a complete loser because of these interactions? Is it just me? Am I such a freak for wanting to have caring, supportive and loving people around them to communicate honestly with? What is with the strange trend I see in people to totally deny they have any needs at all?
 
 
Bill Posters
17:12 / 24.11.03
Awwww.... Huggles, May. And good vibies, too. Don't let them bastards grind ya down, y'hear?
 
 
Papess
17:35 / 24.11.03
Thanks Bill. Why are strangers so much nicer?


Does anyone know if a person die from a broken heart? It can't be healthy.
 
 
gotham island fae
17:36 / 24.11.03
GODz, Trix. People suck. In that way that's not a good way.

Pardon while I speak from my posterior, keep your grain of salt handy...

Seems that a great deal of people are stuck on power and control issues. Living in a world where individuals have very little actual control over their own lives, a large number of folk make up for that with petty, ultimately-unfulfilling (I hope) manipulation of other unfortunate humans. To show that one needs is to admit that powerlessness that drives some to such destructive-to-others behaviors.

I wish I had any words for you regarding how these people you trusted were able to get you by the sensitive hairs and tug.

I guess my only advice is to pop the fuckers in a pie and feed them to their friends and relations, Andronicus-stylee.
 
 
bitchiekittie
18:05 / 24.11.03
aw, may. no, you're not alone, just about everyone allows unworthy types to bring them down at some point or another.

I'm sorry you're being continually disappointed...maybe you need to get away from whatever group of folks you've got around you and get a fresh start
 
 
Papess
18:11 / 24.11.03
Frater Fae, thanks.

The part about polyamory is really bothering me. It really sucks when people decide they don't want monogamy but seem to think that means they can just do whatever the F**K they please
 
 
Cheap. Easy. Cruel.
18:45 / 24.11.03
Sorry to hear that May, some people suck. *hugs May* It hurts to have someone you thought you could depend on sell you short. Just remember that which does not kill you only makes you stranger.

The whole polyamory thing kind of bothers me. All of the people I have known who practiced it appeared to be very selfish. They had problems making a committment. No matter how much they would spout about love and wanting to love everybody, they appear to be grasping to fulfill some deep-seated inadequacy. Those are just my observations.
 
 
gotham island fae
19:54 / 24.11.03
The 'freedom' of polyamory tends to cloud the vision of many of its newly enamoured practitioners, yes. The radical, swingin' lifestyle that people see doesn't often include the responsibility that is inherent to successfully living it. Which is particularly annoying to me, as the "I'm polyamorous cause that means I can do whatever I want with whoever I want whenever I want" camp stains the good name of something I feel has tremendous opportunity to foster healthy and supportive relationships.

I'm also annoyed cause it hurts you specifically, May.

That's it, into the pies with the lot of 'em!
 
 
that
20:34 / 24.11.03
I can't say it any better than it's already been said, so here's some *hugs* and good vibes instead.
 
 
Papess
22:01 / 24.11.03
Thank you everyone for all your good vibes and hugs and even those people who did not post but still offered me some kindness through PM, email and IM.

I can't stop crying because all the love inside me has gone sour. I want to be able to love, but I can't feel anything other than despair. How am I supposed to parent like this? I am a mess.

This is the thing, when you hurt someone, you hurt those around them too. Love begets love..at least that makes sense to me.


BK: In some ways, I really do wish I was alone. What a bloody shame that so many people have felt this way.

Steelwelder: Just remember that which does not kill you only makes you stranger....Well, you made me smile with that, thanks.

Frater Fae: I don't think I want to waste a good pie!

Cholister: You are so lovely, thank you.


I really must bump that Polyamory thread up with some mind-bogglingly good discussion and debate on the fine art of negotiations and cognitive evolution.
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
22:54 / 24.11.03
yes you must, that'll take your mind off--

er.

okay, how about some hugs instead?

*big hugs*,

you'll get through this, you will.

And if people are consistently behaving like arseholes, then they're not worth your love. there'll be gangs of people out there who *will* appreciate you as you deserve.

healing/stregth-giving energy to you...
 
 
Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo
03:32 / 25.11.03
If you lived near me I'd share some pie with you.

And I don't share pie.
 
 
Lilly Nowhere Late
05:59 / 25.11.03
poor May. I send you loads of maternal starlike love to grasp and share with your son.
You could die of a broken heart, but you shouldn't. Especially not because then your
son would inherit said broken heart and the cycle would go on and on.

I don't personally buy all the poligamy or Pollymademedoit stuff. I also don't believe that
many people are above being total shit to each other. But children are never shit to anyone,
until they are about 11, so do remember you are lucky to have someone near you who at this point
is probably incapable of being shit to you.

Wanna have a mom and baby outing? Anytime my dear.

all best wishes
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
06:05 / 25.11.03
Ah shit, May, that's terrible. I don't really have much to add, except to concur that yes, a lot of the time people are complete and utter self-serving bastards. Which wouldn't be so bad if they came right out and admitted to it.
 
 
illmatic
07:04 / 25.11.03
Sorry to hear your having a rough time, may. Hope the Barb love goes some way to relieving it.

Funny, I was having a conversation about polyamory with a friend in the pub last night - probably as a spin off from that thread. The conclusion we both reached was that you'd have to be tremendously sorted to make such a combination of relationships work. By which I don't mean that your not, but perhaps some of the people around you aren't. Best wishes anyway.
 
 
foot long subbacultcha
07:08 / 25.11.03
Please don't take this horribly, but.. sometimes, sometimes, when a friend tells you to deal with something yourself, or implies that you brought something on yourself, even if they're wrong, you should listen to them carefully.
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
10:08 / 25.11.03
Does anyone know if a person die from a broken heart? It can't be healthy.
Nope. Because I'm still here. As will you be. Buck up, buttercup! Better times, and better drinks await thee.
 
 
Squirmelia
11:14 / 25.11.03
>The whole polyamory thing kind of bothers me. All of the people I >have known who practiced it appeared to be very selfish.

I am going to own up to being a poly-something-or-other-ist, so almost think I should defend such things, but I am actually indeed very selfish. I do not think selfishness is restricted to those that are polyamorous though, and that most people are pretty selfish really, and should probably all die, or something.

Hope things get better though.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
12:32 / 25.11.03
I don't really know what to say as I'm entirely unclear with regards to what's going on and I don't want to presume anything but... people can be shit and sometimes you just don't know until they're nasty to you. The thing about friends is that even when they want to scream pull yourself together a lot of them will pretend cloying sympathy. It can be for the best or perhaps all of those people are trying to be honest with you. All I want to say is that I hope you feel better soon and if they are that bad, dump 'em all and find some other people who actually want to know you.
 
 
bitchiekittie
13:26 / 25.11.03
I have to agree with tryphena, and go a bit farther and say that sometimes your very best friends are the ones that are harsh with you. obviously, I don't know what's happened, so I might be way off the mark, but it's possible that your friends are just frustrated with your situation and the way you're handling it. people who love you DO want to shake the hell out of you when you put yourself through torment, because they don't like to see you hurting.

but if that's not the case, again, I'm sorry that people are being shit to you, and either way I hope you get through this soon
 
 
pomegranate
14:18 / 25.11.03
hugs to you may. you are not alone in yr friend troubles. most people have been let down by those they trusted one time or many. people are disappointing. don't take it personally.
 
 
gravitybitch
14:32 / 25.11.03
Argh. Without details, it's pretty much impossible to offer advice. "Sometimes, people are horrible and just don't care, other times they're horrible but they're trying to help..."

I think it was a friend of mine who coined the term "polyfuckery" - for those folk who are interested in sex with a variety of people but aren't interested in the work it takes to sustain real relationships. It's really sad that you're in a group that seems to espouse polyamory while practicing polyfuckery. Wish I could help other than to provide you with a new box to stuff those people into...
 
 
Cheap. Easy. Cruel.
18:33 / 25.11.03
All of the people I have known who practiced it appeared to be very selfish.

Oh my, that came out all wrong. I did not mean to imply that anyone here is particularly selfish, or that people in general are not. I meant it more in the general sense of, "They are all shite, dear, you're too good for them! Buck up!"
 
 
Papess
21:12 / 25.11.03
I would like to thank all of you lovely people for being supportive.

I am really wiped out and I am trying to get myself together so I can go to work. Reading your encouraging words is very helpful to get me going.

Personally, I am baffled as to why other people are shits. This was entirely a learned behavior for me. It doesn't come very naturally for me, unless of course you are totally threatening my loved ones or myself.

Just a word on polyfuckery for Iszabelle (and anyone else interested):

I consider myself more polyfuckerous, as in - I perfer to have consentual sex without emotional entanglements...as you can tell, I do have trust issues and don't wish to let too many people in my life that would have access to possibly fucking me over.

Polyfuckerous is a terrible term and is used as derogatory by some polyamourists. However, if you are engaging in something that is consentual, and everyone is aware of the agreement - in this case, that everyone involved wishes to have a sexual experience without the headache of emotional ties, is fine. The point about responsibility I make is that if make an agreement, stick to it. If you know your relationship is just sex - fine, no judgements...but make sure that the other person is clear on this. You may even have a certain love for the person you are being polyfuckerous with, but I am of the opinion that there are many types of love and the homogenousness that is employed by some polyamorists doesn't sit well with me. I cannotlove everyone even-handedly. Can anyone? I don't even think a Buddha does, except in the sense that we all share the same fate and are sentient. (Death and Breath)

It is deception and the subsequent misleading which is what I have a problem with, whether in polyamory or in polyfucker...or hell, even in monogamy. It is the negotiations you make with people through PROPER, HONEST COMMUNICATION that count the most. This gives people a clear assessment of how much time and energy to invest in the relationship so they are not wasting their precious life.

Maybe a better term for the considerate polyamorous would be polycoitus....oh dear, when did I start writing history?
 
 
Papess
21:15 / 25.11.03
a better term for the considerate polyamorous would be polycoitus

Arrgh! I meant polyfuckerous = polycoitus

Also...those of you who sent me PM's, thank you. I will be responding to them tomorrow as I am out the door right now.

Thank you all
 
 
HCE
23:07 / 25.11.03
I'm still unclear on the exact difference between being polyamorous and simply being single. I don't really know you but the distress you describe sounds very close to home at the moment, so for what it's worth, I hope that you are able to put some distance between yourself and these people who don't seem to be keeping up their end of the bargain. I can't say I've ever known anybody to find peace of mind without a bit of breathing room. Best wishes to you.
 
 
gravitybitch
00:24 / 26.11.03
Poly-whatever implies that you're actively having sex with more than one person, while "being single" doesn't make any statement about your social/sexual life.

Differentiating between poly -amory and -fuckery can be a little tricky... As May points out, much of the distinction depends on honesty (usually self-honesty) and intent.

And, just to make things clear, I hadn't intended for my description of polyfuckery to sound as derogatory as it now does! My apologies, and I hope I didn't offend anybody! I'm somewhere between the -amory and -fuckery myself, in that I have relationships I value highly in which sex is an active (and important!) element, and I'd be more devastated if the relationship itself collapsed than if we stopped having sex; but I'm a "side dish"/secondary partner in these relationships and I'm starting to look for a primary partner of my own with chemistry equal to what's present in these other relationships (which involves a bit of testing and tasting and -fuckery).
 
 
Quantum
09:26 / 26.11.03
Sympathy to you May, bake 'em in a pie.
"Love means responsibility, doesn't it?" May
Yup. It sounds to me like you feel sorted enough to successfully polyamorise, but that your partners aren't (which is my main problem with polyamory). They espouse the ideals but then don't practise them, nyet? Nice in theory, difficult in practice...
More people involved=diffused responsibility. You cannot feel the same connection to five people as you do to one, people don't work like that.

That of course is one of the advantages of close friends you don't have sex with, they're more likely to be supportive and sympathetic and less likely to be a part of the problem.
 
 
Adam Shame
21:30 / 26.11.03
"Love is the Law, Love under Will"

More advice from The Great Beast,"Sacrifice the fools and the liars"
 
 
Papess
16:09 / 27.11.03
Thank you both, fred and Quantum

I am unsure as to whether I am willing to be a poly person or not. It sounds lovely but it also sounds complicated. I do not need more complications!! I am going over to the Head Shop to continue discussion on ploy-(name your poison).

Adam: Interesting. I have a question for you, maybe two. What happens if a fool and a liar meet up? Torch them both? Oh yes, I do have another one...Wasn't Crowley both a fool and a liar himself?
 
  
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