Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.

Underground > Conversation >

Familial Advice, Please

gotham island fae

17:50 / 21.11.03

Okay, Barbelith. I have a request for help.

My sis and I are in the midst of a family... "revelation period". Without giving out the personal details, she and I are beginning to build ties with friends that we see as extending our 'family'. This action is being perceived as a preference over our 'real' family by our blood relatives.
The fact of the matter is that our family has shown and said that the decisions we are making in our lives are either incomprehensible to them or immoral. Both sides (my sis and I v. the rest) have stated that we don't love the other any less for the discrepancy. Regardless of the fact that we still love our mother, grandfather and the rest, we must also provide for ourselves the emotional support that everyone needs for a healthy life experience. As our family has shown that they are incapable/unwilling to provide that support for our actions, we must find it elsewhere, amongst adopted family. That's what we are trying to do in the choices that the family sees as divisive.

Basically, my question is how to deal with family 'break-ups' when neither side wants the division that seems inevitable and both sides tend to see the others' actions as the cause.

Is King Solomon in the house?

20:26 / 21.11.03

The difficulty is that what you've posted is so generalised that it's only possible to give very generalised advice. And generalised advice always sounds pretty lame. E.g. I could say something like

"It's important to take responsibility for your own actions, and know your boundaries. You can't change how people feel about you, you can only change yourself"

But how smug would that sound? I can understand you not wanting to give a lot of detail, but there's a certain amount of detail you need to give before it's possible to make a meaningful response.

Goodness Gracious Meme

23:57 / 21.11.03

i'll get back to you when i figure it out.

13:05 / 22.11.03

I just pretend I'm an orphan until something awful happens. Call me Ishmael.

14:03 / 22.11.03

I've never been through an actual break myself, and those in my family who have just manage to carry around a lot of hurt and anger after the fact.

the only advice I can give that I've actually used myself is this: don't hold onto being angry and hoping for an apology or any claim to responsibility. most likely, it will never come. make a conscious effort to let it go, no matter how impossible that might seem. it might take years to happen, but once it does, you'll be amazed at how much impact that little give can make in your life.

I held onto anger and resentment since my childhood, and a fairly recent acceptanace of the past, and of the fact that no one was ever going to say "I fucked up, Im sorry" has made a big change for me.

in any event, good luck to you and your family.

14:53 / 22.11.03

I've gotten the, "I fucked up, I'm sorry." It doesn't help.

gotham island fae

15:24 / 22.11.03

Thanks, yeah.

Not to suggest that I am miles more enlightened than others in my family, but I don't and won't blame anyone. I recognize that acceptance and forgiveness are the only totally viable avenues to pursue in these things, difficult as it can be. My sis and I are doing well on that path in our own right regarding our own past history. That's a lucky thing, cause the fundi-Xristian impulse in my mother's family is HULK-strong. She and I are very close to being the Wonder Twins once again, set to face a gathering of relative super-villains who are the anti-thesis of your peaceful mutant philosophies.

I know time will heal wounds and cause bruises to fade. Isn't gonna make Thanksgiving any easier.

18:03 / 22.11.03

Relatives are often, as a rule, a royal pain in the ass. Add complicating factors such as divorce, remarrying, religious tunnel vision, etc. to complicate things. Don't forget nagging and guilt trips. Stir and keep at a steady boil...

I would say that the "make your own family"/new tribalism thing is the way to go. So many folks come from unhappy/dysfunctional/suffocating/etc. families that its really the only way to cope. I know I do. There are still some blood relations I keep in touch with, but the ones who've made it their lifes mission to annoy me are kept out of the loop. Let them make each other miserable, that's what I say.

20:18 / 22.11.03

Oh Pachinko, indeed.

People take each other for granted, especially family. They think that you are always going to be there to accept their bullshit, and repeated attempts to fuck you over oh-so-subtley, or quite blatantly. However, I have found this is also possible in choosen families.

Of course, an asshole is an asshole whether they are blood or not, it is just that we have expectations of those we call "family", and "lover", as well as "friend". In just the same way we have expectations about how our colleagues, boss or subordinates should act...

This is causing a bt of a meltdown neurally, for me.

Commerce is creating the current model for interpersonal relations? Hmm, is that it? Is that what family and relationships are all based on?

If we seek to remove expectations (as defined by the role each person plays in our life), from our personal relationships would we be able to alleviate this or would it cause further confusion by creating a homogeneric quality to our relationships and very little discrepancy between them?

Oh hell...someone stop me..I am bordering on fundamentalism.

Like I said, this is causing me a minor meltdown here. Isn't there a hotline I can call?

gotham island fae

20:30 / 22.11.03

I would say that the "make your own family"/new tribalism thing is the way to go.

Amen. Exactly what the sis and I are about. That's what we're showing and attempting to say. Without saying that the way they (my sis' and I's family) have chosen is WRONG. It's basically hoping to foster amongst my relationz the understanding of non-acceptance that isn't rejection. Our MAMA is the one that Will eventually see our view-point. I ain't bettin' on any o' the others. (Though my uncle has potential to...)

May Trix, you make my head bleed. Thankz.

21:23 / 22.11.03

heh..From what...my bad spelling? Choosen?

Frater Fae, you may be interested in this thread on polyamory. There might be some useful links for you. I really like the last one that BiP posted, but I haven't had to time nor the rigour to post in HS in response to it.

My head bleeds too and the onions are making me cry.

gotham island fae

22:11 / 22.11.03

Yep, yep, YUP! Polyamory's what it's all about! I wonder at the intellectu-cution that is missed by Barbelithites lost in their thoughts...

[/I have wished to say something productive in the mentioned thread numerous times. As I have rarely posted in the head shop and this topic is more personal than the trans-agenda I keep, I am still anxious to put my typed words there.]

Goodness Gracious Meme

09:55 / 24.11.03

okay, feeling slightly more productive than before. and thanks for starting this, FF, as i'm in similar mould atm.

My family is dysfunctional from the ground up, and I'm only gradually recognising the extent of this...(which has been massively liberating, actually, as one some level i think i thought the problems were all my fault for years...)

My parents(dad and s-mum) are also massively(or perhaps my dad is) wedded to the *idea* of a close family. So we spend (compared to my main social circles) alot of time together but it's usually very tense and we don't relate/connect.

This on both sides, my sis and I don't tell them much about our lives, they tell us very little about theirs(to the extent that it appears that they may now be splitting up but aside from arguing over dinner out, they're not saying anything...)

This has been massively stressful but i'm trying to accept that there are some things i can't change/it isn't my right/problem... And that there's only so much I and they are able to do. Atm, it feels like we're trying to do the work and they aren't, but it's been the other way round as well.

so now, i'm trying to let go of the *idea* of family connection i've been brought up with, and disconnect from them while i work through some of the old family stuff.

(my sister, simiarly, moved to the other end of the country during her mid 20's, and said it was massively useful not to *have* to spend time with them, and made them value them in different ways. an option? that way you don't actually have to 'formally' divorce them! )

i'm hoping that i can either 'come back' with a different attitude, or be separated enough that if it doesn't work, it won't be as painful.

recognising that i've made my own life/circles of support/friendship/family has been very useful to me.

hope this is useful.

(ps, this is hard, so give yourself time/space/credit. my counsellor suggested that the 'separating from your parents/seeing their frailties' thing is something that developmentally often happens in late 30s/early40s, ie when parents perhaps become dependents... and that doing this shift earlier on is tough.)

10:30 / 24.11.03

"They say the family of the twenty-first century is made up of friends, not relatives- but that could just be bollocks" Daisy Steiner, Spaced season 2
I have found that keeping disturbing truths from your parents et al is definitely a sound strategy (unless it all gets revealed in a cataclysmic fight) otherwise they just worry about you and thus give you loads of hassle to relieve their worry.

There's too much emphasis on total honesty etc. these days, sometimes you have to lie to keep the peace.

Tryphena Absent

10:43 / 24.11.03

Slightly offtopic, sorry!

my counsellor suggested that the 'separating from your parents/seeing their frailties' thing is something that developmentally often happens in late 30s/early40s, ie when parents perhaps become dependents... and that doing this shift earlier on is tough

I was reading an article the other day about people who separate from their parents earlier and it gave me the impression that it's not that uncommon. I knew a girl who went through this process very young, in her mid-teens. Her mother was a paranoid schizophrenic attempting to regain custody and I think it just made her separate herself from the whole family. The fact that it's not uncommon makes me question the 'developmental' idea of this separation- I don't think, for example, that my mother ever went through this process with her father but I suspect she did with her mother and at quite an early age. I can't help but wonder if it isn't always painful but that people in their late 30's/early 40's just have more things to deal with at the same time, things like their own children?

Goodness Gracious Meme

13:26 / 24.11.03

"developmentally" was the wrong word, mine not hers.

I think what i meant to say is that usually by the time we're doing separation stuff we have other very well-established identities/supports/lots of other things going on, so it's less likely to be a 'swamping' experience...