BARBELITH underground
 

Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.


Captain Britain

 
 
Char Aina
11:05 / 19.11.03
i was wondering...
have any of you ever read much captain britain?
are there any stories to be recomende, and any to be steered well clear of?
i know moore wrote some, and i assume that its good, but is there anything else?

its a character i fancied playing with in my own head at least, but one i have not read too much of.
 
 
sleazenation
11:38 / 19.11.03
Opps looks like another mod deleted the thread i was just replying to- and i put a request in to delete this thread as a duplicate - ah well - don't delete this one too!

as i was saying on the other thread.
..
There is only really one Capt Britain collection that i am aware of and that collect's the work of Moore and Davis - its quite interesting and fun but is hardly essential - i believe it also has the first appearence of Psylocke... and if memory serves Chris Claremont was so impressed with Moore's work he brought it into his X-men continuity...

Unless you are also talking about team books that Capt Britain appeared in - in which case i'd have to stick up for Knights of Pendragon Vol 1. A fun, literate eco thriller. Printed on environmentally 'safe' paper KoP covered the struggle between the elemental force of nature, as embodied in the pendragon spirit, and the elemental spirit of pollution, as embodied by the spirit of the Bane. I would try to explain it more but doing that just makes the whole thing sound trite and ridiculous... well, as trite and ridiculous as any superhero comic...
 
 
dlotemp
11:58 / 19.11.03
The Captain Britain strip has has a long and erratic history, first beginning in the mid-70s. It is generally agreed that Alan Moore's run is the highlight of the character, and it can easily be found in TPB form. But...there was another collection printed of the Delano and Alan Davis run, which directly followed Moore's run. This collection was printed in the late 80s. The stuff is okay. Some fun episodes. Delano expands upon the Meggan character and Psylocke has one of her early maulings during this period. I purchased and read both collections within a month of each other and the Delano runs suffers from ambition. He tries really hard to follow up on Moore's work and denies his own style. A pity. Not bad, just not great.
 
 
Dan Fish - @Fish1k
12:42 / 19.11.03
CB was introduced in the UK his own weekly/fortnightly series in 1976. Early issues introduced much of the cast, Dai Thomas, Betsy, and more. The dynamic was very much like Spider-man of around the same time, Brian was a university student, there was a school bully type, etc. The early Claremont/Trimpe stories are cute, but very much of their time. The series ran 39 issues.

There were a couple of issues of 'Marvel Team Up' featuring Cap, Spider-man and Arcade, in which Brian Braddock shares a flat with Peter Parker for a while. John Byrne did the artwork

After his own comic was cancelled, 'Super Spider-man featuring Captain Britain' continued the story, then reprinted the team-up issues. A 'Captain Britain Summer Special' also reprinted the story.

He then appeared as a guest star in a Black Knight strip in Hulk Weekly. This led into the new adventures, by Dave Thorpe, and then Alan Moore. The Alan Moore issues were finally made available a couple of years ago, these are a cracking alternate-earth adventure.

(By the way, there was one page missing - get yourself over to my website to see this!)

Jamie Delano and Alan Davis then took over the strip, these used to be available in trade as mentioned above. This is a really nice collection in my opinion.

There were a few guest appearances in X-Men, leading up to Betsy joining as Psylocke. Claremont intended to do a sequel to Moore's stuff after X-Men 200, but when Moore fell out with Marvel, the epic was re-written and evolved into the Fall of the Mutants and Mutant Massacre crossovers.

Then Excalibur happened. The first 24 odd issues, plus Alan Davis' run (42-67) are pretty good, then Warren Ellis did his thing leading up to and through 100. Ben Raab wrapped up the series with 124. A lot of this stuff should be avoided.
 
 
Char Aina
14:01 / 19.11.03
did any of them explore the different issues of national identity that a captain britain would naturally have?
i mean, captain america has an american dream, captain britain has the BNP...

i thought he might be an interesting tool with which to explore fascism and nationalism.
 
 
sleazenation
14:08 / 19.11.03
Again, from what I recall its really bean Britain's other national hero in the Marvel universe, Union Jack that has delt with issues of BRitish nationalism in the past and even there i can only recall it occuring in a single issue of Marvel Comics presents (issue 43 off the top of my head but i could be drastically wrong - same issue had a coleen wing/misty knight story and a bob layton cover...)
 
 
Sax
14:32 / 19.11.03
British nationalism was exactly what my Union Jack pitch to Marvel's dodo'd Epic line was all about, aksherly.
 
 
Dan Fish - @Fish1k
14:36 / 19.11.03
I re-read the old Union Jack stories in Captain America recently - I wonder, was the character intended to be gay? He was introduced as the 'chum' of the original UJ's grandson, it seemed more than a little suggestive to me.

I seem to recall he had a fling with the woman in Knights of Pendragon.
 
 
dlotemp
23:38 / 19.11.03
toksik-

Good questions. I think if you read the Alan Moore run you'll see that political identity is one of the subjects he's touching upon. The main antagonist - Jaspers - is fairly in the neo-fascist mode that some people prescribe to Margaret Thatcher. Meanwhile, Captain Britain is struggling to understand his place in a greater world, a man gifted with superpowers that once meant something. Again, I'd posit that it doesn't take much to say that there is analogy between CB's crisis and Britain's own perplexing identity as a super power that once ruled a fair portion of the world. Meanwhile, Jaspers own reality warping powers are driving him both bonkers and domineering, perhaps read as the national trauma retained after Britain's fall as a world power.

I'm sure much of this is conjecture. I've never read a political intrepretation of Moore's CB stuff. Furhtermore, I'm not British so nuances to British national identity escape me. But it seemed obvious to me that Alan Moore was trying to understand the changing political identity of Britain through the story.

Also, Warren Ellis has an interesting assessment of CB and Captain America in issue #102 of EXCALIBUR. To wit, CB feels that he never enjoyed the popularity of Captain America because "It's not in the British to love anyone that unconditionally."
 
 
houdini
14:21 / 20.11.03

I would say that Moore & Delano's turns on Captain Britain are both "political" in the same way that Claremont's best work on X-Men was political: When Claremont did all that stuff with the NSA and the President funding Project: Wideawake and greenlighting Shaw Industries to producte Sentinels and so on, it was definitely in the realm of superhero fiction, still, but there was also an implicit level of criticism going on. Mutants are, of course, the Mighty Marvel Metaphor for everything, and issues like Project: Wideawake, the Mutant Registration Act, the trial of Magneto before the UN, and so on allowed Claremont (and other writers) to look at aspects of the real world without getting involved in direct political commentary. When Genosha was run by humans it was a stand-in for South Africa. When it was run by mutants it was a stand-in for Israel.

Overall in Captain Britain this "political" aspect is a matter of the tone of the series. The first episode I ever read as a kid was where Linda McQuillan, the superhero Captain UK who has fled her reality after the death of all of the superheroes there at the hands of the Fury, comes to Braddock Manor to warn Captain Britain that the Fury has followed her to his dimension. Cap and the Special Executive are gathered round the TV, watching Sir James Jaspers give what amounts to an anti-superhuman hate speech. Moore took the deathcamp imagery that Claremont and Byrne had created in 'Days of Futures Past' and upped it a notch, describing the filth, the brutality of the guards, the fleas and disease. More radically, these death-camps weren't set in a nightmarish future run by soulless machines. They were set in Britain, right (t)here in the 1980's. As a kid, I definitely found it striking, to say the least.
There's also a good section in the Delano run where Thatcher closes down S.T.R.I.K.E, the British equivalent of S.H.I.E.L.D, and replaces them with the rather more thuggish Resources Control Executive (RCX). The RCX come to Braddock Manor to recruit the Captain to serve as their national figurehead. When he says that he won't get involved with politics they try to convince him by invoking the breakdown of national identity that Britain is undergoing. He replies that he's empowered to be a hero, not a symbol of someone else's political ideology.

It's this ideological split which causes Brian to (temporarily) give up being Captain Britain and puts the mantle on Betsy's shoulders in time for some pretty brutal treatment at the hands of Slaymaster. (Interestingly, this last bit, which is often attributed to Delano, was actually written by Alan Davis himself, who handled the book on his own for the last few issues. I often think Davis is underrated as a writer-artist, although admittedly he's had some misfires.)

Is it any good? Well, it's certainly no 'Marvelman', which you have to remember Moore was already working on. But, yeah, for high-quality retro '80's gonzo darkside superhero surrealism, I think it's pretty damn cool.
 
 
Dan Fish - @Fish1k
08:11 / 02.02.04
For those that might be interested, Alan Moore & David Lloyd's Special Executive intro stories are up on my website.

(the Special Executive were supporting characters in Moores CB stories)
 
 
pvodra
16:05 / 02.02.04
Hey Fish, the Special Executive zip files don't seem to be valid. WinZip complains when I try to open them.
 
 
Dan Fish - @Fish1k
17:54 / 02.02.04
Sorry about that - they should be fixed now
 
 
Spaniel
12:16 / 03.02.04
Anyone else keen on the direction (if not entirely happy with the execution) Davies and Claremont took our Captain during their respective Excalibur runs. Brian Braddock slid so effortlessly into arrogance, self absorption and alcoholism. In a time where most superheroes had a next to no personality, Captain Britain was flying into whisky fuelled rages, having it off behind his girlfriend's back and wallowing in narcissistic depression.

When Brian Braddock punched someone in the face it was because he was pissed off.

Good stuff.
 
 
houdini
13:37 / 03.02.04

John Byrne once wrote that after Alan Moore showed everyone with Watchmen that the audience would warm to heroes with feet of clay, half of the companies out there seemed to make their heroes "clay from the waist down". (This was when Byrne was still writing Next Men and I had a bit more respect for him, but I digress.)

What was a bit hard to swallow in Claremont's treatment of CB in Excalibur was that everyone else *did* have these sanitized personalities. Which made Cap seem like a real brat - a drunk, a klutz, a good for nothing.

For me, the best run on that whole book was when Alan Davis returned for about a dozen issues in the 40's and 50's. He did a lot of work to undo the damage caused by Claremont's worst excesses and the Lobdell run (about which the less said the better -- back in the early '90's Scott Lobdell was the Chuck Austin of the day). He gave all of the characters personalities and he even thought up a purpose for the book and rather skillfully retconned it in.

And he was funny.

And then after issue #56 or somen't he left and Marvel replaced him with ... Scott Lobdell.

Which was about the time that I dropped all the X-books, so I don't know if things got better after that.

Anyway. The rumour mill has it that Marvel are re-starting an 'Excalibur' title with Claremont & Davis as the creative team. I won't buy it, but I will flip through it on the shelves.

Can't say fairer than that.
 
 
adamswish
14:47 / 03.02.04
I have two memories of Captain Britain. The obvious, red, white and blue rip off of Captain America, but before that the darker, lionheart emblemmed chap with the big club.

Anyone remember the first incarnation of the Captain?
 
 
Haus of Mystery
19:24 / 03.02.04
Excalibur/Captain Britain are SCREAMING for a re-make/re-model. Such juicy characters. And their base is a lighthouse.
 
 
The Falcon
19:31 / 03.02.04
%%%%%%%%I'm sure Chris Claremont will do something audacious with his new Excalibur title.%%%%%%%%
 
 
houdini
19:49 / 03.02.04

Actually, (and exhibiting more Captain Britain trivia than is healthy here) Chris Claremont was the writer who came up with the original concept when asked to create a "point-man" for Marvel UK. It's the same character, although originally his powers were in that golden staff thingie he lugged around.

When Alan Davis took over drawing Captain Britain (in whichever Marvel UK monthly it was then in -- I forget) he decided to ditch the costume because
(i) he thought it was ugly, and
(ii) it's not really "British" so much as just Enlgish.

So he changed the costume. And then he and Moore made a big splash with the Jasper's Warp storyline, which basically riffed off of two of Claremont's old stories - Days of Futures Past and the Proteus storyline, both from early Claremont/Byrne issues of Uncanny, and Claremont got wind of it and wanted to play with the characters again so he started putting them in X-Men Annuals and then he dreamed up Excalibur.

It's quite an incestuous pedigree.
 
 
Aertho
20:03 / 03.02.04
Their base WAS lighthouse. Like all HQ's, it was blown up in an early 40s issue, and then destroyed but good in 50. They all moved to Braddock Manor, but when Alan Davis finally ended his run, Scott Lobdell took over ...and somehow, the lighthouse was rebuilt. They turned Cap Britain into a weird "Brittanic" thing, sent Phoenix BACK into the timestream, moved AGAIN to Muir Island, ignored the actual WEIRD characters like Feron, Micromax, and Kylun, and I left when they made Cerise a Shi'Ar fugitive.

I loved Excalibur. It was my favorite X-book of the franchise, and it might have been BECAUSE it was so far from the pack. I thought it was tight and smart, though not in the league with Morrison's NXM...

I always imagined an Excalibur relaunch, done with actual British mutants built around the Braddock estate. Granted, Kurt was the most effective leader, but Invisibles taught us those things NEED to be fluid. I'd love a roster that includes Meggan, Cap, a ressurrected Psylocke, and the three weirdos. But that WON'T be the case, I'm sure. We'll probably get Kitty acting tough, Nightcrawler acting pacifist, Cap acting stupid, Meggan acting stupider, and Psylocke acting slutty. That's if they don't pull Rachel Summers out of Limbo.
 
 
I'm Rick Jones, bitch
21:18 / 03.02.04
New Excalibur books gonna focus on Proffessor X, apparently.
 
 
Benny the Ball
18:37 / 20.03.07
I'm bumping this partly because I saw this;

Captain Britain

But also because I'd never seen the thread before, and was reminded by the best find thread about the fact that I got an entire run (from origin all the way through spider-man and monthly) of Captain Britain comics. The first batch, collected in the above book, are fantastic old school monster and magic comics, some really beautiful art and some generally fun storys - I'd highly recommend them along the same lines as people recommending the Marvel Showcase and DC Presents books.

The later collected books, Alan Moore/Jamie Delano and Alan Davis books are also fantastic.

Captain Britain stopped working as a character about 20 issues into Excalibur though.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
19:18 / 20.03.07
I'm quite intrigued by this Warren Ellis run on 'Excailbur'; if it's not too traumatic, would anyone care to expand on what it was like?
 
 
sleazenation
19:31 / 20.03.07
Haus is the person to ask when it comes to questions about Excalibur...
 
 
The Falcon
20:02 / 20.03.07
I wrote quite glowingly about Warren's Excalibur in his best of thread, but actually having reread the things since it's all a bit. Embarrassing.

The art's - well, I think art had to legally look like that in the mid to late 90's for some reason, like a kind of washed-out, sub-Image thing. I recently had the displeasure of looking at the - occasionally thoroughly decent, on Thunderbolts and War Journal anyhow - Mike Deodato art in Milligan's Elektra recently if only to confirm this belief. And so the comics, which were probably my first Ellis ones, and seemed really quite transgressive and radical to a young(ish) Vertigo and X-Men reader are pretty much unreadable, at least for any sustained period of time.
 
 
Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
21:30 / 20.03.07
The important thing to know about the Ellis run of Excalibur is that a hard drinking hard smoking and hard sexing character by the name of Pete Wisdom was added to the book. As you can tell, Mr Ellis was going against type yet again. A fucking visionary.

Actually though, I kind of liked it, if only for the conversation in a bar that went:

Wisdom: Give me a whiskey
Barkeep: You be wantin' ice in that?(I am paraphrasing the bad Scottish accent she was meant to have)
Wisdom: What do I look like, some kind of pervert?

The man knows about whiskey, I give him that.
 
 
The Falcon
21:43 / 20.03.07
To be honest, Wisdom is actually about the first appearance of that Ellis-archetype, and clearly stems from a hot, hot desire to write John Constantine, Hellblazer (+ faceknives.) Which he did later, and then there was all that fuss, and the fairly inscrutable issue of Planetary about it.

The current Wisdom series, by Doctor Who author/scripter Paul Cornell, is actually about as close to a (proto-)Vertigo comic as you're likely to ever see from either a)Marvel or b)the 21st Century, and I'd have thought perfect Barbelith guff, really. Better investigating that than the Ellis Excalibur, I say. (Also features gruff & uncomplaining Captain Midlands.)
 
 
Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
03:01 / 21.03.07
Ah, thank you for the correction. I read the Excalibur issues only a year or so ago, so my sense of time is skewed.
 
  
Add Your Reply