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Rebuffing propositions from strangers when travelling on your own

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22:07 / 17.11.03

Ok, how do you handle someone approaching you with an offer you don't want to accept when it's late and you're travelling on your own? I'm travelling on my own quite a bit at the moment, and often quite late at night. I just want a way of saying 'no thanks' without sounding offensive but more importantly without getting myself followed.

If it's daylight and I'm sure of my surroundings, I don't really mind random strangers approaching me. It happens quite often (I have that irritating 'nice to children and animals' face). However once it's dark I can't quite cope in the same way. Or am I just being paranoid and should I not worry so much?

Tryphena Absent

22:14 / 17.11.03

Very stilted conversation. If they don't get that then there's an accelerated chance they're mad and you really want to get away from them.

22:24 / 17.11.03

Yeah. I'm thinking that never sitting down and walking about with a scowl might be good too. I sit down to read because I am tired, and become as easy target. Mis-t-a-k-e.

22:46 / 17.11.03

while reading, a simple 'sorry, mate, but i really need to finish this before i get to bed tonight, i have an exam on it tomorrow' works for me.

Lilly Nowhere Late

06:13 / 18.11.03

My mind just whirls with ideas of how to put off strangers! Everything from
psychotic stares to inanae rambling about time travel to patting one`s belly while
claiming "the baby`s kicking around a lot in there just now..." Mostly remember that
your space and time is your's and you are not obligated to share it with anyone unless
you choose. A very strong radiation of confidence is generally quite itimidating to those
looking for victims.

09:22 / 18.11.03

What about a sharp, unexpected, and slightly impolite punch to the nose? A good conversation stopper, if nothing else.

Tryphena Absent

09:25 / 18.11.03

I can just imagine harmony punching people in the nose *BAM* 'oh I'm sorry, I have a strange disorder that makes my limbs move involuntarily. Watch it, I think I'm about to go another round' *Smash* 'oh dear.'

09:25 / 18.11.03

Being a man does the job.

09:27 / 18.11.03

"Ah do nort spik Inklesh?"

Depending if and what you're reading, obv.

09:44 / 18.11.03

Being a man does the job.

Being very tall and exceedingly ugly also helps.

Seriously though, I don't know. I always find when I'm in any kind of confrontational situation or arguement it helps if I'm very polite and reasonable but can still stick to my guns. I don't always have the presence of mind or composure to do this, and to pull it off with a stranger would require a fair amount of self-confidence. ie. "I'm sorry, but I don't really fancy chatting right now". With the really drunk and/or idiots being challenged like this might make them aggressive (might not - must people are cowards) but then at least you've stated your positon from the outset.

10:03 / 18.11.03

I don't really think there's any need to hit people when a polite "no, thank you" and if really necessary, a far sterner second response, quite often work. Stern enough to get rid of them permanently.

I also don't think for someone who's worried about offending complete strangers the suggestions of violence is a good idea.

To be honest, if you're on public transport, there will probably be other people nearby; bus drivers, tube station attendants, who are quite easy to find if you're worried about being followed. If you're accosted in the street, the chances of them having actually seen your face are minimal, and that's a more understandable place to be worried. So really, there's no need to hit people when polite or stern equivalents of "no" will do for a drunk guy on the tube. And on the streets, walk briskly and focused, without looking like you're running.

The time to pull the stops out is if people start touching you without your permission. Do not fuck around; put your hand on the rape alarm in your pocket, and get ready to pull the pin. If you're travelling alone, I'd say a rape alarm - for whatever reason - is a must.

10:30 / 18.11.03

Actually, it is remarkable how little help members of the public on the Tube can be in situations where people are persisting in making unwanted advances to you. They have a distressing tendency to ignore what is happening - not, I think, out of a lack of desire to help, but simply because people on public transport just block things out.

I don't think there is much one can do other than be firm, be more firm, and shout if necessary. Move carriage at the next stop. Move downstairs on the bus. Follow Paleface's advice re: alarms. I have been very lucky in that I have got out of nasty situations where strangers have refused to leave me alone without too much difficulty, though someone did once try to follow me home in Harlesden. I think the mistake I made was responding to initial conversational approaches so I'd cultivate the ignore approach if I were you. I am weak and easily preyed on, so YMMV.

Illmatic - surely all you need to do to avoid confrontation is to put on that f***ing terrifying mask?

Regrettable Juvenilia

10:40 / 18.11.03

Carry a flick-knife at all times, and occasionally sit there and open and close this blade whilst staring at it in a bored manner.

10:52 / 18.11.03

I also don't think for someone who's worried about offending complete strangers the suggestions of violence is a good idea.

No shit? and I thought I was making a perfectly sane and reasonable suggestion all along. This thread has been an education to me, and for that I offer my heartfelt thanks.

Tryphena Absent

10:55 / 18.11.03

I also don't think for someone who's worried about offending complete strangers the suggestions of violence is a good idea.

I'm not sure that anyone was actually suggesting that Harm, harm anyone but violence isn't something you can control. You don't know whether you'll be violent until the need for it occurs.

I've never carried a rape alarm and I probably never will. There's no point, specifically because the one time I heard one my synaesthesia kicked in and I couldn't see anything. It's rare that I have a tremendous response to a noise but I could hardly move for the sensory overload it caused me- a plain white light (not like paper but lightning) over my vision and my ears screaming and it was so much that I felt like my spine was trying to pop out of my back I was shuddering so much. Needless to say I was terrified and don't intend to purchase something that would probably inhibit my escape. Having said that I'd also recommend them to most people... just as long as they never go off near me. The only other response like that is to red hot metal being dragged along road surfaces (they do this to seal them sometimes. I had the misfortune of nearly crashing my car last night as I drove past the wankers who didn't shut a road to do it).

A man did follow me off a train once and I had to scream at him. I was so mad at him for scaring me like that, it was like my mouth opened and I couldn't control the torrent of abuse that fell out of it. He turned round and slouched back to the trains and that was just as well because I probably would have hurt him horribly if he hadn't. I felt like a trapped animal, I think I would have done anything to get him away from me.

Our Lady of The Two Towers

11:40 / 18.11.03

Minimise eye-contact, I wear sunglasses even on the tube often, if people can't be sure they've got your attention then they tend not to bother you. The half-sane ones anyway. Otherwise, a book (or paper or comic or bible) and walkman/discman. This generally gives me all I need to ignore someone until they give up and go away, even crazies, if they have to struggle to make contact with you.

09:41 / 19.11.03

Cheers everyone. It's interesting to hear various approaches and all that. I doubt I'd ever hit someone because if they hit me back they would probably over power me (just to set Paleface's mind at rest). However the suggestion did make me laugh. *flail* sorreeee *thunk* ooopss ... etc.

As with KKC if people approach me I generally respond in a pleasant way. I might stop doing that if they look odd. Or pretend to be odder - I like that option

I get approached mostly when waiting on platforms, and both the recent occasions I was sitting reading. I'm not sure I'd reccommend that option as a first approach deterent but maybe if I carried on ignoring them? I'm sure I'll have more opportunities to find out.

Flyboy - I'm sure that would encourage some of them.

10:09 / 19.11.03

Well, you can borrow the mask if you want.

It's a green Mexican wrestling mask with fangs and hair. Might get a bit sweaty though.

Hattie's Kitchen

10:30 / 19.11.03

When approached by leery blokes with beer bottle in hand, and obligatory unimaginative chat-up line, I find that a reply along the lines of: "Have you been saved by Jesus?" sends them running.

10:51 / 19.11.03

On a more serious/constructive note, if this sort of thing is on your mind, you might want to pick up Geoff Thompson's book 'Dead or Alive'. Thompson is a bit of a martial artist's martial artist, former nightclub doorman, and big scary geezer. He's written tons of books on adapting martial arts training to real life confrontation and fight situations.

His book 'Dead or Alive' focuses on precautionary measures that a person can take to make themselves less vulnerable, it models behaviour patterns of predatory people, common strategies used by attackers, body language cues to look out for, methods for managing fear and adrenal responses, etc..

Worth looking at if you want to develop tools for avoiding unpleasant situations.

11:08 / 19.11.03

People always decide I look like the person to talk to usually drunk old men for some reason, doesn't bother me most of the time but after reading this thread I reckon I must be really "soft" I would never tell someone that I'm not in the mood to talk to them...

I think I really need to turn heel.

Gah

12:17 / 19.11.03

I love Geoff Thompson's stuff, it's fantastic. He's got a great bulletin board over at www.geoffthompson.com, though it's more geared towards serious martial artists and blokes with a worrying fascination with battering people, rather than avoding it altogether. One tactic kind of nicked off of him is just being aware of what might come up and mentally rehearsing or visualising firmly saying "no thanks/leave me alone" or whatever, that might help.

12:49 / 19.11.03

I can't knock that forum actually, it's brillant, everyone over there has totally the right idea with regard to self-defence, very little machismo - found a mention of this book over there, which sounds like a classic: Dogs Don't Know Kung Fu

17:57 / 19.11.03

1. Travelling (not exactly commuting, but) - I've heard wearing a fake wedding ring can work wonders.

2. A trick from travelling that applies elsewhere - hand gesture: palm down, parallel with the ground, moving back and forth quickly as if polishing a table or severing a vertical ribbon with the knife of your hand. Accompany with "No, thanks." or "No, gracias." or "Jalan, jalan." It's useful for people who are trying to sell you something or offer you something. Sort of a banishing gesture, maybe, in body language.

18:27 / 19.11.03

Granted, I am not embarrassed by much, so if none of the polite methods work, and they are not getting the hint, I usually opt for morphing int human repellant. There are a number of methods...

1. glossolalia - my fave. make sure your eyeballs roll back in your head ocassionally. caution: you may cause a panic and end up on a gurney if taken too far.

2. pick your nose - while talking directly to them if necessary

3. yawn..snoring is also acceptable

4. Ask them if they have ever been ass-candled...sometimes this one works in reverse, caution once more...

5. Sratch bum, smell fingers...offer to let them smell too and ask them if they think it has gone a bit off.

6. Try and sell them something...make something up...say, Insurance..or Mutual funds...your National League Football team...soap...doesn't matter, but you need some bullshitting skills

20:18 / 19.11.03

I'm just not afraid to be rude, which is quite effective. Anctics are unnecessary compared with the power words fuck off.

21:42 / 19.11.03

Oh, indeed Cusm. I agree. People are so reluctant to just say it as they mean it. Sometimes that is necessary and it trims off the shenanigans, but it is truly the entertainment value of said antics that is deeming these efforts worthwhile. While "Fuck off" is a harsh and abrupt halt to conversation, it does not cause bewilderment or bafflement - both of which, tend to be excellent conversation stoppers.

I have employed this method of keeping attackers away from me at night in the subways. Singing carols in the heat of summer, or muttering to myself, reading newspapers that are not there...out loud sometimes...it has been quite effective for me.

Nobody really wants to see, just how deep another's insanity really goes and they don't generally head out on the road to find out more.

BTW: I tend to be a bit tongue-in-cheek, but if I was pushed or particularly moody, I would have no aversion to employing chaotic elements to a situation.

Lilly Nowhere Late

07:13 / 20.11.03

May Tricks: I want to go on a full moon saturday night tour of London
underground with you. We will have a brilliant time exploring our deeper
insanities in public and probably put losers who try to pick up girls or victimize
anyone off doing it for at least a week or so once they have seen us in action!
I feel a superhero complex coming on......
must stop now.

No star here laces

07:37 / 20.11.03

Put on headphones. Always works for me.

07:44 / 20.11.03

Carry a Bible. Excuse yourself and start reading it. If that doesn't work, hit him with it. I bet Uma Thurman knows 100 ways to kill a man with a Bible.

21:00 / 20.11.03

Oh Illimatic the mask sounds great! Can I add extra green?

The drunken ones don't bother me as much as the slightly odd, scary ones. "Have you been saved by Jesus?" sounds excellent. Maybe with the bible in hand.

I sat on the train going into town the other day, and this guy moved seats to sit near me, then to sit opposite me. I just ignored him on this occasion. I just... why? It was 11am and not like I wasn't entirely wrapped up in baggy jumper + trousers + coat. And I made absolutely no sign of wanting to speak to _anyone_.

If I have any entertaining stories where I've tried out any of your advice, I'll post it. For now I'll just stop feeling obligated to speak to people.

21:27 / 20.11.03

While traveling alone in Italy, I was incessantly approached by slavering greasy-haired men who would practically do ANYTHING to get my attention (this happens absolutely nowhere but Italy). They'd accost me, hiss at me, meow at me, wave neon umbrellas in my face, yell things like: "Hey, gorgeous! If you do not come back to my room I will cry!" (Boo-fucking-hoo...)

I found that any response in either English or Italian proved completely futile. Anything from "No thanks" to "Fuck off!" merely assured that they'd harangue me until I lashed out with the nearest projectile. What did work was a few lines of Japanese delivered at high volume and velocity. (If they can't communicate, they can't flirt. Plus, Japanese sounds so delightfully vicious when spat.)

Of course, I don't actually know much more than phrase-book Japanese, so I routinely yelled "Pleased to meet you! May the Lord Amida Buddha bless you!" and the like. It worked, though... gotta say.

Sunglasses and a distinct swagger also help.

21:31 / 20.11.03

Lilly...you are on!!! w00t!

bjaques: Bible...good one!

22:45 / 20.11.03

Harmony: Please feel free to borrow mask. Please buy that book though and then lend it to me (and g/f obviously)

I'm having this weird sick fantasy about may and Lily hunting me down on the tube ... and making me pay.

06:43 / 21.11.03

Oh, that made me have this Don Genero moment...I wish I could describe it to you, Illmatic, but I am laughing my ass off...I think it took me ten minutes to type this.

Hmm...don't you usually pay to ride the tube?

Oh. Damn!...I keep forgetting how subtle the British are.

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