Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.

Underground > Temple >

Magickal Ambition

12:09 / 13.11.03

From a post by Absence of Gravitas in another thread; An old friend of mine was very well-known in his locality for "doin' stuff" - partly through the local magical scene but mostly 'cos word had gotten round to the point where if you made noises in the right ears about needing some sorcerous assistance, you were pointed in his direction. But to most people, he was just this eccentric old dude with a weird-lookin' walking stick. He never asked for money, but on the other hand, he was never short of a nice bit of black hash or hooch.

I want to be like that cool old guy, or maybe more famous (like, say, Alan Moore famous). It occurred to me that one day we'll be the old guard, scorning future magi for their lazy nanobot-mindjoy techniques, ('In my day we made do with a sigil and a hand shandy, you kids don't know you're alive..') or will we?

If you continue your magical practice, where do you want it take you? If you could instantly download a system or body of knowledge what would it be? What do you think your practice will lead to? Do you want to transcend physical form or inspire others to learn magick? Do you want to become God-King of the known world or heal kittens for your neighbours?

In short, what's your magical ambition?

03:02 / 14.11.03

"If you could instantly download a system or body of knowledge what would it be?"

Just fill that Grail up with the basic Tarot interpretations and a healthy dose of Kabbalah and I'm set.

Seriously, the best result I could hope for is...okay dammit, I don't know. I tried to end that previous sentance five times and couldn't do it. Still can't. I guess I'm just trying to enjoy the ride.

Boy in a Suitcase

03:42 / 14.11.03

Exceed, exceed.

No matter how high the number is you can always add one. Ambitions = unecessary friction.

Oh, but $10,000,000,000 and a helicopter would be nice (Hello Anthony Robbins!)

05:12 / 14.11.03

Huh. Myself, I suppose that I would like to keep coming back to pick up my studies, (I don't know whether reincarnation actually exists, I try to avoid beliefs, but I suspect that one lifetime just ISN'T enough to get the full coolness of this). I would like to see just how far I can take that acausality thing. Nanobots? Bring 'em on! More time to practice. What do I want to achieve in my practice... I want to strain consensus reality until it breaks with a resounding CRACK, and I am left with something different, interesting, and you can bet, dangerous. That is the thing about magick, I can't really think in terms of achievement, because some of it's possibilities are so outside of consensus reality that they really are impossible to envision. There's only one thing that I know for sure. My life in magick now is very different than I could ever have envisioned it to be in my past. I look at what I "see" now, and realise surely that if I went into a shrink and told him about my world, the gentle suggestions for medication would arise.... (a damn good reason to do that "Keep Silent thing....). Another thing was that when I began practicing it 25 years ago, NEVER could I have imagined what life is like now. I've had things happen that make me look back and say, "That was SO wierd, how cool!" Just give me 10 more years, please! (I am no spring chicken)What I really want to do it is to take it to it's limit, understanding that no one really knows where that limit lies. I want to be a force of nature with a void at it's core, and a gentle breeze that flows through creation.. See? It becomes poetry, because magick can't really be talked about in facts, but only in art. Now that I've gotten all corny and screwy...... awww hell. Actually I'm sort of like that old guy, except a female version... but I have no hash or hootch, sorry. If I could download any system, I wouldn't, because magick for me has become about getting still and simple. Give me a good ecstatic trance any day with a whopping vision, you can get so much out of a good vision... I would like to teach others how to do this, because I think that we are on the verge of a BIG CHANGE...

05:19 / 14.11.03

i wanna be the guy with the stick from the example, but i wouldnt mind learning all about tantra in a donwload.

oh, and whatever jesus was using.

all of it.

07:14 / 14.11.03

"I want to be like that cool old guy, or maybe more famous"
if you just wanna be some famous "cool guy" then you should probely quit magick if you just wanna be famous, youre in for the wrong reason, you never gonna succed with anything. Join the Backstreet Boys instead.

My goal:figure out more about myself and this world. And destroy capitalism, fascism and bring about massanarchy.

07:25 / 14.11.03

Interesting question. I read a book last year by a British Buddhist, David Smith, where he said beyond planning for the future in terms of saving money he didn’t really think about it, as it never turned out how he expected. Good attitude, I thought, but perhaps I just have low standards though, and need a slap from my kickass, high-achieving, hard-drinking NLP guru (Seth, you have been nominated for this position).

I would like to die happy though, feeling that I’d at least tried to engage with the world, and it wasn’t a worse place due to my existence. I hope when I do pop off I’m conscious about it, and that I’m not consumed with fear, attachment or regret. That’s about it though.

*steps outside office, is hit by bus*

09:12 / 14.11.03

if you just wanna be some famous "cool guy" then you should probely quit magick if you just wanna be famous, youre in for the wrong reason, you never gonna succed with anything. Join the Backstreet Boys instead.

If you consistently jump to unfounded conclusions and seek every opportunity to impart self-aggrandising wisdom, then you probably shouldn’t be in the game either.

It's fairly obvious from Quantum's statement that he was referencing the "creepy old geezer with the stick who gets things done" as a possible role he would like to occupy in the latter years of his magical career. I think that's fair enough. I think it's one of several possible occult career paths to aspire to, and quite a worthy one. Obviously nobody wants to become the crazy village sorcerer guy purely because it'll make them somehow "cool" or "famous", and there's a world of difference between some old bloke that does a bit of magic, and one of the Backstreet Boys.

09:22 / 14.11.03

if you just wanna be some famous "cool guy" then you should probely quit magick if you just wanna be famous, youre in for the wrong reason, you never gonna succed with anything. Join the Backstreet Boys instead. Mr Coffeebean
Silly me. I'll start my dancing lessons now, oh how I want to be as cool as the backstreet boys. Good luck with your mass anarchy, that sounds really magical.

Scathach139- great post! "I want to be a force of nature with a void at it's core, and a gentle breeze that flows through creation.." sweet. I completely agree, the more you talk about magic the more poetic it becomes, because Art expresses passion best, and magic should be all about passion.

This thread throws up some interesting differences in approach I think, some people see ambition as a trap (BiaS, ambition=unnecessary friction), or their ambition is to be at peace, or they desire knowledge (for it's own sake) etc.

I think ambition can be a useful spur, the Gnostic/Hermetic desire to better oneself is present in all of us and can drive us to great things. Of course you must be wary of hubris and competitiveness, and pursuing ambition for it's own sake etc. but without some form of drive toward something we would stagnate.

My ambition is currently to persuade Seth to become a guru or shamanic teacher, then form a cabal with him and Illmatic and TAKE OVER THE KNOWN WORLD!.. sorry, there's that downside to ambition I mentioned.

16:00 / 14.11.03

My ambitions are simple. Immortality. Is that too much to ask for?

Probably, but if I'm given the opportunityto ask for something...

I'm otherwise all for the job of "creepy stick guy", as that's a lot like what I do now, only more "out in the field." Lacking an immortality and god like debauchery, it sounds like an attractive way to spend one's retirement. Sitting in the park, enjoying the moment, taking in the sights, playing the occasional game of chess, and giving answers to random people who feel the need to ask you questions on park benches and don't know why. Just doing my part for the City Spirits.

16:17 / 14.11.03

hmmmmm...I dont have any specific ambitions, enjoying the journey to go wherever it leads is already very satisfying, and I can only hope that everything keeps unfolding and developing it as it has over the past few years.... of course i wouldnt mind some recognition, fame, unlimited funds,.... (often i feel i have all that though)

the whole instant download things is a tempting thought , but then again, the experienec of gradually accumulating new "lessons" has been most rewarding for me, so I might as well continue on that path (but to instantly download back street boys-like dancing skills has been a secret desire of mine!)

actually theres an ambition (beside taking over the planet and corrupting the media system with my renegade-spiritual-metaphysics-squad): I would like to get to the bottom of the "dark guilt trauma" thing that has been residing inside me since I can remember. I don't know where it comes from. I would like ty come to terms with it. face the demons.

17:46 / 14.11.03

Okay. Via magic I hope to tear down the entrenched foundation of cynicism, resentment and self-loathing which I built my personality upon for most of my life, and start over anew, rewriting version two from scratch. For one thing. That's my short-term goal. I mean, I'm pretty happy with me-now. But that's just because me-now doesn't want to be replaced, I think. I'm more open-minded less paranoid and ridiculous than ever these days but I still feel like everyone I see on the street is laughing at me. Is that crazy?

I told a friend of mine this morning, "I wish I had the balls to look really freaky." "You do look really freaky," she said, and I replied, "sure, but I don't have the balls to."

I don't know what I want in the long term. I think cusm said it best, for me. I spend a lot of my time these days taking walks, writing nonsense, exploring around my city, tending fires in city parks and that sort of thing. Just indulging whimsy whenever it strikes me. My friends have come to expect it of me. Sometimes it makes me feel like I might be acting "crazy" or "childish" but in the end it's always rewarding. I dunno. I have the feeling that if I just write down or record everything that ever strikes me as important, if I act as ideas for action occur to me, something will come together. I'm hoping a big picture will emerge.

I want to be enlightened, cool, and content. That's alright, right?

14:51 / 15.11.03

I'd say that I want happiness, knowledge and mastery of self, a better understanding of the world and how to work in it, to have more friends as good as the ones I've got now. Playing some drums with good musician friends wouldn't go amiss, and maybe do a bit of composing and writing (we'll see). Along the way I hope to take care of people who I both love and don't love as much as I can.

15:14 / 15.11.03

Years ago, before I started studying magic, I decided that my basic goals were to keep learning things, have a good time, and leave the world a better place than I found it. Studying magic hasn't changed that at all, and I think those goals are worthwhile in a magical practice.

I'm still not sure "what I want to be when I grow up" - I'll probably retire to my little cabin with the really fast wireless connection and stir stuff up from there. Skyclad ritual in the woods and all the bandwidth I can eat - what more could I need??

Shorter term goals are to be on better terms with my body (I'm a bit of a control freak on a physical level, due to a chronic condition), and build community so that there are a handful of folks willing and able to do magickal works as needed.

I haven't the foggiest notion where my practice will take me... (Energetics has led to a truly magical sex-life, but the rest of my life is pretty chaotic and not in a good way!)

16:43 / 15.11.03

Its not so much "what I want to be" later in life as it is "what I want to be experiencing"...Namely: having fun, living well, hacking the collective unconscious, taking a more proactive stance toward synchronicity, travel. That'll do for now.

19:00 / 15.11.03

I want grace.

I'm investigating and integrating magickal study because I want to live smoothly.

Spyder Todd 2008

02:15 / 16.11.03

I don't really worry about the future. I can imagine it, but I'll be off somewhere. Sure, there are somethings that I think I want to do right now, but whether or not they happen won't be all that important when the time comes. I know, I'm going off on the whole zen-taoist thing, but I really feel more connected with everything now then I ever have before. And the big difference is that I'm not meddling with things. I allow the universe to work. I'm still an agent for chaos, sure, and I still would like to change the world. And I probably will. But I'm not going to do anything worthwhile by beating my surrondings into submission. As long as I let things happen, go with my feelings, everything is going to work out exactly the way it is meant to work out.

04:43 / 16.11.03

Long-term, I'd go with Chesed's grace, or scathach139's force of nature thing, or the contentment and mastery that's been tossed around. I think that's everyone's goal, even if they don't know it. I could be wrong, but I won't believe you if you tell me.

More specifically in the short term, I want to be a wandering hero...like Gandalf, or Cain (from Kung Fu, though the biblical version might be fine, too), or the Lone Ranger, or the dog from The Littlest Hobo. I don't mind being anonymous.

12:42 / 16.11.03

to experience a raw information feed from the universe

to be unbound to language

to have the hand awaken the body and wear causality as my skin

in short, to be sapient

19:59 / 16.11.03

To transcend physical form and live forever as pure language.

I'm serious here.

14:01 / 17.11.03

I want to know more. Hell, I want to know everything, but I'll settle for more.

I want to get remote viewing working, I want to manage lucid dreaming on a consistent basis, and I want to astrally project. I want to explore every nook and cranny of every bit of the universe, and see everything there is to see. I want, no matter what the question, to be able to say "hang on a sec; I can find that out" and do so.

Basically, I don't want there to be any barriers I can't overcome to satisfy my endless curiosity.

14:35 / 17.11.03

It's just occurred to me this weekend that I really would like to co-found a magical society in England. The magical renaissance that's been growing since the withcraft act was repealed in 1951 is, I think, approaching a critical mass. There's a zillion Pagan groups around, but I'm thinking of something on the scale of the Golden Dawn, a group of like minded occultists getting together to teach each other stuff and develop new systems, or at least new applications of old ones, publish on the subject, do TV interviews, do workings for people etc. etc. like a magical think-tank or Magickal Services Plc

And you lot are the beginning! I still think Seth should be in charge...

17:13 / 17.11.03

To transcend physical form and live forever as pure language.

Yea, that's what I'm talking about. Everything else is a contingency if that plan doesn't work out.

20:36 / 17.11.03

Perhaps i could say LIBERATION or FREEDOM or ANARCHY. I spent my teenage years as a punk devouring Crass and Conflict and Anarchy and being an INDIVIDUAL. And i'd always kept those 'ideals' and 'values' and 'morals'. This also came with a healthy cynical disgust at the 'cop-outs' of religion and faith and the occult etc. This lasted until my late 20s when inspired/goaded by Grant Morrisons letter colums, and i guess a deep unsatisfaction with myself and the universe, i tried out some stuff. Spookily it seemed to work and as i tried more stuff it seemed to work in ever more wierdand wonderful ways. So i found MAGIC and it seems to offer a greater chance at LIBERATION and FREEDOM and ANARCHY than anything else. It strips off and examines the conditioning i and others have built around myself.
It allows me to take a good hard look at what i percieve as an objective reality and realise and see the flimsy basis that it is built out of. And it gives me ways to confont and get rid of the crap.

So it gives me the possible attainment of LIBERTY and FREEDOM and ANARCHY,being an INDIVIDUAL.

And that up until recently would have been my answer but magic also seems to have the habit of taking those big capitalised ideas and really making you think about what they mean. Again the rug is pulled from under your feet.

So basically i don't know what the answer to the initial question was. I really admire people on here who have chosen/been chosen to take on a more Shamanic route to their magical pratice. To use their skills to help those around them. At the moment i'm purely selfish and seek to gain as much out of it for myself. I'm not saying that i never do stuff for other people. I think i do a lot. But i think the driving force being it is for myself. And that may be 'just to make myself feel better and less scared',as many friends (non magic types) have told me but there is a general feeling of WAKING UP. I think i can capitalise that at the moment.

So I'll say that...

TO WAKE UP...etc

23:08 / 17.11.03

I wouldn't mind being this crazy old guy, in fact next to time traveling adventurer and international anarchist revolutionary, being an insane old coot is one of my dreams. I wouldn't mind recieving the word of the new aeon, but I'd rather be an insane old man.

at the scarwash

04:53 / 18.11.03

Insane old guy is good. I want to be the heap of rags in the back of the bar that the good guys come to for help, you know,

THEM--They said he'd be here, but all I see is this heap of smelly old clothes--

ME--Stufffff!!!!

THEM--Gosh, he sure is wise!

07:04 / 18.11.03

It's interesting how many people have identified with the archetype (cos it is an archetype) of the insane old man. I'm reminded of a programme by Pete McCarthy that I saw a couple of years ago, where he bussed around various mystical schools, at one point getting his tarot read by Catlin Matthews (I think). She pointed out to him that he identified with the eccentric old dude figure on some level and was waiting till he got older so he could take it on, "assume the god form". This touched him so deeply that he started crying. So that go me wondering - what did this figure represent to him? I think it must be a projection of future freedom, of finally having no responsibilities. This in turn suggested that he felt very hemmed in and controlled or armoured now - the fact that he had to project a sense of freedom from responsiblity, from whatever strictures he preceived as holding him in - into the future. What about freedom now?

This deferred gratification struck me as really sad (in the proper meaning of the word) and moving, not least because our futures are never as we imagine. Wouldn't it be a shame to live our lives looking forward to some kind of freedom in old age to find when we got there it wasn't what we had been imagining? I'm not saying that is what is going on with everyone upthread - combination of different motivations etc I'd imagine, but I thought I flag it up. Why does this figure appeal to us? What does it represent and what can that mean to us now? I'd also ask the women round here - what are the female archetypes for old age and how do they relate to them? Is insane old crone as atractive as insane old dude?

08:11 / 18.11.03

"When I am an old woman I shall wear Purple..."

14:01 / 18.11.03

I think he's appealing because he achieved a oneness with the magick, is no longer concerned with the trials of the world, and is free to let syncronicity guide and care for him. Its a form of the enlightened state, like a modern buddah. He's unattached to the world, wise, and the sprit/magick/tao acts through him as he has become an agent of it. He's also The Hermit, isn't he?

It appeals to me as its something I do to some extent now, the whole shaman taking care of the community thing crossed with an idea of contract work with the celestrial beauracracy (which has a nice benefits package). The old man is just doing it Full Time. I'd like to do it Full Time for All Time, trading consulting and occasional mercenary work for golden apples.

14:25 / 18.11.03

Two thoughts on the "crazy old dude" archetype - one is the (much too easy) age=wisdom idea, and just the simple fact that he's lived long enough to get old while messing with powerful things... and the other is the big fuck you to the trappings of authority. Kind of the active version of not being connected to the trivia and concerns of the world...

Personally, I don't think I'm going to give up on personal hygiene. I know a number of older women who still have a fair amount of personal power (although none of them are involved in magick) and they make attractive role models. The image of the witch/herbalist in the little hut in the woods is part of what I hope to retire into, and I just now had the realization that that image is part of my future planning (thanks for bringing it to the surface!).

I grew up on science fiction, and have read enough about various fictional sorceresses that "insanity" somehow doesn't figure into my image of witchy crone. Eccentric, yes, but not batty...

18:45 / 18.11.03

That seems to echo my thoughts as well. While I acknowledge the "crazy old dude" archetype, I see his craziness as either highly animistic and feral(Werewolf, Qlippothic Fool), or self-inflicted alienation as a controlling ubermensh(Vampire, Qlippothic Magician). I see myself as a crazy old man one day, but completely in touch with the here and now... similar to izsabelle's Witch (coincidentally, Qlippothic High Priestess).

But screw Qlippoths. I'm gonna be a High Priest, AKA The Good Hannibal Lector of the Midwest