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Tim Burton: Big Fish

 
 
Baz Auckland
20:40 / 07.11.03
The Trailer For 'Big Fish'

From the site: "In the heartwarming film Big Fish, director Tim Burton brings his inimitable imagination on a journey that delves deep into a fabled relationship between a father and his son.

Edward Bloom (Albert Finney) has always been a teller of tall-tales about his oversized life as a young man (Ewan McGregor), when his wanderlust led him on an unlikely journey from a small-town in Alabama, around the world, and back again. His mythic exploits dart from the delightful to the delirious as he weaves epic tales about giants, blizzards, a witch and conjoined-twin lounge singers.

With his larger-than-life stories, Bloom charms almost everyone he encounters except for his estranged son Will (Billy Crudup). When his mother Sandra (Jessica Lange) tries to reunite them, Will must learn how to separate fact from fiction as he comes to terms with his father’s great feats and great failings."


ummm.. the screenplay is by the writer of 'Go', Titan AE, and the Charlie's Angels movies... the trailer doesn't get my hopes up, but with the circus scenes it at least looks a little more Tim Burton-y than Planet of the Apes...

Anyone heard anything else about this?
 
 
PatrickMM
20:53 / 07.11.03
I've heard really good things, and that it may be a legitimate Oscar contender in the fall. However, the word heartwarming is not usually something I associate with good. That said, Edward Scissorhands had its share of heartwarming moments and was incredible. I think that, while this might be as "Burton" as some of his movies, it's going to be much better than Apes, and quite possibly his best movie since Ed Wood.
 
 
rizla mission
21:28 / 07.11.03
The summary quoted above sounds absolutely dreadful, but then.. the summaries for most previous Burton films proabably sounded dreadful too..

Absolute appallingness of Planet of the Apes aside, I still trust him to make beautiful films.
 
 
diz
12:51 / 18.12.03
so.... it's out in NYC and LA. a small party of us drove up to LA last night to see it.

i loved it. utterly.

however, it's a bit sappy, and i suspect some people might be turned off by that (but then again, Edward Scissorhands is pretty sappy, too). everyone i was with was bawling their eyes out by the end, though.

it kind of reminds me of Forrest Gump, if Forrest Gump hadn't been such a right-wing propaganda piece, crossed with Gilliam's The Adventures of Baron Munchausen and maybe Pee-Wee's Big Adventure.

it is often hysterically funny. like, rolling on the floor funny. there's one bit that reminds me of the famous scene in Raiders of the Lost Ark where Indy faces off with the swordsman with all the fancy moves and ends up shooting him, which had me howling.

it's also quite weird at times, and also touching. Ewan McGregor is as charming as the very devil, and Albert Finney is even moreso.

it's definitely worth seeing, i think.
 
 
gridley
14:17 / 18.12.03
Yeah, I saw a sneak preview of it last week.

I really, really liked it.

It's both very sentimental and very highly stylized, so if either of those things tend to annoy you, you might want to stay away.

The acting is superb, the script a delight, and the direction far better than I would have given Burton credit for. He deftly intertwined the two realities in a such a way that made both fully engaging.
 
 
Brigade du jour
10:11 / 24.12.03
Ooooohhhhh. At the risk of sounding like an optimistic fool (yeah like THAT'd be breaking the habit of a lifetime) this could be another Ed Wood. Or at the very least another Edward Scissorhands. Maybe they should have called it Eddie Big Fish.

Sappy? Yeah but I like sappy. In fact I am a bit sappy. Good casting too, I'm really pleased Hollywood is finally tapping into the cool shit Albert Finney is capable of. He was my favourite thing in both Traffic and Erin Brockovich (hmm, same director there) and it looks like he could be my favourite thing in this, as well.

"God, I hope it doesn't suck." Me too dude. Big Time.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
22:03 / 24.12.03
I saw this film about two weeks ago, and I quite liked it. It's a charming film, and it has a good sense of humor. It made me cry at the end, but I didn't feel like it was cheap tear-jerking - it mostly made me tear up because the ending was so beautiful. Definitely tears-of-joy kind of stuff. It's a pretty joyful film overall - I'd make an argument for it being an inherantly Joycore film, but I'm feeling a bit lazy right now.

I've never really been a huge Tim Burton fan, so I'm happy to see this come from him. I think the film is better made coming from him than it would have been if Steven Spielberg had made it, as it was originally going to be. I think that Spielberg would have softened the weird bits, and he definitely would be yanking on the heartstrings a little too hard. Burton gets a nice balance, and I admire that.

Ewan McGregor does a great job in this film, as does Albert Finney and Allison Lohman.
 
 
Caleigh
00:40 / 26.12.03
To those who have seen the film, might you compare it to "Amelie" in terms of being quirky and stylized yet a bit sappy and romantic?
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
01:08 / 26.12.03
Yea, but I thought that Amelie seemed not quite so forced in places. I saw a preview a couple of weeks ago, and bits of it I really liked. You will keep expecting Ewan to say "Young Skywalker" a couple of times through it - his accent's pretty atrocious. Some of hte cast are a bit 'eh', but I think the parts for some are underwritten. Quite liked Bonham-Carter, but thought Billy Crudup was unconvincing. Visually, there's some great bits in it, some really lovely visuals, but some seem a little secondhand. I don't think it's as good as Ed Wood, but that could be because I don't think they're comparable: Ed Wood was more almost straight honoring/biog, whereas this is more in the whimsical tale category. Would like to read the book to see if the ending's as mashed in as the movie is; it seemed to me to be where the pacing was just off.

Good bits: look out for Buscemi's poem and the ventriloquist. You'll know them when you see 'em.

And to think it was originally a Spielberg/Nicholson project.
 
 
diz
13:13 / 26.12.03
Yea, but I thought that Amelie seemed not quite so forced in places.

i agree here. Jeunet had an exquisitely light touch in that film, and if we're going to compare the two films, Burton comes off as a bit more heavy-handed.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
17:37 / 26.12.03
I'm not exactly convinced that this film would have been better if it wasn't at least a little bit heavy-handed. I mean, I am glad that it didn't end up with Spielberg because I think it would've been too much, but I think Burton reins in it and keeps it under control, but definitely kinda sappy. It's not bad sap.
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
23:12 / 26.12.03
But you didn't think that Crudup's change in attitude was a bit too sudden to seem anything other than schmaltzy?
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
13:54 / 29.12.03
It's pretty easy to come to grips with the fact that a parent who is "dying", as in, "in the process of", and a much different animal when said parent is actually dying, as in, right in front of you.

Thus, high time to ditch all your ghetto-ass naysaying and make your father happy as he goes.

Quite effective, but not as effective as that beautiful slow-mo pan over everyone retelling Eddie's stories at the funeral. That was what killed me, personally. And also the realization that the fish was, indeed, "the ghost of a thief", even if he really did only steal his own money.

That was the most Coen-esque thing I've ever seen in a non-Coen Brothers movie, by the way (even more Coen-esque than a few of their most recent movies). Robbing a bank vault only to find that your deposit is the only one in there. Ca-lassic.

Yeah, I loved this movie a whole lot. If it was possible to hang a movie over my writing desk this would be the one.

Bring on The Ladykillers!

"Hup! Undergrawnd!"
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
15:41 / 29.12.03
I'm also reminded of McKee's speech in Adaptation:

The real world? The real fucking world?
First of all, if you write a screenplay
without conflict or crisis, you'll bore
your audience to tears. Secondly:
Nothing happens in the world? Are you
out of your fucking mind? People are
murdered every day! There's genocide and
war and corruption! Every fucking day
somewhere in the world somebody
sacrifices his life to save someone else!
Every fucking day someone somewhere makes
a conscious decision to destroy someone
else! People find love! People lose it,
for Christ's sake! A child watches her
mother beaten to death on the steps of a
church! Someone goes hungry! Somebody
else betrays his best friend for a woman!
If you can't find that stuff in life,
then you, my friend, don't know much
about life! And why the fuck are you
taking up my precious two hours with your
movie? I don't have any use for it! I
don't have any bloody use for it!


This is from the second draft. I believe the final version actually includes some words about deathbed interactions.

The man is spot on.
 
 
gridley
18:47 / 29.12.03
I didn't think there was anything sudden about Crudup's transition. It started when he looked through his father's papers, continued when he met Helena Bonham Carter, and hit the point of no return when he talked to Robert Guillaume. I can't really say anything more without spoilers though.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
19:24 / 29.12.03
But you didn't think that Crudup's change in attitude was a bit too sudden to seem anything other than schmaltzy?

Dude, his dad was dying. It was never established in the story that Crudup's character was a heartless, selfish, obstinate prick, only that he was slightly bitter that his father wasn't ever straight with him because he loved the guy and wanted to know more. As Gridley points out, he was well on his way to coming around to seeing the world as his father did, and so it's not that hard to imagine that he'd meet his father halfway on his deathbed and show him the utmost kindness and generosity in his final moments. I don't think the decision to be kind and forgiving was out of the character at all, and it provided a satisfying conclusion to the central conflict of the film.

I agree with Benjamin and Gridley on this matter.
 
 
diz
19:28 / 29.12.03
I think Burton reins in it and keeps it under control, but definitely kinda sappy. It's not bad sap.

oh, don't get me wrong, i'm not saying it's bad sap. i loved the movie. it's just that the topic of Amelie came up, and i had to point out that it wasn't really the best comparison. Big Fish, by comparison, is as subtle as a brick, but that's only because the feel of Amelie with regard to schmaltz is so specific and Jeunet's skills in working that specific niche are fucking supernatural.
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
21:32 / 29.12.03
I didn't think there was anything sudden about Crudup's transition.
Well, you're a better man than I, Gunga-Din and all that - I wasn't convinced by him at all. I'll continue my ghetto-ass naysaying and suggest that Crudup's still one of the weaker links in the chain-mail ballgown that is this flick.

Matthew: you'll note that I never said Crudup was a prick - I just thought the journey from disbelief to acceptance was unconvincing, and seemed to be nothing more than forced. Whether that's bad direction or just bad acting, I don't know, but I didn't buy him in the role at all - not just in the particular recognition-of-dad-as-not-so-bad bit. As dizfactor says, as subtle as a brick.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
22:04 / 29.12.03
I think that a lot of the problems came from Crudup and not the writing - I'm not totally convinced by his acting, and I think that they certainly could have found a better actor for that role. It just seemed as though he was in the wrong film, really. The rest of the casting seemed very careful - McGregor definitely passes for a young Finney, and Allison Lohman looks like a young Jessica Lange - but Crudup didn't look or act much like the child of those parents.
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
02:03 / 30.12.03
Bingo. I think that's what irked me - I couldn't help but think "So, what are you doing in this film?" whenever I saw him...
 
 
Adam Warlock
20:07 / 08.01.04
I dunno. It was good and all, but my major issue was with the depiction of Spectre and the resolution of the whole

*Begin Spoilers*

Helena Bonham Carter-is-a-little-girl-is-a-witch-is-a-lovelorn-shut-in-is-a-fish plotline. It actually seems almost as convoluted as the old Magik storylines from Uncanny X-men when I write it down... Also, I didn't think that they went far enough in establishing what the town meant to Ewan Mcgregor/Alber Finney or why it fell into such disrepair. Even the reveal of Ewan's transformation into a financial whiz seemed a bit off to me... It was just so frustrating because the stuff at the beginning when he first arrived in Spectre was so awesome and then it just felt like they sort of dropped the ball when they go back to the town at the end.

*End Spoilers*
 
 
The Strobe
21:32 / 31.01.04
I think some people probably will find it sappy, but I think they probably have no joy in their soul.

I saw Big Fish today - it's only recently had a UK release, and was quite surprised. It's had very mixed press reviews, but I really loved it. I felt, in some ways, it was some of Burton's best work as a director. In fact, the best scenes in some ways were the ones set in the present; there are some beautiful, striking, and breathtaking scenes in the stories (the daffodils spring to mind, for me), but the real coherence of the project was to be found in the contemporary leads. Even though it's very brief, I really, really, loved the scene with Jessica Lange and Albert Finney in the bathtub. That was just beautiful.

I can kind of see the Crudup came over as a weak link, but it's still an effective performance in some ways. I mean, he's a black sheep to his parents; he's lost the childish joy they've always retained, and so it's not quite his fault he's as enthralled as everybody else. I did think he was great in the final scene, to be honest, but I can see I might be in a minority.

I was also quite surprised when Bonham Carter turned up again, but once the explanation for the circularity of everything popped up, I was enthralled. It's a really lovely meditiation about storytelling, the way we preserve ourselves in fiction and the fact that we all only have so many stories to tell. (And to whoever namechecked the Coens - yes, I see the link entirely). It's a very theatrical film, and I loved the fact that there was a curtain call at the end, for everyone to turn up first as they were, and then as they are. That worked well.

Also: I like the wide-eyedness of it; I like the idea that sometimes, love is that simple, life is that large, even in the smallest of smalltowns. I described it to a friend as "big and little all at once"; it's an intimate film - in some ways, you're always aware that these stories are all happening inside Bloom's confining bedchamber.

About the only autopilot thing in the movie for me was Danny Elfman's score, which whilst nice, I didn't notice, and it didn't quite live up to the showbiz billing, as it were.

I've picked up the novel for three quid in a Fopp, and am now really looking forward to reading it. The film certainly touched me; I think part of the joy in the film is that it celebrates storytelling, as an art, as an act to enjoy and partake in regularly, and since I was tiny I've always had stories brimming in my brain; Big Fish reminds me that this is in no way a bad thing.

(Also, the giant kept reminding me of Ron Mueck's giant Mask - or is this just me?)
 
 
wicker woman
00:32 / 01.06.04
The general vibe seems to be that Crudup was just being generous to dear ol' dad on his deathbed... not to go all Morrison and all, but couldn't it have been that he finally came to accept that maybe there is more to reality than absolute "truth"?

Complete Side Note: This is the third movie I've bought in a row without having seen already and been really impressed with. Huzzah!
 
  
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