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Total Barbelith Tarot: XXII-(22)- The Grail (take 2)

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17:25 / 15.11.01

Wouldn't the 23rd path be the Path of Bob?

Actually, that's frightfully suiting. The tree and paths are a construct of order that attempts to explain and include all things. The path that extends beyond the tree would then be the path of chaos, all possibilities at once yet unrealized.

Now if only I could shake this horrible image of the grail as a pipe...

19:02 / 15.11.01

quote:Originally posted by cusm:
The path that extends beyond the tree would then be the path of chaos, all possibilities at once yet unrealized.

Chaos and order are artificial distinctions. You talk of a tree as a symbol of order, yet no tree anywhere on the planet is exactly the same. A chaos pattern/fractal can look completely random, but its mathematical.

To extend beyond the known possibilities into the true infinite is beyond concepts of anything. Its the moment you forget what your talking about and just see... No chaos, no order, no no. But maybe a yes.

00:13 / 17.11.01

Here is the updated version of
The 22nd Major Arcana

Wow I can finally post images. Thank you Grant for all your help!
P.S: If you want to remove the first version that's cool.

-May Tricks

18:41 / 20.11.01

I have a question: What are the divinatory meanings for this card?? (i.e. you will marry, you will become rich famous and obscure by 30 etc...???)

We must incorporate this card fully if it is to be accepted by the masses.

18:47 / 20.11.01

I wrote a poem that might help. I am going to have to meditate on this for further deveopment. It might just have the effectiveness of a blank rune, which is a recent development.

-May

09:50 / 25.04.02

digging this up... that business about malkuth in kether can having something to do with the fact that there is an entire universe one order above us... our kether, the godhead, is in this larger universe just little older malkuth, etc.

seems the 23rd path would be the connection to that next universe. ain soph might be another name for the medium (like ater is a medium), or interference zone, or passageway from this (multi)universe to the next -- the card after the universe, then, is a dramatic exponentializing of the universe to a higher order.

if we have a system that has a 23rd pathway -- and the major must be a pathway, not a sphere -- then i think it is to far unbalanced unless we also have a new number. so we should conisder adding the wand cup pentacle sword of 0s! or -1s. these would then rest in the sphere of Ain Soph, to which the grail / hologram etc card would be the pathway.

as far as daath goes, i think the sphere of daath in tarot is best represented by THE PERSON LOOKING AT THE CARDS.

13:10 / 25.04.02

I invision a card, whose image is a reflective mirror...

Wrecks City-Zen

20:46 / 25.04.02

Just when you thought it was safe to visit the tarot forum...

Great insight by the way. When the tree is super imposed over the chakra system, DAATH falls on the throat chakra..."THE WORD"

07:04 / 26.04.02

the WORD = the FLESH so i doubleplus my concept that the daath card is the cardplayer, the living combination of linguistic consciousness and fleshy material existence!

there's also a concept that on the two dimension scheme of the sephiroth, daath is the tip of a pyramid that streches out into 3d below (or above) -- so its dimensional existence is the same as that of someone looking down at the tarot cards laid out on a table

(side note: an essential and fun project if anyone hasn't done this yet is to lay our all your cards on the floor in the shape of the sephiroth, everything in the right place. it's like being able to read a novel all at once, all the pages unbound into one)

07:06 / 26.04.02

oh i meant to say that the all-at-once perspective might be the perspective of 23:grail, so it could contain all the card with a new element.

but then again, you know what contains all the cards and a new element? you do. it make sense again for me that 23 is the HUMAN CARD -- in fact, that would explain why we've got 23 chromosome pairs, woudln't it?

07:07 / 26.04.02

(christ i need an edit button)

just to complete the thought full circle,
WORD is chromosomes, the chromosomes build the FLESH
23 is the process of WORD=FLESH convergence.

18:50 / 15.10.02

You know, I'm thinking this card really must have the meaning "Syncronicity". I mean, what else would be better for the 23rd path?

And as another thought: paths all run between sepheroth. What if the two sepheroth this path connected were Daath and YOU?

Wrecks City-Zen

19:51 / 15.10.02

Synchronicity, indeed.

If you look at the tree, DAATH divides the path of the priestess down the middle. It was my intention that it would fill that spot- showing that there has always been 23 paths...

... and with that I bid you "HA!", and i'm off...

Wrecks City-Zen

20:27 / 17.10.02

Another thought:

I really like the idea of 23 WORD=FLESH idea."-- in fact, that would explain why we've got 23 chromosome pairs, wouldn't it? "

Very discordian. The 23 brings the tarot to 5.

so instead of:

....T....

A.......O

....R....

We have a straight line:

T A R O T

hmmm...

carry on...

04:27 / 18.12.02

For the last two years I've been using a white crad with silver linnings as the Arcanum XXII. I've found its useful when a confrontation with your inner demons/desires is at hand at the same time. Its a secret never to be told, not even to your selef until it hits you right between the eyes. Is not a reversible acrd because doesn't have a point of reference. It also works as a magic mirror only the consultant knows for sure why that card appeared. Its a trick card after all is my personal 23rd arcanum and it breakes the symmetry of the Tarot. It also represents the hyperreality.

Wrecks City-Zen

20:38 / 18.12.02

That is so cool.It seems you have assigned the listed associations posted here without being aware that this thread/card existed.Grail/Magic mirror, the title does not matter, the meaning does. Good job.

PS- So nice to see the tarot threads popping up again.

04:08 / 20.12.02

Thanks!. To tell the truth I didnt know this site existed. And sometimes I just felt weird using it, even blasphemous. Heh.

Devil's Avocado

20:20 / 17.02.03

ain soph might be another name for the medium (like ater is a medium), or interference zone, or passageway from this (multi)universe to the next -- the card after the universe, then, is a dramatic exponentializing of the universe to a higher order.
and
Grail/Magic mirror

I saw a TV prog on 'M' Theory yesterday - an explanation for the singularity of the big bang using parallel universes. It postulates an 11th dimension, populated by 'metauniverses' (which the CG made look something like giant rippling donuts). The big bang is described in terms of two of these donuts colliding, their irregular surfaces causing 'clumps' of matter to be formed and flung out from the collision - our stars, galaxies etc. The 11th dimension was described as a 'medium' within which it's 11D 'cosmic donuts' and hence our own universe sit.
Overlapping metauniverses creating our own? Hmm sounds very familiar...(Magic Mirror + Anti Mirror anyone?)
I'm just struck here that entry to either of the meta universes in Invisibles usually involves acces via Barbelith (dark side of the Moon/Abyss?) or through 'Magic Mirror', which is a maifestation of one of the 'metauniverses' in our own dimension.

Like an itch I can't scratch, i have been trying to reconcile 'M' Thoery with my understanding of Kabalah and the grail/('magic')mirror card is ringing bells for me bigtime.

They also talked about the meaning of 'M' in the theroy and came up with 'Mother' or 'Magic', but 'Mirror' fits extremely well too

19:47 / 18.02.03

My Tarot usage has been pretty focused on the Thoth deck, and I've always felt that Crowley's inclusion of the Unicursal Hexagram card (like a Joker) was the 23rd Atu. It could be a glyph of the whole path from Fool to Universe (The Great Work), and/or it could be related to Daath, and/or it could be the mirror reflecting the Fool (the human user).

Daath seems to be the most logical starting point for Atu 23. If the 23rd card is between Daath and Kether, then the High Priestess is wholly below the Abyss - this cannot be right. If Atu 23 is from Tiphareth to Daath (and this is my intital hunch), then it only leads into the Abyss, which seems to lessen the transformative nature of the 23. However, if Atu 23 is taken as the Hexagram, then it may be fitting that it leads out of Tiphareth up to the Supernals - The center of the Hexagram is often considered coincident with Tiphareth (superimpose the Hexagram over the Tree). This also re-enforces the path of moving from the Heart (Christos, The Sun, The Angel)to the Abyss, by way of The Great Work (93).

But the above predicates that Daath is an "official" Sephiroth. I wonder why Crowley was reluctant to lend it such status, favoring instead to keep it as a hidden sphere (this may be appropriate to it's nature).

Perhaps it is also the nature of the 23rd Atu that it reside in the shadow of the Tree as well...

21:02 / 19.02.03

Ah, I overlooked the Empress, the path between Chokmah and Binah, through Daath as well. If Daath were a true Sphere, the Empress would be divided, necessitating yet another Atu, pushing the total to 24.

18:35 / 20.02.03

According to Crowley, Daath is numberless because all is confounded within it's sphere.

Who's your Tzaddi?

22:47 / 07.03.03

Seems that there should be another 3 additional Atu created - even though that would transform rhe Da'ath into an official Sepheroth.

21:46 / 07.11.06

Mrf - I feel insufficiently grounded in classical Western Ceremonial Magic and the Kabbalah to contribute to this conversation much.

I will toss this in. My Mom's first deck had two extra cards (which makes sense, since there are, from the printing process, 2 extra blanks to be had, which are usually filled with advertisements or somesuch).

One of her extra cards was blank, and apparently signified mystery, or "fuck if I know". The other hand a thumbprint, which signified the deck "thumbing its nose" at the querant - "fuck off!"

The idea of a mirror card resonates very strongly with me. If I had a 22nd card, I would indeed leave it blank white, black, or silver.

--Ember--

09:39 / 08.11.06

If I had a 22nd card it would be the Fool again.

Unconditional Love

15:29 / 08.11.06

22nd card could be all the cards as one card, say like DNA as a blueprint, something that contains all possible combinations of major and minor arcana, but doesnt have the movement, the procession of meaning, supplied say by the proteins and there reactions to environmental stimuli, That agent would be the querent themselves, their psyche acting as the environmental stimuli to rearrange the base blueprints.(Adaptive mutation)

The grail only functioning with what one has to bring to it and one has to sacrafice to it.

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