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Please Help ID Carnivale Symbol

El Gato Was Right: the t-shirt

01:37 / 03.11.03

The ring on this page was in tonight's episode of Carnivale, and I'm wondering what its significance could be, and who might wear such a symbol.

Possible clues pilfered from the fan site FAQ:

The lettering says "In Hoc Signo Vinces" which is Latin for "In This Sign You Shall Conquer." It refers to the cross.

At the start of the series a main character says: "Before the beginning, after the great war between heaven and hell, God created the earth and gave dominion over it to the crafty ape he called man....And to each generation was born a creature of light and a creature of darkness..... and great armies clashed by night in the ancient war between good and evil...There was magic then, nobility, and unimaginable cruelty......So it was, until the day that a false sun exploded over trinity and man forever traded away wonder for reason.

The word "avatar" has been used recently.

Thanks for any help.

Hieronymus

02:12 / 03.11.03

Masonic symbolism? Wow. I reeeeeally wish I could see this show.

Baz Auckland

02:12 / 03.11.03

It may just be a really cool ring for the Creature of Light to wear...

...the 'In Hoc Signo Vinces' is what the emperor Constantine was told by God before his big battle outside Rome that won him the empire. Except that his 'sign' was the PX thingie... The 'Chi-Rho'. let me get a pic. Was that in the FAQ?

...I think I need to start watching that show...

Mazarine

02:32 / 03.11.03

I think it's a Templar thing. Looking around for more.

Mazarine

02:50 / 03.11.03

Nope, this is a job for a better library than mine. I'll see if there's anything at school tomorrow, but someone smarter will have probably already answered by then.

mondo a-go-go

03:42 / 03.11.03

I thought it was a Masonic thing. The guy who owned it said it was his "lodge ring"

El Gato Was Right: the t-shirt

04:17 / 03.11.03

Huh, the link works fine on my machine.

He said it was his lodge rink, yes, but when Ben touched it he had a vision of knights and bloody warfare.

The Strobe

07:26 / 03.11.03

I actually thought it was just a Christian thing; there's a marvellous Chi-Rho in the Book of Kells. And, Chi-Rho are of course the first two letters of Christ's name in Greek.

(Aside: here's the Book of Kells one. Gorgeous, isn't it?)

And also, from the Catholic Encyclopaedia:

These two letters formed what is known as the monogram of Constantine, so called -- not because it was the invention of this emperor, for it had been a familiar Christian symbol prior to his conversion -- but because of the great popularity it enjoyed from the date of its appearance on the imperial standards. From the cross-bar of the spear, was suspended a purple banner with the Greek inscription TOUTO NIKA -- i. e. conquer by this (sign), usually rendered in Latin "In hoc signo vinces" (in this sign thou shalt conquer).

Are we getting anywhere? (Just realised: this is similar to what Baz mentioned)

Mazarine

11:10 / 03.11.03

Huh, the link works fine on my machine.

Sorry about that, for some reason it wasn't working on mine for about forty-five minutes, then my computer decided to participate.

Baz Auckland

22:02 / 04.11.03

Maybe he's a crusader. Knight Templar or some such. His 'Lodge' could be the 'Knights of ...'

stepinrazor

04:39 / 05.11.03

Shades of Rennes-le-Château, the knights templar, even Dumas (Ten Years Later) ... and looking at the script, it's absolutely supposed to be a masonic ring. So.

Possibilities are endless as to who might wear a ring like this. We have everything from priests to musketeers, alchemist, rosicrucians and all kinds of christians.

Narrowing it down in terms of the show requires much more viewing time, I think.

Yours,
-C.

El Gato Was Right: the t-shirt

04:33 / 11.11.03

Hawkins in last night's episode knew what the inscription meant without knowing a word of Latin. Hmmm....

And from the previews of the next episonde, it looks like we may get a little more of an answer about the ring's origins when Hawkins and the dwarf stop at a lodge of some kind.

mondo a-go-go

01:32 / 13.11.03

Waaaaaaaah! I'm going back to London and I'm not going to see the final three episodes! Not. Fair.

El Gato Was Right: the t-shirt

20:38 / 14.11.03

And by lodge, I don't mean the Black Lodge.

invisible_al

13:07 / 15.11.03

Anyone know when/if we'll be getting to see this in the UK?

Saint Keggers

15:18 / 15.11.03

anyone know if it will be back for another season?

El Gato Was Right: the t-shirt

15:29 / 15.11.03

This seems to suggest there is going to be a second season.

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