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Birth order

10:11 / 28.10.03

Been encountering birth order research in several contexts of late. Some boffins say the first child will be the cleverest, the most likely to have a career in health care, and the youngest may be the boldest sibling or the most likely to be gay. There's a lot of "birth order" research about, perhaps because it's something fairly concrete that can be easily counted and cross referenced.

Here's an "Adlerian Overview of Birth Order". I'm quite happy with the stereotype of oldest child is the most responsible and takes care of the rest - becomes a "mini-parent". Sums me up.

And, although my younger siblings are no slouches, despite my occasional academic hiccoughs, I have accumulated more letters after my name, I suppose.

I think that, in many ways, that I am the least mature of the three of us though. But I lead the most interesting life, from my biased perspective no doubt.

Has your birth order predestined you for glory or ignominy, derring-do or mousy timidity?

10:19 / 28.10.03

I was an only child until my harridan of a mother took even that from me, inflicting my little sister, a brown belt and the greatest painter of her generation, on the world, or at least the Eastern seaboard, when I was 16.

How I hate them both. I cry to thee, VENDETTA!

10:28 / 28.10.03

I don't know. I'm more outgoing, bossed my younger sister round a bit when we were children - but she's by far the more stable and together one. No signs of her being gay yet, but you never know, maybe she's a late starter. I'll ask her!

10:30 / 28.10.03

Only child. But you probably guessed that.

10:31 / 28.10.03

VENDETTA!!!

10:44 / 28.10.03

ALL BOYS - If mother wanted a girl, can be dressed as a girl. Child may capitalize on assigned role or protest it vigorously.

uh oh. I don't remember being dressed as a girl, but I've probably blocked it out! This is rubbish no?

Tryphena Absent

10:45 / 28.10.03

Dethroned by next child. Has to learn to share. Parent expectations are usually very high. Often given resposnsibility and expected to set an example.

I was definitely dethroned and was more likely to share than my brother. My mother probably expected more from my brother but he was rebellious in comparison to me. He used to call me '**** can do no wrong'. I taught him to plug the TV in.

May become authoritarian or strict. Feels power is his right. Can become helpful if encouraged. May turn to father after birth of next child.

Erm... I guess I am a bit authoritarian? Power is my right and I try to be helpful and I hate being ignored with a passion. I get on well with both of my parents but think a little more like my dad. My mum is far more responsible than me or my dad.

Is more competitive, wants to overtake older child.

That is without any doubt my brother. He never let me play with his toys and he steals my things (for instance he's taken my TV and playstion to Brighton with him. Weirdly I don't appear to care).

12:58 / 28.10.03

Jub, I think it’s just all about eighty years old now, this Individual Psychology / Alfred Adler stuff, and has long since been superseded by more sophisticated work building on his insights and those of the other psychotherapy pioneers. His basic thrust, iirc, is that life is struggle and it’s the way we deal with early life’s challenges that patterns our lifelong behaviour.

For me, the sex ratio thinking was: Usually with women all the time, if father is away. May try to prove he is the man in the family, or become effeminate.

I battled continually with my father, growing up, so that bit’s probably right enough. I don’t think I’m effeminate but maybe I’m just still trying to look “tough”.

We seem to be similar older children, Anna. I had two younger sisters though and things went very well with the younger of those two. I’m probably too indecisive to be effectively authoritarian though.

The gay thing’s another piece of work entirely, by Blanchard, showing that a man is more likely to be gay, the more older brothers he has. Ganesh and I are both exceptions to that rule too.

13:05 / 28.10.03

Talk about a misreading...I thought that said Adolf Hitler Institute. You can imagine my relief...

Anyway, only child...yep, I am sure it is obvious. But let me tell you, it is not all pats on the back and being lavished with gifts and attention, nope.

from the site:
Birth is a miracle. Parents have no previous experience. Retains 200% attention from both parents. May become rival of one parent. Can be over-protected and spoiled.

The truth is, that with 200% attention...there is no possibility of it being all good. So, you know "only children" get inundated with EVERYTHING! Every last damn thing! Only children carry the weight of the world because of this...well, their world....but they end up takng all the credit or all the blame for everything that goes on around them.

I am really sorry for this post. I know it will just f**k up the whole thread, then the internet will breakdown and the planets will all misalign then fall out of the heavens...IT'S ALL MY FAULT! I know, I know...

I am going to seek asylum with my imaginary friends.

Goodness Gracious Meme

13:07 / 28.10.03

Xoccypoo, do you know of any work done on gay/queer women in this area?

From that Adlerian thingy, I can certainly see these in me...(youngest/all girls) especially the 'protests assigned role' thing

13:21 / 28.10.03

The only, oldest, middle, youngest seem to work out okay when I think of my family & others' I know. The rest are sketchy and/or clearly outdated.
Overall it just doesn't apply to modern families, which is to be expected, given the age of the study. In the case of my family, I fit the profile of the eldest child pretty neatly, and the next two siblings down are I guess somewhat typical middle & youngest. But then we have another full sibling 8 years younger than the second-youngest, and then two more "half"-siblings. The youngest full sibling is probably the most difficult to place in the Adler scheme....

Cheap. Easy. Cruel.

13:35 / 28.10.03

Interesting. I am the youngest and only boy of five children. My father left when I was very young and I was the man of the house as I was growing up. All except one of my sisters were out of the house by the time I was old enough to remember. I am by no means effeminate, and I was the man in the family. I never felt I had to prove it, it was just a matter of fact. So, in my case, the "only boy among girls" portion of the chart holds true.

However, the bit about the youngest does not hold true in my case. I have no desire to be "bigger" than my sisters. They are all succesful in their own right; I am happy for them and have no desire to outdo their accomplishments. Most of the plans I have are not "huge", and most of them work out.

15:34 / 28.10.03

I'm the eldest and Bizunth is my younger brother.
I learnt responsibility early on in life, also how to repair ornaments.

16:07 / 28.10.03

For you, not-at-all-sensibly shod Bengali. I’m sure this will point you towards much more detail of related research too, if you’re in the mood to scour it (page two looks fruitful).

Couple of remarks by Bogaert, who collaborated on and has finessed some of the Blanchard findings about birth order and sexual preference:

A number of studies have suggested that homosexual men have, on average, a later birth order than population norms or comparable groups of heterosexual men. One of the more impressive elements of the birth order effect is its generalizability. Not only has the effect been demonstrated in samples of men from different eras, from different countries, and with different ethnicities, but it has also been found to occur in clinical and nonclinical samples.

He goes on to put in place some tough qualifiers about the Blanchard findings, however, despite having just said the above.

Also says, re lesbianity and birth order:

Birth order and sexual orientation in women has been less studied, and the results from early and/or clinical studies are inconsistent. To help clarify this relation, Bogaert recently studied data from a very large sample of women who were interviewed by investigators at the Kinsey Institute from 1938 to 1963. The women were dichotomously classified as lesbian (n = 257) or heterosexual (n = 5,008). No significant effects for birth order, birth order among brothers, or birth order among sisters were observed.

19:22 / 28.10.03

I'm the first of two. I have a degree, and my sis don't. She's gay too.

How typical.

19:45 / 28.10.03

I am going to seek asylum with my imaginary friends.

Uh May, we are your imaginary friends...

All I know is, my dad regularly told me that being the middle child meant that I was trouble. Who would say that to a kid?! And look, "even-tempered, 'take it or leave it' attitude." I guess he must have been looking at a different chart.

20:43 / 28.10.03

Im a bit in the same position as steelwelder- youngest of 5, most out the house before I could remember.

The way they see it, is that Im spoilt half the time ("in my day, we would have got 5 pence/ nothing/ a good skelp for that") but then I think they had it better, cause they were never on their own at home.

As for big plans that never work out, well, I suppose its half right. My big plan is to get famous, but then its not really a big plan if you dont know how you plan to get there.
And about wanting to be bigger than others- well yeah, but I suppose its understandable when you're treated like your 7 when you're 17. Its probably partly what caused me to be so obnoxious when I was about thirteen, and wearing curtains, binbags, and so on.

I suppose I must be fairly stereotype- someone said "Yeah.. I guessed you'd be a youngest child" here once. And if you can tell that from typing..

21:06 / 28.10.03

Qalyn, I feel your pain. I was dethroned at age 16 too. But I'm still my mother's only child. She loves me with the violent love one holds towards the single living cypher of one's genes and insists that I call my little brother and sister my half-siblings with emphasis firmly on the "half". What does Alder have to say about us, huh? We're just too damn post-modern for him.

21:07 / 28.10.03

ADLER. I know what I'm talking about.

21:18 / 28.10.03

Shit...Im thinking of being dethroned age 16. Thatd be soo wierd.
Im glad my mums so old.