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List of Moderation Changes- A Proposal for an Experiment.

 
  

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Our Lady of The Two Towers
10:40 / 15.10.03
As it is a great source of concern to a couple of people that moderators had the power to make changes willy-nilly I'm wondering if, as a trust exercise, we might spend a week listing the changes we've made.

I would suggest that when we've received a request we post something here to indicate forum and thread and then the nature of the change (typo, extra text added, HTML cleaned up, text deleted) and whether we said yes or no. In the case of the change not being made by the person who wrote it (ie: thread locked/unlocked, message deleted, thread deleted) perhaps the moderator could also include why they did what they did.

Hopefully as things seem quiet at the moment (famous last words) this shouldn't be too onerous a task and might help show that the moderators aren't trying to pervert the course of Barbesation. Does this sound like a good idea if we kept this up for maybe a fortnight to start with, extending it if people feel the need? Of course it will require goodwill on the part of moderators to fill it in and everyone else to believe that the moderators aren't maliciously going round making changes that aren't being admitted to.
 
 
Lurid Archive
11:12 / 15.10.03
It'll be a pain in the arse, but why not. Shall I start?

I proposed moving Rage's Koan thread to the creation after asking in thread if anyone minded.

I proposed changing the image width of a piccy that didn't fit in the CIA agent outed thread in the switchboard.

I approved a couple of typo things this morning that I don't remember.

Are you bored yet?

The only controversial thing I did recently was propose a lock of the Kobe bryant thread, which I did yesterday. But I said I was doing that in thread, so it shouldn't be a surprise.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
11:14 / 15.10.03
I approved Lurid's piccy-size-changing thing... this could get tedious. Maybe only actions we've proposed ourselves...
 
 
Jack Fear
11:19 / 15.10.03
It's a good idea, Lady. I'm not sure about a thread, though... it's not entirely transparent, is it? It depends on self-reporting.

I imagine that the board software itself automatically generates a log of changes. If that could be rendered as a table—maybe not the whole shebang, but key points like who made the request, the time, who seconded the request, and the text in the "Reason" box...? Something like the stuff you find at blog-tracking services like Nedstat?

Or am I asking our software slaves Tom and Cal to reinvent the wheel?
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
11:31 / 15.10.03
Really, really *don't* see the need for this, but I'll play along for now - however the only way I'm ever going to do this is to post anew in this thread as and when I moderate things.

I just agreed to add a line at the end of a post by Bill Posters (change requested by Bill, obviously).
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
11:51 / 15.10.03
There is no way on God's green earth that I am going to be able to keep up with this. I mean, I've okayed about 6 changes today and I'll be damned if I can recall them in detail. Lessseee... Two were double posts, there were a couple of typo fixes. I okayed moving the Koan thread to Creation. Bill requested a post tweak, but I can't remember what, exactly, was being tweaked or where.

I'm bored now.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
11:56 / 15.10.03
I'm also having an increasingly hard time finding any sympathy for the whole "Moderators are fifty-feet high and fart LIGHTNING! They must be STOPPED!" mentality. It's getting a bit pathetic.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
12:11 / 15.10.03
I agreed to delete one of nowthink's posts in 'To lock or not to lock'. There was something else as well, I think it was either adding a word in for someone or a typo.

I don't fart lightning, I'd just like to make that clear. I think this is a nice idea, I've probably suggested it myself, but a little impractical when you take in to account a whole variety of things such as bad memory and posting limits. I know I've had two mod requests today but god knows the second one was too mundane to properly recall.
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
12:20 / 15.10.03
I think this is great. One of the greatest things about it is that I'm not a mod any more. Otherwise I'd hate it for its incredible tedium - mod actions are boring enough the first time round.

I do miss the special lightning-retardant pants, though.

Anyway, from what I understand, there is a log, and Tom is considering whether and how best to display it, with reference to the considerations expressed elsewhere in this forum about mod-stalking and so on.

Fly - it can't have escaped your notice that you are now pretty much the only person on the board who makes these objections. I realise it's a pain, I realise that there isn't a conspiracy to be unmasked.

While all that is obvious from within, however, it is apparently not obvious from without. I imagine that there'll be a visible log sometime soon, and it will be boring as hell. This thread is also a great idea because it makes apparent the appalling tedium of moderation. Interest will fade, and that's all to the good. In the meantime, because there's a perceived need for this, there's a real one. And in future when someone feels stomped by moderation, there will be a log, and they'll know how to object if they want to.
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
12:34 / 15.10.03
I've just put a vote in towards locking the Controversy is good thread as I agree that it's just become another excuse for nowthink to start shouting 'bitches' and 'ho's' again.

I must admit that, as I only moderate the Conversation I hadn't really thought that those of you who have tentacles in many areas will have more work to do in reporting it here. The only thing I can suggest is maybe keep a little Notepad file during the day and post all together in the morning/evening? Sorry Mordant. (I should make it clear that I'm rather embaressed about my lightning farting abilities and am currently waiting for the NHS to insulate a rectal camera so they can see what is causing the problem)

I should also point out that I'm as dubious as Flyboy as to the actual need for this but just decided to start the process going while I'm full of the milk of inhuman kindness towards all my Barbelith brothers, sisters and others.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
12:35 / 15.10.03
Have you got Mordant on 'ignore' or something, Nick? And Flux?
 
 
Olulabelle
12:40 / 15.10.03
I don't fart lightning, I'd just like to make that clear. I think this is a nice idea, I've probably suggested it myself, but a little impractical when you take in to account a whole variety of things ...

Anna, I read this just a tiny bit wrongly!
 
 
grant
14:18 / 15.10.03
I just okayed the deletion of a thread on Outkast -- it was superfluous, and the thread starter asked for it to be destroyed. E. Randy Dupre suggested it, so now HE'S IN TROUBLE TOO!
 
 
Spatula Clarke
14:31 / 15.10.03
If anyone seriously thinks I’m going to keep a note of every moderation action I propose or agree through the three fora I’m part of the team in, I’m afraid I’m going to have to disappoint them. If Tom and Cal want to make some kind of moderation log visible then fine, but I’d love to see exactly how many people bother to read the damn thing when it’s up. Makes no difference to me anymore, because it’s not going to be me who uses it or has to make it happen.

Nick, just because Fly’s one of the only people making these objections doesn’t mean he’s the only one who has them. Maybe the others are sick of the speedy reappearance of these exercises in hand-wringing and overreaction every time one person decides to spit their dummy out. Maybe they’re fed up with having the same argument again and again and again. Maybe they’ve taken the decision to refrain from posting to these kinds of threads in favour of just getting on with the job at hand.

And see? I’ve just gone and broken my recently self-enforced rule of not posting to these threads for the very reasons given above.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
14:34 / 15.10.03
I just proposed editing my own post above to clear up the typo that turned the word 'fora' into the two words 'for a'. Next I'm going to propose editing my name out of grant's last post and putting someone else's in its place.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
14:54 / 15.10.03
I have just agreed to E. Randy Dupre's post to change 'for a' to 'fora'. I felt that it was a little hasty as I'm sure people could have read it anyway but I decided that it was probably okay.

I can't help but notice that this thread is rotting rather badly. It's purpose is pretty fucked by the discourse on whether this is necessary. I also suspect that Randy and Flyboy are right, simply because this is ridiculously impractical and that Nick is wrong because he's not my dad. Still it gives me an opportunity to confuse Olulabelle and that's all I really need in life. Uh huh.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
14:57 / 15.10.03
I say, this might be a bit novel but how about if we only post here when we are 1)deleting a thread 2)locking a thread 3)deleting a post that is not a duplicate?? Do people really want to know about Randy's stupid mistakes? Do people really care? If you care can you say something now?
 
 
Tryphena Absent
14:58 / 15.10.03
Except Nick. We know you care.
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
16:47 / 15.10.03
Oh OK then, next time we have this argument we'll just have to say "sorry, those that live above in darkness quite like working in mysterious ways which breed suspicion, here's the addresses of other forums you might want to use instead."

I'm sorry you see this as 'hand-wringing and overreaction' Randy, I saw it as an attempt to see whether greater transparency on the part of moderators would have any real effect on the discourse. I'm sorry you feel you can't spare that minute or two in your day.

I was originally going to suggest that we only mention what might be considered contentious decisions, the problem I saw with that was that if anyone had a mind to complain they might say "AAH! No-one's claiming responsibility for OKaying my request to fix a typo, therefore they aren't admitting deleting my post either. Therefore it's X, therefore I want them banned and their abodes burned to the ground" Giving out an aura of trust to get one back you see.

Oh well, we'll have to wait and see if Tom and Cal can cook something up I guess...
 
 
Lurid Archive
18:00 / 15.10.03
Sorry, I just can't keep track of this. And I haven't even been online as much as usual today. I've okayed about 5 typos but I can't remember all of them. Did Bill do one? Maybe. I think I may have had a hand in E Randy's. MC assures me I did one of hers. I think I did one by Trix and someone five minutes ago whose name I didn't recognise and so can't remember. It wasn't too important, I think.

Do I get extra posts for writing this drivel?

Edited to add: Oh yeah, did we lock that "controversy" thread today? Or was that yesterday? I approved that, I think.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
18:02 / 15.10.03
I think it's overreaction in the sense that we've had an astonishingly high number of threads designed to ease the concerns of people when what we're actually talking about is two or three people incapable of taking criticism or understanding the basics of group dynamics (one of whom was a moderator himself when he decided to start yelling about the great moderator conspiracy, which is a pretty good pointer to just how daft it all is). I mean, look around at all the P&H threads that we've had devoted to this subject ever since mod decided to mess himself and look at exactly who's posted to them. Mostly moderators. A couple of people who've had arguments with Haus in the past or those who are *always* present for a bout of "I was done wrong" complaining, regardless of the circumstances. No lurkers. No new posters.

Get that - no lurkers, no new posters. With that in mind, it seems fairly obvious to me that a lot of moderators and long-term posters are worried about nothing. Nothing of consequence, at any rate. I can understand why, but surely we've been down this path enough times in the past to have learned that we'll always get the odd person kicking up a fuss and trying to provoke a reaction that gets everyone in a panic about What's Going Wrong, purely because they like to try and cause a fuss. You've got to ask yourself why Barbelith's always so happy to oblige and why this sort of introspection is peculiar to this board - it's certainly nothing I've ever come across on any other message board, not to this extent or with this frequency.

And again I've got to say, look at who's been involved in these discussions and you come away fairly convinced that, in general, nobody cares. Nobody believes there's any moderator conspiracy, not even mod. But we keep on feeling the need to tell everyone, going around in circles, fretting when there's no need, and very probably making anybody outside the board or those who've recently joined think to hell with the place - it *does* look like an unhealthy self-obsession. The old cliche increasingly looks like it rings true: Barbelith's favourite topic of conversation = Barbelith. And yes, I realise the hypocrisy inherent in posting this and I'm fully aware that it goes against my "not getting involved with discussions about moderation" policy, but it's stuff that's been narking me for weeks (and, more importantly, I'm feeling a bit shit at having seemingly crapped all over Flower's idea, when most of what I was railing against was more to do with a lot of recent threads).

In principle a thread listing mod actions is a wonderful idea and yeah, it covers our backs for the next time somebody says "you deleted my post for no good reason" (even if I'm struggling to think of a time when that's ever been an issue). Again, though, do you honestly think anyone's going to use it? Do you honestly think that anyone other than moderators would ever open this thread to audit the moderator actions that have been carried out? All we'd be using it for is a 'just in case', and if we're gtting *that* paranoid about the way moderation is seen to be implemented on the board then we've got real, serious problems.

I'm struck that we never had this kind of runaround before the whole distributed moderation thing was introduced, and I wonder if it's always going to be an associated, inescapable consequence of it.
 
 
grant
19:26 / 15.10.03
Recent votes by me:

Helped Lurid delete an empty post of his own.
Helped olula change an “it” to an “is” in her post.
Helped e randy add an apology to flowers in his (randy’s) post.
Helped e randy delete a double post and the subsequent apology for double posting by nowthink.
 
 
grant
19:30 / 15.10.03
I also proposed that E. Randy come over here and sit on uncle grant's lap, but that wasn't really a moderator action. More of an abuse of office to come on to people.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
19:33 / 15.10.03
And I did this...

Helped e randy add an apology to flowers in his (randy’s) post.
Helped e randy delete a double post
and the subsequent apology for double posting by nowthink.
Helped Lurid edit to add the 'controversy' line a few posts above.
 
 
grant
19:43 / 15.10.03
Helped Our Lady add "(PICS)" to the Uh-OH topic title.

Thought briefly about asking Anna out for a cup of coffee or something, but realized I couldn't afford the airfare.
 
 
Lurid Archive
20:23 / 15.10.03
Why does no one come on to me in those moderator actions? Its a conspiracy! Grant has you all running round as his lap dogs.


And I'm not invited.
 
 
Ganesh
23:12 / 15.10.03
Wow. Glad I bailed before this. It's the NHS all over again...
 
 
Spatula Clarke
23:40 / 15.10.03
You're just jealous that Unca grant never let you sit on his knee.
 
 
Ganesh
00:40 / 16.10.03
Unca grant let me sit between his knees.
 
 
Lurid Archive
09:51 / 16.10.03
After some nudging, I was convinced that nowthink is Calo. So I've approved a couple of thread deletion requests, for his topics in the conversation. I also okayed a moderate post action that deletes the post and leaves a marker in the Moderator POV thread.

An exciting morning in moderator land.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
10:17 / 16.10.03
I also agreed to modify the post in the Moderator POV thread as I've been convinced it was Andrew since early yesterday afternoon.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
10:26 / 16.10.03
Yup, I agreed the two delete thread requests- kind of had my suspicions for a while. Not an easy decision, though... I was enjoying the fruit stuff.

Basically, despite having read both threads in question, on receiving the requests I actually went back and spent a while trying to read them from the point of view of someone who'd never had any contact with the board before- and thought, yup, they're pretty offensive threads; this isn't somewhere I'd want to hang out. And, with heavy heart, I agreed both.
 
 
nowthink
10:46 / 16.10.03
Moderator note: this post deleted as the suit belongs to a troll
 
 
grant
12:20 / 16.10.03
I've helped E.Randy edit three nowledge posts because the language use was wrong. I don't mean morally, I mean it became unconvincing.

I've thought fondly of the time Ganesh came and sat on my lap (not in that order) and, yes, found myself walking idly over to where Lurid was sitting, unsure of what to say next.
 
 
grant
14:13 / 16.10.03
Helped Randy re-edit seven of his previous edits.

Edged slightly closer to Lurid without him noticing.
 
  

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