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Material Goods

  
 
illmatic
10:58 / 05.10.03
I was discussing some comments in the Libraries thread with another poster last night and it got me to wondering about the role of material possessions in our lives. My feelings towards books are that I don't need to own them once I've read them, unless it's a topic I'm studying - t'other person said that they like to have 'em around to refer to, if you do want to re-read and so on, to which I countered, if you think of how often you actually do that, probably what? 80-90% of your books will never be used again. I was also put in mind of a friend of mine who has an obscenely huge record collection - 15'000+ - of which I'd estimate 95% will never get played again. So what's the use value in having these things, all this stuff - I suppose the records have some value as capital, esp. the rare ones, but perhaps I'm being too narrow minded in seeing everything as solely having to have utility value (I'm reminded here of a line from the Tao Te Ching - those not in accord with the Tao "have more possessions than they can use", apparently).

Theres's obviously some sort of psychological satisfaction or identity value or something derived from the mountains of stuff we pile up around us. I wonder what people's thoughts on this are, what the role of this stuff might be, because if you stripped naked and urnt it all, you'd still be you. A bit colder at this time of the year, but you nonetheless. Is it sanity or insanity to have this much stuff? Why do we have it, and wnat more?

Following this, is there a correct position to aspire towards - ie the position hinted at in the quote above, when most of your possessions have relevance or utility value? I'm sure there must be some clever ass theorising about this around somewhere, though I'm buggered if I know what it is. Obviously, aspiring to some sage-like point of nonchalence towards all goods and possessions is a false ideal which none of us, living in the West would ever be able to, or want to do (in fact, it seem like another ideal, the exact inversion of the ideal of trying to own everything) but I think this is an interesting point for consideration nonetheless. Do you feel you have too much stuff? How much would you like to have? What's you attitude toward material goods in general, and what does this say about our society?
 
 
Ariadne
11:11 / 05.10.03
I'm pretty good at clearing out, except for books. I'll have a bit of a think about why the books stay, but in the meantime, something to think about:

Last year, Michael Landy destroyed all his possessions. I went along to see it in process and found myself moved and alarmed and intrigued by the idea.

There's more about it here.
 
 
Nietzsch E. Coyote
11:44 / 05.10.03
I am a hoarder with collector tendancies. I don't go out of my way to get stuff but I never give anything up once I have it. I know why I do this. I hang memories on the items the items remind me of something of some state, moment, emotion or lost friend.

I re read books quite frequently. I get to experience the joy or feeling that I did the first time but along with it I experience the differences that my learning brings to the table.
 
 
Seth
15:12 / 05.10.03
I was also put in mind of a friend of mine who has an obscenely huge record collection - 15'000+ - of which I'd estimate 95% will never get played again.

People can have a large collections for a number of reasons. Mine's moderately sized, maybe running at eight hundred to a thousand CDs. Although I don't sample, I do recycle other people's music into my own compositions, and I want to make sure that I always have access to music that will challenge and inspire me. Yes, there are some which rarely get played, but I am ruthless about weeding out stuff that I genuinely have no use for.

I give away a lot of my favourite albums, only to buy them again later (there's something nicer about giving away the actual copy of an album that has bought you so much pleasure, rather than buying a new copy for a gift. It feels more highly charged). I'm the same way with novels, although I'm less inclined to keep a novel, even if I love it. I'm not the rereading type. All my reference books are keepers, though, because I know I'll go back to them. And DVDs only get pruchased if they're one of my all-time favourites, or if I know I'll never get to see it any other way.

I guess my general rule is to only keep things whcih I have a use for, or can see a potential use for. This thread has actually made me want to scour my books a bit and chuck out some shite. Might find a new home for some DVDs, too. We'll see.
 
 
Spaniel
15:23 / 05.10.03
The question of collecting always brings me back to a sometime bugbear: the difference between a comic collector and a comic reader.

Whenever I get into a conversation on the subject of comic-books with someone unfamilar with the form - and quite often with those that are - I'm alwways confronted with the notion that all comic-buyers must be obsessive, completist, anal fanboys - that we simply love a particular book irrespective of the creator teams involved.

That we are interested in comics as some form of juvenile hobby, rather than a viable creative medium.

Rant over.
 
 
No star here laces
15:56 / 05.10.03
Well I got hit with this question fairly square in the face when I moved to singapore, because I had to decide what I would take with me, which in the end was everything.

My attitude is kind of ambivalent.

I'm fully aware that I use all this stuff - all this media (records, books, comics) as an identity crutch, fictionsuit even. It's pretty much a wholly consciously constructed persona that allows me to interact with people in a way that gives me an empty but useful (and even impressive) identity.

It seems to me that media separates us from the 'real' world and supplants notions of morals, character and action with the notion of 'taste'. Taste can be used to determine compatibility, group identity and status.

Without my media, I'd be forced to find wholly new ways of meeting and interacting with people. Of course, I don't actually have to own the stuff to do this, but its very symbolic to be separated from it.

In lots of ways its more aesthetically pleasing to interact directly with the world, without media, and to interact directly with people.

But on the other hand the media landscape that surrounds most of us city-dwellers is much more exciting than the physical one. For someone to choose to have a relationship with concrete, weather and drainage as opposed to 'culture' is a pretty extreme lifestyle decision.

This is never going to be something that there is a black and white answer to, I think we just need to be aware of what this stuff means to us.

Barbelith is a very media-saturated community - virtually everything we discuss here is media in some sense. The head shop is probably the blankest canvas for discussion but threads there always tend towards discussion of media after a while. And the music forum is a blatant of taste where media gladiators slug it out WWE-style as caricatures of their IRL selves.

I think this is kind of relevant to the 'cool-looking' thread in the art forum, actually, because a lot of the subtext of that discussion is "if you dress a certain way, you'd better own the media to back it up".

Also, another question is what it means to 'own' media. People try to claim ownership of media all the time by saying they knew about it first and other expressions of fandom that don't rely on simple possession - even including having the most sophisticated opinion on something e.g. the significance-saturated status of anyone's relationship with Justin Timberlake. So I think that one's dependance on this stuff doesn't necessarily include having to actually possess it.

More significant question, perhaps - would you be willing to give up talking about the media/culture that you consume?
 
 
Mazarine
17:04 / 05.10.03
I almost never clear out anything, and when I do, it's usually under duress. I'll throw away trash, but that's about it. I've also been known to gather all manner of things off the ground. Most recently I've gathered a lens from someone's sunglases, some rusty metal thing that looks like it might be some sort of mathmatical tool, a small blue bear, a fuse, etc, etc.

I have problems.
 
 
bitchiekittie
18:33 / 05.10.03
although I tend to accumulate a lot of crap, I have no problems parting with it. there are a few really useless items that I keep around for their sentimental value - some of my daughter's baby clothes, odds and ends that various people have given me that I don't use. the only item I consistently hold onto regardless of quality is photos. I keep all of them, unless you absolutely cannot see anything in the picture. even the very worst, ugliest, can't see shit picture, I keep becaue it reveals something that happened in my past. even if it's something mundane and dull.
 
 
gingerbop
21:28 / 05.10.03
Im a bit of a hoarder, but I cant wait to move out, and be rid of all this stuff. Like you say, 90% of it I never use. Im sure I only wear about 15 bits of clothing, yet I have hundreds and hundreds. And books- when I open my cupboard, I just feel a surge of guilt for having all these hundreds of books, and rarely reading any but Roald Dahls. Toys. Bits of crap Iv bought in charity shops. I cant wait to have many fewer possesions. But for some reason, I feel I need to move out before I can rid myself of them. They are attached to my house.
 
 
illmatic
11:08 / 06.10.03
Very good points, Laces - how does it feel to have nothing old with you? Good? Nice to see you around again btw.

As you say “This is never going to be something that there is a black and white answer to, I think we just need to be aware of what this stuff means to us”. This is exactly what I was trying to get at - the “fictionsuit” idea – the amount of meaning we transfer or project into goods and by inference, how this drives consumption.

I fount this quote relevant:

We humans have the capacity to create ever more elaborate products and services. We believe in their (our) promise that they will eventually satisfy our desire once and for all. Yet, elusively, they never do. As the psychoanalyst, Jacques Lacan, pointed out, no sooner do we possess our fantastical object of desire than the fantasy dissipates and it becomes an ordinary object again. The spell is broken, and desire passes on to a new object.

From this essay

I think this is certainly something I can see in myself when out shopping – sometimes it seems like your paying for the psychological satisfaction of consumption/acquiring stuff, never mind the objects eventual use value. And the moment you’ve done so, the magic wears off and your focused on the next item. I can see this even more strongly in my mum and other people I know, people with a bit more disposable. Anyone got any comments on this phenomena?

I found the comments about media very interesting. My personal feeling is that while a lot of this stuff serves as a fictionsuit – stuff we clothe ourselves in which is ultimately bollocks, largely meaningless, social signifiers that we all buy into (literally) – I think real meaning/knowledge/self-definition and so on arises from a very small proportion of this stuff but these experiences make us consume more of the same, and because we’re brought up to value acquisition/material goods we accumulate a load of superfluous garbage. I can see this quite clearly with say, my occult books – there’s a few I find/have found absolutely indispensable in determining some of my ideas but the vast majority won’t get re-read or used very much ever again.

I agree with you that “the media landscape that surrounds most of us city-dwellers is much more exciting than the physical one” but to a degree haven’t we always told stories or expressed ourselves in a mediated way to find out about ourselves and each other?

In answer to your last question (which brought to mind LL Cool Jay’s “Can’t live without my radio”) I don’t think I could. Or maybe I could, but my relationships with a lot of my peers would change radically and I don’t know what this would be like. Further thoughts, anyone?
 
 
illmatic
14:57 / 06.10.03
*Desperate bumping*

Here's an old thread on consumption. Really interested in this topic as I think it's going to become increasingly important in our politics.
 
 
No star here laces
00:26 / 07.10.03
Cunting piece of shit pc laptop. Will attempt to recreate yesterday's lost post...

That other consumption thread was great, wonder why it died?

Impasse seemed to be "for something supposedly meaningless, consumption is awfully persistent". i.e. either consumption isn't meaningless or meaning isn't meaningful.

To your point about the reward/lack of reward from shopping - I think the interesting thing is that although the satisfaction is fleeting, the latency is short. In other words the gap between deciding you want something and the reward of owning it is very short. From what I remember of Pavlovian conditioning, this is one of the key factors - things which are instantly gratifying are much quicker to become conditioned, so shopping is probably deeply ingrained on our brains at quite a basic level.

Lots more to say, but too early in morning to say it.
 
  
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