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Underground > Radio & Music >

Holly Valance=Better than Kylie???

I'm Rick Jones, bitch

14:45 / 04.10.03

OK, so I'll never buy her records, but in terms of that Neigbours peer she's so much better it hurts.

Case for the prosecution? "Down Boy" and "Kiss Kiss" vs "I Should Be So Lucky" and "Better the Devil You Know".

Prosecution rests.

Matthew Fluxington

15:26 / 04.10.03

Slow.

Can't Get You Out Of My Head.

Love At First Sight.

Burnin' Up.

I Don't Need Anyone.

Come Into My World (Fischerspooner mix)

In Your Eyes.

The defense rests!

I'm Rick Jones, bitch

15:48 / 04.10.03

I'd like to cross examine defense witness "Can't Get You Out Of My Head" on the grounds that it's slightly crap.

I'd also like to call "Kids" (w/robbie williams, gahhh) as a Witness for the prosecution.

I'm Rick Jones, bitch

15:54 / 04.10.03

I'd also like to call Streetfighter: The Ultimate Battle

16:01 / 04.10.03

I'd like to cross examine the cover for Holly's debut album.

Bears a striking resemblance to a Penthouse or Playboy cover. From 1985. Bad stylist, leave her hair alone!

Regrettable Juvenilia

15:29 / 05.10.03

I'm not at all convinced by Holly Valance's new single - to me, it sounds like she's trying to go electro but ended up sounding like Danni Minogue, which was probably not the desired effect. Maybe I need to hear it without the "look at my ROCK! t-shirt" video, though.

'Kiss, Kiss' and 'Down Boy' were both near-flawless pop singles, but I think Kylie has more quality tunes under her belt, and in the past few years has somehow pulled off the trick of becoming the person who sets the trends (musical and otherwise) rather than follows them. But I don't see much point in comparing two artists at very different stages of their career...

(Quite a lot of previous Holly Valance discussion here, if anyone's interested.)

I'm Rick Jones, bitch

15:57 / 05.10.03

Kylie sets trends? She killed bootlegs* with Can't Get You Of My Head/Blue Monday. Which was a good thing. Thanks Kylie!

Regrettable Juvenilia

16:16 / 05.10.03

People seem to kill things a lot in your worldview...

I'd have to really take issue with the idea that Kylie "killed" bootlegs, and amazingly I have something that almost counts as 'evidence' to back me up: this thread on bootlegs (in which you might like to post your objections to the phenomena) starts in Feb 02 with reference to the CGYOOMH/BM performance at the Brits, and was still going strong ten months later - and it could easily be updated today to include mention of 'Justin Likes Blondes' ('Like I Love You'/'Heart Of Glass') or 'Killer Shower' (Adamski & Seal / Felix Da Housecat). So one could even argue that Kylie helped bootlegs become even MORE popular... oh, hang on - you're not one of those people who uses "kill" to mean "come to the attention of a larger number of people" where music is concerned, are you?

I'm Rick Jones, bitch

16:33 / 05.10.03

Bootlegs were all the rage until that Brit awards. After that I heard of, um, maybe two? But I used to live in a northeast hick town, so I guess I wasn't culturaly that wired.

Matthew Fluxington

17:29 / 05.10.03

Radiator, you're painfully ill-informed. Hundreds, maybe thousands, of bootlegs have been created since that Kylie awards show appearance. The scene practically exploded in the months after that. There are at least a hundred mixes of Eminem's "Without Me" alone! If you kept up with the bootleg sites and were even slightly in the loop on this, you'd know that.

20:16 / 05.10.03

where are all the bootlegged loopers hanging out these days, then? is there a good central linkage spot?

09:27 / 06.10.03

It is shocking how many crap songs will come up on a Kazaa search for "versus". Kylie included.

The Blue Monday one was classy though. She was one of the first to capitalise on a bootleg of her own song.

I'm Rick Jones, bitch

11:35 / 06.10.03

Perhaps in your hood, Flux, but the whole thing fell on it's ass from my perspective.

I'm Rick Jones, bitch

11:39 / 06.10.03

In other words, while people interested in bootlegs (poor dears) can SUPRISE SUPRISE find plenty in their little scene, radio play dropped off almost imediately after that. Perhaps the hipster magazines are still ga-ga for them, I don't know, but no massive bootlegs have, to my knowledge, broken through to the underground since. The fad for them died.

Regrettable Juvenilia

11:46 / 06.10.03

Apart from 'Freak Like Me' by the Sugababes, released in April 02 and a massive, inescapable smash hit in the UK, all over the radio and music TV channels.

Or the subsequent collaborations between Richard X and Liberty X, Kelis, etc.

I'm Rick Jones, bitch

11:49 / 06.10.03

Most of those fall under straight covers, though, right? (so totaly never listening to that guy's album). And as for that terrible Freak Like Me thing, it was released over a bloody year ago.

Less said about the Sugarbabes the better.

I'm Rick Jones, bitch

11:55 / 06.10.03

The point is, Flyboy, you made a (frankly wrong) claim that Kylie "starts trends rather than follows them", and offered no evidence whatsoever. I pointed out that she jumped on the bootleg wagon and helped nip it in the bud, clearly disproving your point. Now you're just nitpicking.

Regrettable Juvenilia

11:58 / 06.10.03

You're missing the point. You've repeatedly claimed that Kylie's performance of 'Can't Get You Out Of My Head/Blue Monday' "killed bootlegs". Two posts ago, you say "radio play dropped off almost imediately after that". But it didn't. Read what I actually write, Radiator: Kylie's performance at the Brits = early 02; 'Freak Like Me' released slightly later in 02. Yes, over a year ago: yes, you may not like it. But the facts contradict your earlier claim. Just like the fact that all three tracks I'm referring to place the vocal for one song over the instrumentation/beat/arrangement for another - so, not straight covers ar all. You may be beginning to notice a trend here. Perhaps a little fact-checking before you make sweeping statements might be in order?

Mind you, since you're so keen to discuss things to which you quickly have to add the disclaimer "so totally never listening to [x]", or "OK, so I'd never buy [y]", and also to use meaningless appeals to shut down further discussion - "less said the better" - I'm not very optimistic about the possibility of progressing to the level of 'informed debate'.

I'm Rick Jones, bitch

12:05 / 06.10.03

I won't buy Richard X because I think he's terrible.

Sugarbabes was a cover of a bootleg, not actually a bootleg. So it's slightly different. And it was horrible.

I'll offer an amended point, however: Kylie AND the Sugarbabes/Richard X/Whoever else helped to kill off the hipster bootleg scene.

So, cutting to the chase, are you going to to offer some justification for your somewhat hollow claim that Kylie "starts trends rather than follows them"?

14:34 / 06.10.03

Ohhh, Radiator. You tried to shit on the Sugababes.

You shouldn't've done that, son.

15:00 / 06.10.03

BUT

(and I don't think I can stress this enough)

Kylie's versus song was 1) a B-side and 2) a performance on a music awards show.
Not a single.
Unlike Liberty/Richard X and Sugababes. And if you WANT to get nitpicky then the Liberty X single was a coevr of a bootleg aswell. DOES IT MATTER?
They didn't 'kill' the bootleg scene just made them go a bit more obscure and exclusive. If you want to point the death of bootlegging finger at anyone point it at that godawful version of Xtina vs The Strokes by some faceless American band. Not good.

Kylie's is also different in that she used the bootleg of her own song and rerecorded it in order to capitalise. So I agree, she doesn't set trends but she's pretty close at copying them and very damn savvy at making her versions look better than those that went before.

Regrettable Juvenilia

15:58 / 06.10.03

So, cutting to the chase, are you going to to offer some justification for your somewhat hollow claim that Kylie "starts trends rather than follows them"?

Sure. Mind if I do it in the thread about Kylie? I assume this one is meant to be about Holly Valance, unless you only started it because you couldn't cope with the idea of posting in a thread with a title you disagreed with, and I'm sure you're bigger than that.

Let me point out though you have now claimed in succession that by the 'death' of bootlegs you mean a) that they are still enjoyed by a tiny circle of hipsters but vanished from the radio - "while people interested in bootlegs... find plenty in their little scene, radio play dropped off almost imediately after that. Perhaps the hipster magazines are still ga-ga for them, I don't know" and b) that they are no longer championned by hipsters, merely existing in a watered-down, chart-friendly form. You can't have it both ways, Radiator. Unless you mean that bootlegs are only popular with a tiny under-underground hipster set *and* the general populace, but have been forgotten by some crucial middle ground of slightly with it music listeners...