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The Skyblue Secure Home for Wayward and Murky Ideation: A Nursery

 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
11:55 / 04.10.03
Here's the skinny:

you have an idea in your head, and you can't get it straight. You have an opinion you want to express, but it's half-arsed and you can't get your head around the issues. You feel something about an accepted idea is backwards and wrong, but you don't know why. You've got this notion about something, but when you say it out loud it seems silly.

This is where you say it.

Rules of the game:

1) If someone posts here, they're not propounding an idea which is fully fledged and able to hold water. You don't get to go after it with a big stick, you try to find the core of it so that it can be expressed fully before it has to live in the wild.

2) If you really, really, really feel you have to object to an idea in this thread, the rule "You broke it, you bought it" applies - you've got to find a way of articulating the concerns in the idea which doesn't offend whatever hat you're wearing.

3) No calling of names, no abstractions from notion (e.g. "I have a worry about immigration, can we afford open borders") to poster or position (e.g. "you're a racist", "that's just neo-colonial global imperialism in a trendy new kaftan").

4) This is a cooperative venture. It won't work unless you all trust and keep the faith. Now get on with it.

________________________________________


Since I've raised the topic: immigration. Clearly there's a right of asylum. Equally clearly the disparities in global wealth will cause economic migration. However, there does also appear to be a crisis in our schools, in affordable housing, and in healthcare in the UK. The greater inclusiveness of our society (greater University attedance etc.) and greater lifespans are, we are told, creating large public services bills we may not be able to pay. Does that mean we can't afford too much immigration? Could we use an indenturing system where, for example, a migrant is trained and then works for the state? A sort of national service?
 
 
Char Aina
12:15 / 04.10.03
what about a very slightly higher tax bracket for immigrants, the balance of which is used to pay their repatriation costs. kinda like a student loan, but longer term and more compulsory to pay back.

as in, within a two year period, say, one should have found gainful employment, and be refilling the states coffers.

perhaps a seperate fund, so as to keep the money visible and make it clear it was being used to pay for whom it was being taken from.



(more compulsory? what the?)
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
14:41 / 04.10.03
(good thread idea, Nick)

Personally, I am already pissed off enough about my tax money NOT going to hospitals, education etc, but to wars that I don't support. I have no problem with my tax going on immigrants... whether "we" can afford it or not is surely more a question of whether the current system, under which we CAN'T, is the best way to go.

(I'm not opposed to taxation, by the way... I'd be all in favour of higher taxes if I thought they were gonna be spent well. Fuck, privatisation just does not seem to work particularly well... and we still end up paying for it.)
 
 
Char Aina
14:53 / 04.10.03
you did see that i meant the immigrants themselves would be the only ones with the extra taxation, yeah? the same way the student loans folks take a wee bit off your wages once you earn.

it would not only be a good way to raise the cash, but may even act as a deterrent to those seeking entry. that, i realise could be a bad thing, if we need more doctors, say.
 
 
Lurid Archive
16:08 / 04.10.03
I'll try to respond in the spirit of the thread. To that end, I'll just pose a few questions that one would need to answer when shaping any immigration policy.

1. Do we, as Nick suggests, have a duty to accept immigrants and in what situations? Is it purely in terms of physical peril? Is economic migration ever to be countenanced.

In answering this, it might be worth bearing in mind which coutries have the largest intake of immigrants. It might also be worth considering, again as Nick points out, the global distribution of wealth and the political consequences of first world immigration policy.

2. If immigration is granted, is it only ever to be (except in some exceptional circumstances perhaps) a temporary measure, necessitating toksik's repatriation fund? If we say yes, what measures are to be taken to ensure that we can keep track of immigrants? Electronic tagging or some more lax regime?

3. If immigrants are allowed into the country, should they be given equal rights as citizens of the host country at any stage? At what stage?

4. Are punitive and deterrent measures a necessary part of immigration policy? If so, should they take primacy over economic considerations? In other words, is it more important to ensure that immigrants obey the rules, pay the "repatriation tax", work in "labour schemes" and so forth, even if that is more costly than alternatives?
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
13:16 / 06.10.03
Leaving that one for anyone else with views to peruse, here's another thought:

Writing differs from Reading in the same way that Flying is different from Parachuting.
 
 
illmatic
13:36 / 06.10.03
I'd say that's a fair comment, but maybe I don't know what I'm talking about as I don't write much (well, bar on here, - maybe that counts). Interesting point though re. choice of metaphor. The choosing of the correct comparative metaphor is something that's made use of in NLP ie consideration is given to which metaphor best transmits your message, bearing in mind target audience, the kind of spin and association you want to build into it, even which sensory modality you should appeal to with the metaphor,that sort of thing. So are you saying writing = soaring the giddy heights of creativity, d'ya think?
 
 
Char Aina
13:55 / 06.10.03
(i was using repatriate wrongly... i meant settling them in this or whatever destination country. not sending folks home)
 
  
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