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GM crops fail trials in UK

 
 
Lurid Archive
08:25 / 02.10.03
From the Guardian,

Two of the three GM crops grown experimentally in Britain, oil seed rape and sugar beet, appear more harmful to the environment than conventional crops and should not be grown in the UK, scientists are expected to tell the government next week.

The Guardian has learned that the scientists will conclude that growing these crops is damaging to plant and insect life.



Which is interesting in that I didn't think that there would be such negative results over such a short time period. Apparently, biodiversity suffered as harsh herbicides were used. It'll be a boost to the Green lobby, though I can't imagine my mate Tony (who has no reverse gear, poor soul) is going to do anything but look serious for a minute and then go ahead with GM anyway. We'll see.
 
 
Ganesh
09:57 / 02.10.03
In the absence of a reverse gear, one has no option but to effect a turn...

I saw this too, and was equally surprised that such an apparently conclusive, err, conclusion was reached so quickly. Aren't GM crops already used widely throughout the US?
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
10:19 / 02.10.03
I tend to think this is the battleground where the first serious Corporate vs. State conflict will be fought. Monsanto et al must get GM products into the Economisphere - an interesting example of the money-making goals of a corporation being in stark opposition to the 'good' of any individual who is part of it - and the public, quite rightly, is against it. The GM lobby is trying to use trade rules and pressure to get around popular rejection of the products - especially by objecting to labelling.

This is a test of how Governments perform against large and powerful lobbies. If this goes well for the GM lobby, I think it may demonstrate a failure of our system of government as a whole, not just a lack of resolve in the Labour party.
 
 
Lurid Archive
10:36 / 02.10.03
What would you say about the situation in the US then, Nick? As I understand it, the GM lobby has won convincingly over there.

Still, I think that one of the problems with GMO is that the science is usually unclear. I think that there are good arguments against GM crops (and some bad ones, Charlie) but they tend not to be about direct harm. Rather they are about unknown and potentially irreversible risk and about coroprate power. This study changes that somewhat, but I think a government could still argue, and convince at least itself, that the benefits outweigh the risks.

Looked at globally, there are some difficult situations that may arise. Suppose that the EU manages to ban, or limit or simply not buy, GM food. Also suppose that Monsanto et al manage to get a firm grip on third world food production so that the majority of it becomes GM. The EU ban would then serve as a de facto trade tarriff of the kind that most Greens would oppose.
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
12:12 / 02.10.03
I'd say that right now, the US is governed by a Whitehouse completely uninterested in the possibility that US economic interests - for which read 'the short-term interest of large industries and corporate lobbies operating in the US' - are not identical with US political and social interests and global policy agenda.

The industries set the agenda, and science and policy run to keep up, as far as I can see. From the Esquire article which I seem to be quoting everywhere at the moment - a senior Whitehouse Official talks about the way it works: "many of us feel it’s our duty—our obligation as Americans—to get the word out that, certainly in domestic policy, there has been almost no meaningful consideration of any real issues. It’s just kids on Big Wheels who talk politics and know nothing. It’s depressing. Domestic Policy Council meetings are a farce. This leaves shoot-from-the-hip political calculations—mostly from Karl’s shop—to triumph by default." (link)

There's a weird disjunct between reality and policy in that description which is not unfamiliar from the British government at the moment. Blair's "listen more" strategy is interesting, and the GM debate is going to be a test. Quite apparently, the public is not in favour of GM without considerably more research - the question is whether Blair will accept that mandate or whether he'll view the issue as a problem of public image and try to convince the UK that GM is okay. What he needs to understand is that he works for us, not the GM industry, and we're not stating an opinion, we're giving him his marching orders.
 
 
Thjatsi
15:36 / 02.10.03
In the United States, genetically modified crops are regulated by the US Department of Agriculture, the Environmental Protection Agency, and the Food and Drug Administration. It depends on the specific product, but just about everything that is genetically modified has to make it past one or all of these government organizations. So, I think it's a little unfair to assume that your friends on the other side of the atlantic have their fingers in their ears and are mindlessly screaming, "Capitalism! Capitalism! RAH RAH RAH!"

I know that you are distrustful of your government regulatory agencies after the CJD incident, and I don't blame you. But, Americans have been eating GM crops for years now, and as far as we can tell, no one has died yet.

I think the primary difference between our two countries on this issue isn't shoot from the hip politics, but the precautionary principle. I have to admit that I don't understand this concept. My epistemology states that the burdern of proof must always rest on the person who asserts the positive. But, the precautionary principle shifts that burden to the person who asserts the negative. In this case, advocates of GM technology must perform study after study to prove that there are no problems. However, something tells me that I'm approaching this concept in the wrong way, and I'm open to correction if you can convince me that my theory of knowledge is incorrect.

On that study, I'm not an ecologist, but their methods seemed a little sketchy. I'm not quite sure what slug and insect collections really tell you about the quality of the environment. I would also like to see the statistical analysis and confidence intervals, which that article doesn't give.
 
 
Lurid Archive
16:46 / 02.10.03
Good question, Thjatsi. While I think you are right, in terms of epistemology, I think that the precautionary principle is more along the lines of risk analysis. The point being that, while epistemelogically speaking, it makes sense to favour scepticism, this is really only appropriate in furthering knowledge. When it comes to action, there can well be cost associated with different decisions, and one strives to minimise harm within reasonable bounds.

Of course, reasonable is up for grabs, but the point remains. Now, in trying to minimise harm, one tries to make guesses as to the likelihood of certain dangers and the cost of those in terms of harm (and often money, but lets leave that too).

This means that you will sometimes act in ways that look as if you are assuming some unwarranted conclusion. Actually, what you are doing is avoiding the harm of certain actions without really committing to the conclusion that a certain course of action will cause harm. So if a random person hands you a pill and tells you to swallow, you don't do it even though you may have no evidence to believe it will be harmful. No evidence of harm is distinct from evidence of no harm. As people who support the precautionary principle would say.

When it comes to GM foods there are several concerns. One is about the impact on biodiversity, which could well have knock on effects in the long term that are hard to predict. The problem with this kind of concern is that small scale and short term trials are unlikely to uncover a problem even if there is one.

Another problem, and you'll know more about this than me, is the impact on wildlife of introducing GMO into the environment. This concern is not about biodiversity, which is more to do with herbicide and pesticide use. How will organisms adapt, if at all, to genetically distinct crops? Will there be some kind of gene transfer (I know that sounds ridiculous, see here)?

Now you add in the problem that GM crops seem to be dominant, in some sense. That is, you cannot have non-GM crops anywhere near GM crops as the former quickly seem to become the latter. (I believe that there is a case where a farmer was sued for using GM crops without license and it transpired that the cause was that his field was next to a GM field.)

The problem with all of these is that the risks are potentially huge and likely irreversible. By the time we see whether any of my concerns are justified it will probably be too late. Or, in the words of Kryten, "And we are going to.....LIVE!".

Add to this, the corporate concerns - the US is fighting pretty hard against EU moves to label GM foods as such, for instance. The issues in terms of poverty, the terminator gene gives corporate control of food. All in all you have an extremely suspect package, IMO.
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
17:45 / 02.10.03
Thjatsi - the debate about GM isn't just about crops, it's about all kinds of tinkering. I don't have specific studies related to crops to hand, although there's been some media coverage suggesting that results here suggest they significantly damage the food web and so on. Consider, however, the issue of rBST (or, if you have lived in the US since the 90s, you may wish to run around in circles with your fingers in your ears).

Monsanto discovered in the 80s that it was possible to engineer bacteria to produce a chemical, rBST, which increased the milk yield of cows by up to 15%. Unfortunately, it appears that it also increases the incidence of mastitis in cows by 39% (cows with mastitis - inflammation of the udders - need antibiotics, the widespread use of which increases the risk of superbugs). By 1997, concerns were being raised about the possible negative effects of rBST on humans. Eight separate studies also found a 19% rise in somatic cells ("more prosaically, pus" link) in milk from cows treated with rBST. Monsanto's own information sheet is here (link).

The drug works by producing more of another chemical, IGF-1, which governs milk production. IGF-1 is identical in humans and cows, and there is evidence (link) showing the IGF-1 levels are higher in milk from cows treated with rBST. IGF-1 is not broken down by digestion and some 67% passes into the bloodstream. It is strongly linked to prostate and breast cancer.

The US allowed (and as far as I know still allows) rBST-produced milk from 1993 onwards. There is considerable pressure on the EU to allow it in Europe - the EU refusal is characterised as 'political'.

In other words, it's entirely possible that people have died in the US because of a GM product.

With a track record like that knocking around, do you see why people aren't in a rush to accept the GM industry's word for it that the crops are one hundred per cent safe? Reading that Monsanto infosheet, you'd think it was just a bunch of loonies who reject rBST. In fact, it's every developed nation in the world except America, and many pressure groups inside the US. So yes, I'd say endorsement from independent studies is the very least of what I'd look for before I accept that GM agriculture is a benefit, and not a threat.

I got my start on this issue from George Monbiot's thoroughly-footnoted chapter in 'Captive State', but it's not hard to find discussion of this and related issues on the net.

As I said, this is in part a battleground between the interests of corporations and consumers, and who exactly is represented by Government.
 
 
gingerbop
00:55 / 05.10.03
Mwuh-huh-huh.
Im glad they failed. I just hope someone listens to them.
They're never gonna make money from it, from growing it in the UK anyway. Near me, dozens of people took their lawnmowers into the fields; there was very little of anything left.
 
 
Strange Machine Vs The Virus with Shoes
01:05 / 05.10.03
Never forget what the British Prime Minister said, GM food will be tested until it is found to be safe. Not if it is found to be safe.
 
 
Lurid Archive
15:01 / 05.10.03
In an interesting development, The Royal Society has something to say about the Guardian article.

“This attempt by ‘The Guardian’ to summarise in a soundbite the entire contents of the eight scientific papers has not been checked for accuracy by either the authors of the papers, who carried out the farm scale evaluations, or the journal. In fact, it does little more than repeat much of the content of a similarly speculative article that appeared in ‘The Independent’ newspaper on 2 August.

“The article in ‘The Guardian’ is wrong about the publication date of the scientific papers, even though that information was made public three weeks ago, and misrepresents the journal’s reasons for rejecting a ninth paper about the farm scale evaluations. You can draw your own conclusions about how accurate the rest of the article is likely to be.”
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
11:08 / 08.10.03
Monbiot on GM.

Because they cannot persuade us to eat what we are given, many of Britain's genetic engineers are turning their attention to countries in which people have less choice about what or even when they eat. The biotech companies and their tame scientists are using other people's poverty to engineer their own enrichment. The government is listening. Under Clare Short, Britain's department for international development gave £13m to researchers developing genetically engineered crops for the poor nations, on the grounds that this will feed the world.
 
  
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