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NamShuB

 
 
Nietzsch E. Coyote
11:51 / 27.09.03
Welcome,

Because I am a bard I will speak us on a bardo.
Because my voice is only text,
You will need to imagine yourself with me us.

You are standing on a harvested field.
Before you is a river of fire.
On the other side there exists a volcanic island.

Do you die to LIVE ?
 
 
Nietzsch E. Coyote
11:53 / 27.09.03
The preceding post is an example of BARDIC for an attempt at an explanation go to the Re: birth = {me, you, we} ? thread
 
 
h3r
00:27 / 29.09.03
I'm trying to be positive and not talk shit.

I have not said a word despite closely following the other thread by IcdU2, you've all been there, you know which one I'm referring too

in my oninion this is just cryptic crap, but it does seem to provide entertainment for many of us. but for heaven's sake, one thread is enough!

I do not believe this is a functioning namshub at all !!
it seems a bit self indulgent to present all this stuff under the pretense that it actually is the "ultimate truth"....
once again, this namshub doesn't work, or rather, it's not a namshub!
it does make for interesting poetry though.

why dont you buy a book on NLP or something and try to incorporate that into your "namshubs" ?
 
 
eye landed
00:57 / 29.09.03
While reading
1.0 very d
usty book
FROM
behind all (oo) the others

...

(UNEXPECTEDLY) k!cked in the teeth
an INEXPLICABLY
hostile alien
!ntelligence manifest
AS
1.0 (pizza)
Ma5K ... (!) O.T.

F0R FR33
*and beautifull {-
 
 
Nietzsch E. Coyote
02:58 / 29.09.03
why dont you buy a book on NLP or something and try to incorporate that into your "namshubs" ?

Read the other thread closer. This does incorporate NLP.
 
 
Quantum
09:22 / 29.09.03
Quick question, how should the voices sound in my head? When I read "Blah blah fishcakes!" it sounds to me like a whisper, normal and raised voices respectively. Is that the intended reading?
Trying to open the channels of communication just a little wider, so a passing reader can sift some meaning from this without having to research for hours to grasp your bardic.
 
 
I The Golden Dawn-nie Darko U
09:59 / 29.09.03
ÿøur pøin†lëss pøs†s hërë and ¡n the ؆hër †hrëad are baffl¡ng.

Ý üse yøur vø¡ce ønly to say yøu døn'† ündërs†and and døn't care that yøu døn'† ündërs†and and be a b¡t of a d¡ck about it?

Gø l¡e døwn and avøid these †hreadz.

 
 
Quantum
11:16 / 29.09.03
Okey Dokey I don't care to understand this.
 
 
illmatic
12:00 / 29.09.03
Would anyone care to explain to me what a namshub is? How they work, intentions etc. And GDDD, it's an open forum so I think comments are fair enough especailly if someone is being (what appears to be) self- consciously cryptic.
 
 
Rev. Wright
12:37 / 29.09.03
Now Looking Pretentious
 
 
cusm
14:39 / 29.09.03
h0w !$ 1h!$ ne B3113|2 1h@n 01h3|2 f0|2M$ 0v 7331 $p33|
LOL U SUXX0R$!!!

Really now, that's about as polite as what you guys are doing lately. It does not allow for discussion, it is not well received, and its only end effect is one of personal ranting and posturing by the poster. If you want to rant your manifesto in a kooky psudo speak, set up a website and do it there, as is time honored net traditon. Don't do it here.

If you want to discuss or experiment with language structures, start one (1!!!) thread prefaced with a readable english overview so others can participate in a friendly and acedemic manner as is the accepted style of this board. Inaccessible threads do not contribute to discussion and clutter the board with garbage. Starting multiple threads like this constitutes spamming. Invading other threads with it is distuptive and trollish. Spamming and trollish behavior calls for moderator action.

Please play nice. Thank you.
 
 
h3r
15:11 / 29.09.03
....what cusm sayz... no more spam!!

and in reply to this

Read the other thread closer. This does incorporate NLP.

I did read the other thread closely. it just appears to as though there is no NLP involved in your "namshub", that's whay I suggested that some further research into the subject might be helpful...
 
 
h3r
15:22 / 29.09.03
and here a brief explanation in regards to illmatic's inquiry re: namshub
Would anyone care to explain to me what a namshub is?

I read of them in Neal Stephenson's "snowcrash". I believe he invented the term for his fiction, and it's not yet being used "officially".... I could be wrong.

Stephenson describes a namshub as a powerful spell that reprograms/rewires a humans brain, similar to what NLP does, only a bit more "poermanent" and "irrepairable. Phyiscal connections or new paths are actually created in the brain ( I guess to some extent that is also true for NLP).
If I remember correctly the namshub can be be administered in various ways, as a drug/virus ( injected, in food,etc) by looking at a visual depiction of the virus pattern via a computer screen, by hearing the "glossolia"like sounds containing the virus, etc. A namshub is by definition somewhat contagious. Apparently the Sumerians used a namshub to create language as we know it.
 
 
illmatic
15:56 / 29.09.03
Thanks, H3R. I've read Snowcrash but I'd completely forgotten about that idea. I wonder if the word is a transliteration of Sumerian? Does sound a bit like it (going from my vast knowledge of conversational Sumerian and not, like, making that enquiry up to sound clever or anything).

I can't see how this or the other thread contain any NLP either but I would be open to some explanation. From my limited knowledge of the subject, surely it wouldn't work in a text-based medium like this board? Doncha' need access to someone's sensory cues, active feedback and the like to carry out these techniques? It's a bit like trying to hypnotise someone through a monitor.

Listen closely.

You are feeling sleepy.

Very sleepy.


Now... You want to give Illmatic all your cash.


And a backrub for Set.
 
 
C.Elseware
16:10 / 29.09.03
Also posting a text which is intended to have a magickal effect on the reader is fucking rude. It shows a remarkable lack of respect for your peers here.

The topic abstract does not show up from the front page, so does not serve as an adequate warning. At the very least put the magickal equivalent of a "spoiler warning" with a decent covering text (as someone said above).

Also please give more information in general. I am interested in whatever it is you're trying to convey, but you attempt communicate it in a way that most people here find confusing and irritating.
 
 
C.Elseware
16:17 / 29.09.03

To put it another way... If I went to a meeting for a group of pharmacologists, I don't expect them to sneakily put their new inventions in my drink to see what they do. I consider this much the same.

Is there a policy on people attempting magickal workings on the board?
 
 
h3r
18:10 / 29.09.03
despite my contempt and annoyance with this whole fake wanna-be namshub business I am posting again ...
it's interesting how all this crap is keeping everyone's attention, even though many of the posts are complaints.... nevertheless ,we all seem to be compelled to say SOMETHING here... there havent been that many posts in that short time interval on nay other threads lately....

so heres is another perspective on all this:
this could be a carefully thought out reality breaching project
( I dont think it was intended to be such, but intent doesnt really matter in the end I guess)

by putting up some fake info under the prtense of revealing soime "information" or whatever, a situation is created in the readers that allows them to doubt their own belief systems and reality.
I mean just by talking, complaining, asking questions, we are learning stuff.
like:
-is it ethical to experiment with other people on this board? ( thats not what is actually happening, but the question is being raised after all!!!)
-is it fair to speak in cryptic codes that only very few understand ( all this crap is not a code but rather incoherent pseudo code, but we are wondering about the basic concept and relevance of cryptolanguage in general)
-what is NLP? ( this dada-poem is NOT nlp, but now many of us are gaining new info on NLP by talking and researching I suspect.)
the list can be continued.

so whoever is abehind this ( I also buy into the earlier mentioned idea of a ICDU2 being a collective rather than one person) is either knowingly or unknowlingly creating a breeding ground for debate and .
growth. I dont really think this is planned and intended by the creators

maybe I'm totally biased and see reality breaching experiments everywhere I look. And I guess if they are not intentionally created for the "breaching" purpose they should be called something else. but the effects are the same...interesting

so ICDU2 riddle me this, are you familiar with "studies in ethnomethodology"?
 
 
cusm
18:44 / 29.09.03
NamShuB... if the Sh is one letter (as in the Hebrew Shin), isn't that Bushman spelled backwards?

I have yet to read Snowcrash dispite it sitting on my desk for months. I should get around to that. The idea of a Namshab is interesting, though. But the whole idea rests more on the theory of subliminal programming. Like, your subconscious will process what you perceive even if your conscious mind misses it. There was a stink about using this to advertise in the '70s, with the practice being made illegal. However, recently released studies have shown that subliminal advertising did not produce any noticable effects in test groups. So maybe this whole idea is a bit flawed to begin with?

The idea that information received but not understood could still affect the mind is an interesting one, I'll admidt. I can certainly see how it might work. But does it? When we understand something is when changes are made in our brains to file the new information and link it with previous experience. And this understanding is a very conscious process. The moment of Eureka does not creep up on one in sleep, but is a blindingly obviously moment of conscious clarity. Now, it might be a workable approach to give someone segments of an idea until they can piece the whole thing together and understand the results, like studying koans to grasp enlightenment. However, there still has to be enough of a parsable idea there to work on. Cryptic encoding won't work if you can't parse it. So, its just stored as general word data or something else. There may be hidden meaning, but if you can't sense it, you don't receive it. You may hold the data, but its not working on your consciousness unless you can think about it. You also have to be willing to parse it. For example, if you are not seriously trying to understand the purpose of a koan, "What was your name before you were born?" is just a silly question. If koans require conscious work to digest, it follows that a namshab would as well.

So I think the whole idea is flawed, and you can produce a much more effective namshab by carefully and slowly explaining the idea in question to someone in easy to digest terms they can understand. Or hypnotising them first to make them suggestable enough to want to parse what you're feeding them. Ideally both.

And that sceptic article on NLP was really amusing, by the way.
 
 
I The Golden Dawn-nie Darko U
19:27 / 29.09.03
it's an open forum

Ãye l@ssie! But iz it an øpen-m¡nded førum?

Thee jury iz s†¡ll øu† on that Øne!

 
 
Nietzsch E. Coyote
22:22 / 29.09.03
The NamShub should effect you on the exact same level as poetry. It is multi-layered using essentially poetic techniques and the emphasis is just a device learned off of concrete poetry.

It is Bardic because it is what a bard does. I am speaking the myths to communicate to us about the archtypical and fundamental levels of our reality. Levels of our awareness neglected by most but that shouldn't be neglected by those of us who consider ourselves mages and seekers.

By using the emphasis consistantly we will teach you what they mean. Then you can teach us what it means to you.

"I am here and you are here and we are all together"

or

"Love is the Law. Love under will."
 
 
h3r
23:03 / 29.09.03
i repeat my question:
so ICDU2 riddle me this, are you familiar with "studies in ethnomethodology"?

IcdU2: I'm starting to become accepting of your cryptoposts, but it's really impolite and uncool that you keep ignoring questions.... what's up with that? are you too cool for us?
 
 
Nietzsch E. Coyote
23:28 / 29.09.03
I have a passing familiarity with ethnomethodology perhaps but not with "studies in ethnomethodology" in particular. Would you care to explain what that is and why you felt it to be a good question to ask?

by putting up some fake info under the prtense of revealing soime "information" or whatever, a situation is created in the readers that allows them to doubt their own belief systems and reality.
I mean just by talking, complaining, asking questions, we are learning stuff.


By jove you are catching on too quick, time to get MORE cryptic. Although strictly speaking the info I am putting up is not "fake". It is just rather dense and to condense it I have resorted to various systems and shorthands. Most of the short hands and systems are described in the re: birth thread. A little digging and work should decode how the emphasis is being used.

So I think the whole idea is flawed, and you can produce a much more effective namshab by carefully and slowly explaining the idea in question to someone in easy to digest terms they can understand.

Nope the more effective namshub is created by making you work to understand it. Only through the practice do you internalize it.

I am just playing Plato showing the slave he has the axioms of Geometry in him already.

"Do you think that is air you are breathing?"

"You already know what I am trying to tell you."

"There is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path."
 
 
h3r
02:08 / 30.09.03
icdu2, i understand pretty much that whole last post of yours!!!

"studies in ethnomethodology" is h. garfinkel's original work that started the whole reality breaching idea, (as seen around castanedas work, the smart/flash mob fad, etc).
if you actually are familiar with ethnomethodology, that would explains quite a bit to me....

I'm sorry but I don't think I'll get around to digging and figuring out by what rules and regulations you use the emphasis, i have my enochian tablets to color first.... :}

over and out, gotta run....
 
 
Rev. Wright
07:35 / 30.09.03
QUESTION: Is IcdU2 actually the return of that annoying innercircle troll from many moons ago?

The lack of consitent and thought out posting on subjects and the denial of response to the threads, plus what gets me is the use of the term 'we'.

By using the emphasis consistantly we will teach you what they mean. Then you can teach us what it means to you.
 
 
C.Elseware
07:56 / 30.09.03
Colouring the tablets was way more fun than this.

I hate cryptic crosswords, that doesn't tend to be how my intelligence can be applied.

My contempt is rising for people wbo say things like "it's your fault you don't understand" after failing to adequately explain.

This all smacks of elitism to me. It *could* be that it is a clever idea based on information and a way of thinking outside my experience. Which, without some signposts is elitism.

So Mr UCDU, how about creating a namshub that could make people understand your jibber?

Maybe I miss the point of bards. But weren't their stories inherrently interesting without understanding the lessons. Not just drug addled jabber? I want stories about squirells, grasshoppers or their modern equivalents.

Please answer my above acusation also. Please explain how it's OK to be posting workings on this forum.

Although h3r's pointed out that there's some interesting discussion as a side effect of all this.

By using the emphasis consistantly we will teach you what they mean. Then you can teach us what it means to you. - Please explain what you mean by "we".
 
 
Nietzsch E. Coyote
08:55 / 30.09.03
QUESTION: Is IcdU2 actually the return of that annoying innercircle troll from many moons ago?

Answer: No. I am or was Fenris 23 and later Nietzsch E. Coyote. Completely different personage. Hahahaha but that is funny though.

Please explain what you mean by "we".

Okay, we = I + you OR We= {fenris23, N E C, ICDU2} my three incarnations on this board OR WE = the International Collective Discollective Union. We could equal my clique. We could represent the board as understood as a Gestalt self. We could mean ALL of the ABOVE.

the denial of response to the threads

I don't know what you are talking about here I have been working hard to respond in this and the other thread. Some people here seem to have a need attack what doesn't seem familiar to them. I am trying to explain circuit five and six using circuit three, could you stop using cirtuit one and two for a moment?

Colouring the tablets was way more fun than this.

If it isn't fun for you, why are you still here? If it wasn't fun for me I wouldn't be here.

So Mr UCDU, how about creating a namshub that could make people understand your jibber?

I did but what I didn't do is make one that would eliminate the work that it requires.

Please answer my above acusation also. Please explain how it's OK to be posting workings on this forum.

Accusations? *sigh* I said, "The NamShub should effect you on the exact same level as poetry[,]" because IT IS POETRY. According to my writers group it is even good poetry.

Perhaps these are zen koans, riddles that lead you to a contradiction in your world view and in the process of resolving them you stand a chance to WAKE UP!
 
 
cusm
17:28 / 30.09.03
By using the emphasis consistantly we will teach you what they mean.

As a point of technical critique then, I suspect the problem with the negative reaction these are bringing is the overuse of the technique. If you litter your text with too much emphasis, its more than can be easily parsed, and the result is garbeled. Sprinkling the occasional emphasis in however, is quite effective. But if you overuse the tool, it degenerates into noise.
 
 
eye landed
17:52 / 30.09.03
Oh! Now I get it! It's 20 questions!

1. Is there a bridge across the river of fire?
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
09:45 / 01.10.03
Okay, this whole thing a bit of a dissapointment. You start out all "Warning! Memetic activity! Memetic activity that's gonna kick your head in your head's nuts, it's so awesome!" and then there's just a bunch of |33+ 5p33|<.

This is needlessly exclusionary. For a start, we do have readers for whom English is not a first language, you know. For another thing: you're not actually saying anything very much, apart from some standard-issue gubbins about how clever the IcdU people all are, and how anyone who disagrees with them or asks them to clarify their posts is either stupid or wicked.

Personally I'd prefer it if people could avoid using the t-word in connection with the IcdU threads, as it's not very helpful. I do, however, find the word "clique" on the tip of my tongue.
 
 
Nietzsch E. Coyote
10:35 / 01.10.03
Mordant, I don't see where you got any of this out of posts that I have made.

For a start, we do have readers for whom English is not a first language, you know.

Its written in fairly BASIC english and the only hard words are the Name which a thread has started to discuss and Bardo which means the period between death and rebirth. They could have been googled. I am not responsible for the posts of other people. I think there has been an undue level of hostility aimed at my threads of late. Just read it follow the link analyze it as poetry. There you go not hard. If people are not enjoying the thread THEY don't HAVE to keep reading it. If they don't like it they don't HAVE to keep posting.

{{},{}},{{},{}},{{},{}}

Here I will do a line by line analysis and all of this is stuff that was found by others who were reading it as a POEM:

Because I am a bard I will speak us on a bardo.

The speaker is claiming to be a bard who tells the stories of the tribe the myths. And will tell of the monomyth of the death and rebirth journey of the hero a la joseph campbell.

Because my voice is only text,

here the writer acknowledges that this is written rather than the oral tradition of old.

You will need to imagine yourself with me us.

a sentence similar to hypnotic induction that requests the reader to visualize or otherwise imagine the poem. This is an explication of the process the reader will likely go through regardless.

You are standing on a harvested field.

Here the poet has begun his guided visualization. He has started with standard imagery of the earth of completion on the earthly plane. Notice the staticness of the "standing".

Before you is a river of fire.

Indicating the future and a dangerous or fearful obstical. Notice the more dynamic quality of the river. This could be death after a completed life.

On the other side there exists a volcanic island.

Affirmation of faith in the afterlife or a spiritual reward.

Do you die to LIVE ?

Challenge to the reader. Do they accept death in a spiritual or physical form as the cost of the spirtual reward. Are you born again? Do you want the kingdom of heaven within you? are you willing to face the music? Rather heavy handed here.

The poem seems to indicate that the speaker experienced a VALIS moment and is trying to lead others to the same point.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
12:30 / 01.10.03
Sorry, I was unclear. I was not referring specifically to posts made by the suit currently known as IcdU2, but to a prevailing vibe which seems (to me) to originate from the IcDU group as a whole. Since I don't know who's in this group and who's not, I'm having to guess from such hints as having IcDU somewhere in one's nick, use of the first person plural, etc. I could be completely wrong.

For instance, I have to question the thinking behind a post like:

ÿøur pøin†lëss pøs†s hërë and ¡n the ؆hër †hrëad are baffl¡ng.

Ý üse yøur vø¡ce ønly to say yøu døn'† ündërs†and and døn't care that yøu døn'† ündërs†and and be a b¡t of a d¡ck about it?

Gø l¡e døwn and avøid these †hreadz.


However, I stand by my original comments, and therefore express my thanks for the explanation given above by IcDU2. Much more helpful.
 
 
LVX23
18:02 / 01.10.03
Mordant, what the hell are you talking about?

icDU2 has clearly stated that he's using "we" to refer to his multiple incarnations on the board. Nietzsche E. Coyote, Fenris23, and icDU2. They're all the same person, not some clique conspiring to overthrow the board through oblique postings. Give the guy a break. He's had an awakening and is trying to work through it on Barbelith because he loves the Barb- and I should add that if you know him as Nietzsche , you'd see just how much of an active and productive member he's been.


I think there has been an undue level of hostility aimed at my threads of late.

I agree.
 
 
LVX23
18:07 / 01.10.03
Mord, I reread your post and mine seems a bit harsh now. I'm suffering a bit from the jumpiness that seems to be in the air around these parts lately. My reaction was, well, reactionary, assuming you were seeing icDU2 as another troll gang - a very touchy topic as of late. And I worked with Nietzsche on the PHD Wiki here so I have a fondness for the guy.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
18:17 / 01.10.03
I'll try and keep this short because it has nothing to do with this thread, but the question deserves an answer.

I've never accused anyone of "trying to overthrow the board". The most I've done is request clarification on a thread which I felt to be abstruse, and to suggest that certain comments were rude and exclusionary.

As to the whole IcdU business: Here's an extract from the post where it all seemed to start. 1. We, at the Ic-dU? (International Collective Discollective Union), have an interest in keeping BARBELITH a fun place to come LIVE..

If IcdU it's the product of someone's imagination, that imagination is not mine.

I have no idea if there's more than one person involved, or if there's anything to be involved in, but there's at least one other person on the board whose ficsuit contains "IcdU".

If you want to discuss this further, I suggest starting another another thread.
 
  
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