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Quicksilver - SPOILERS

 
  

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nedrichards is confused
10:09 / 24.09.03
According to my email spies Neal Stephenson's longly awaited (at least by me) new novel Quicksliver is coming out today/yesterday and as such I'll just be popping down to the bookshop to pick it up.

In the meantime and in lieu of early discussion since it's trailed at a goodly 900 pages I thought I'd leave you the happy happiness of a Wiki, started by the immortal Neal himself to discuss the book and the issues and characters mentioned within.
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
12:41 / 24.09.03
You unbelievably enormous bastard. Now I will not get any work done until I've read the damn thing.

Blast.
 
 
Kit-Cat Club
13:00 / 24.09.03
I've just read the Amazon blurb.

Now I will not get any work done until I've read the damn thing.


Neither will I...
 
 
The Strobe
13:13 / 24.09.03
2nd October, according to Amazon. Have been eagerly anticipating for a long while. 17th century math and natural philosophy, and all slightly overwritten to boot. Should be a hoot.

Also, the wiki looks like it's going to be a superb resource for Stephenson's geekier readers... promise me we'll start a thread here too, though?
 
 
Kit-Cat Club
13:20 / 24.09.03
Well, this will do, won't it? I'll add some spoiler warnings and we're off...
 
 
invisible_al
15:31 / 24.09.03
Well it's Stephenson, it's got cryptography in and it's got the birth of the scientific revolution along with Newton, Hooke and Leibniz.
I'm sold, cool I'll even be able to afford it as I get paid at the end of the month
 
 
nedrichards is confused
11:29 / 25.09.03
HarperCollins sent me an email saying it was the 23rd but they may be America. If so, lucky America.

Books etc. in the o2 centre said 1st oct this evening.
 
 
Imaginary Mongoose Solutions
23:32 / 25.09.03
I have it in my hands... Must go read.

America got it Tuesday.
 
 
Kit-Cat Club
06:58 / 26.09.03
FWIW Borders have jumped the gun as usual - I was in the local one last night and they had a large stack of shiny, new, slightly reduced copies.

It's a damned, thick, square book, I am happy to report.
 
 
Ariadne
10:31 / 26.09.03
Ooh, must go and get this today.
 
 
nedrichards is confused
15:34 / 26.09.03
SPOILERSPACE should be added to the title once moderators assent.

In the meantime here's a preview released onto the books official website a little while ago. First reactions to anyone who's read Cryptonomicon: Enoch Root is an exceedingly long lived individual.
 
 
Ariadne
20:02 / 26.09.03
Okay, I have it. I daren't look back here till I've finished it.
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
14:00 / 09.10.03
Well. Nine hundred pages makes a jolly good opening bid, doesn't it?

I enjoyed it, I feel satisfied and intrigued, but I need to read it again before I get all of it.

A few specifics - if you haven't gathered that this is a SPOILERS thread, now is the perfect time to close this window...

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Okay, so Eliza's baby - I was irked by the sense that Stephenson Agatha Christied us a bit: sort of 'but now, dear reader, I shall reveal the actual truth!'

Other than that, is anyone else wondering whether Enoch Root is a family name or whether there's an immortal running around this series? There's a lot of coy hints suggesting he's not aging. If anyone knows the definitive answer from sources other than the book, please don't tell me!
 
 
nedrichards is confused
22:01 / 11.10.03
Nick: almost certain he's not aging. Not least from the pretty broad hint in Crypotnomicon but no knowledge more than that.

I'm about 100 pages in myself and enjoying it immensely. As a warning it's called the Baroque cycle for a reason, if you don't like his style of writing stear well away. If you do, there are some utter tour de force passages. It feels a bit like Mason & Dixon (but if you didn't like that then don't be put off, it isn't much like it) although thankfully with significantly less 17thC dialogue.

Must head off to read more about the making of modernity. Wish I'd listened more in my early modern classes now, damn hindsight.
 
 
bjacques
13:33 / 12.10.03
I'm about 70 pages in. I like geeky historical novels , having polished off Luther Blissett's "Q" this summer, but I'm a little dissatisfied there aren't too many women in it yet.
 
 
at the scarwash
17:58 / 13.10.03
Is Enoch Root the Wandering Jew? Don't ask me why, but it just seemed to make sense to me.
 
 
bjacques
09:03 / 27.10.03
I thought of that too, but probably not. There are no hints that he might be, unless Ahasuerus got over living out a curse and found a new purpose in life, essentially becoming a totally different person.

He could be a lot of things, maybe even the literal Mercury, aka Hermes, the Messenger of the Gods. He certainly has a knack for imparting timely bits of news. But I'll go with a) somebody who really did discover or drink from, the Elixir of Immortality or b) a mutant, and leave it at that. By the time of Cryptonomicon, he presents himself as a priest or a monk; like nuns, priests are pretty much anonymous. His very existence is pretty much a mockery to a scientific age, certainly to a Newtonian one.

I liked Quicksilver A LOT; I'm a big fan of historical novels and am especially interested in this period. The little joint adventure of Charles II and Louis XIV in 1672 also eventually drove Amsterdam's mayor of the time to madness. You can see the result on the front of his house even today.

I can't wait for the next volume to arrive.
 
 
bjacques
09:06 / 27.10.03
I was going to say if you're immortal it's not a bad idea to present yourself as a priest or nun, automatically pigeonholed, unscrutinized, by everyone else.
 
 
at the scarwash
17:51 / 27.10.03
The fake invasion of Batavia was delicious. Does anyone know any sources dealing with things like the celebratory water pageant Stephenson has occuring in Paris afterwards? My roommate is writing a paper dealing with the uses of water in theatre, and that would be really helpful.

The man makes ideas dance.
 
 
The Falcon
19:29 / 28.10.03
I'm about 150 pages in, but Enoch = Merlin, no?
 
 
Ariadne
14:57 / 31.10.03
I don't think I can bear to read much more of this. I'm about a quarter of the way through and bored to tears. Reading the above it's obvious I'm missing a huge point. Or something. I've always liked his style but I'm disappointed by this one.
 
 
at the scarwash
18:24 / 31.10.03
Well, although I found the first book to be rather interesting, I think that Neal anticipated your reaction and that's why the second book is the swashbuckling adventure story it is. I found it to be payoff myself.
 
 
bjacques
13:06 / 01.11.03
Stay with it if you can, especially if you like history. The action picks up with the Plague and Fire of London. And you'll love Eliza.
 
 
nedrichards is confused
19:41 / 06.11.03
Eliza seems to be the second decent female character Stephenson's ever written which is noteworthy in and of itself. But yes i finally finished the thing and after a bit of a wooly opening it really gets going doesn't it? I'm sure if I go back and read it again that opening will feel a lot more in place but as an introduction to a trilogy it just seems to go nowhere. It's not until about 500 pages later that all the havy lifting starts to make sense.

If I can compare it to anything it's the Bag End chapters of Lord of the Rings where the idyllic scenes of hobbit life are artisicly vital as contrast to the hellish Mordor. But reading it for the first time we don't know that, we haven't even finished the first book let alone the third. But yes, it''s good. Plenty of yumyum ideafood.
 
 
YNH
22:54 / 11.12.03
(bump)

Who was the other worthwhile female character?

I got through the first book before the library wated it back.

Is Stephenson now geek culture's James Michener?
 
 
nedrichards is confused
17:11 / 12.12.03
The other worthwhile female character (in my view) is Nell from 'The Diamond Age'. If you haven't read the Diamond Age do so, there's a great 'Last Episode Of Buffy' style bit near the end.
 
 
YNH
17:51 / 12.12.03
I read it. The ending seemed forced, like Snow Crash and Cryptonomicon. I decided to give this one a chance 'cause 2700 pages might give him the time to construct an ending that didn't simply stop in a wash of surprising glory.

Anyway, care to expand on why Eliza and Nell are the only two worthwhile females in Stephenson and why America and Y.T. are not?
 
 
nedrichards is confused
22:52 / 12.12.03
I suck! America shaftoe certainly is great. Gah, can;t believe I forgot her. Apologies to the shaftoe clan. Will just burrow away and reread Snowcrash to defend my remembered feeling that Y.T. just didn't seem 'right' but I think you can pretty much take it as read that my point has both crashed and burnt.
 
 
A fall of geckos
19:30 / 27.12.03
Spoilers for Cryptonomicon...










Personally I think there is definitely something weird up with Enoch.

For starters, when they are driving through Italy, Root says he knows some Italian, but he would probably sound like a sixteenth century alchemist. I think this is the first major hint that it's the same Root in both books.

Also Enoch Root dies. I've heard it suggested that this was faked, but re-reading the book it seems pretty clear that he kicks it. Stevenson writes something (I don't have the book here) along the lines of:

When one of your buddies dies, you have to go right back into action, and save the waterworks for later.

If they were faking it all, then I doubt that the narrative voice would be this clear about the actual death.

Then he turns up in the 1990's alive and well - we see later that he can apparently heal people (Amy Shaftoe) - which fits into the alchemic theme - the philosophers stone supposedly conveying immortality when dissolved in alcohol.

Later in the novel someone (I think Waterhouse) asks Root Enoch, why are you here? Root replies, Why has my spirit been incarnated into a physical body in this world?

This ties in (to some extent) to the theme of gnosticism and Enoch.

Anyway, I'm still teasing and picking these apart - when I've got the book in front of me I'll have a quick check to make sure I got the quotes reasonably correct, and have a look for any other obvious clues re. Enoch.

So, am I reaching here - any thoughts?
 
 
8===>Q: alyn
10:59 / 12.12.04
L'Emmerdeur means something like bloody nuisance, doesn't it?
 
 
8===>Q: alyn
11:07 / 12.12.04
Can we get a feminist in here to discuss the provenance of "worthwhile" and "worthless" female characters? I think... let me see, Zodiac, the Big U, Cobweb... yep, every single one of Stephenson's novels involves an intelligent woman who, you know, makes decisions, thinks clearly, &c, and is thereby more attractive to men. Can we get a feminist in here to discuss that?

What I find puzzling is Stephenson's fixation on female viriginity, and the way he seems to link mathematical genius to homosexuality. Is there any known evidence that Isaac Newton was a closet case, and that Leibniz was not a closet case? I have no idea. Can we get a homosexual mathematician in here?

Anyway, Quicksilver is jolly good, you should read it if you haven't.
 
 
bjacques
06:15 / 16.12.04
I FINISHED!!!!! It's worth it.

CONTAINS SPOILERS FOR CRYPTONOMICON AND THE BAROQUE CYCLE


























The Baroque Cycle explains almost everything in Cryptonomicon, such as the contents of the NIZ-ARCH (LeibNIZ-ARCHive) crate the Shaftoes fish up from the wreck of the super U-Boat. Also, the ancestors of many supporting characters get their stories told--Gabriel Goto, forebear of Goto Dengo, Moseh de La Cruz-->Avi, The Gold Comstock-->Attorney General Comstock, etc.

Princess Wilhelmina Caroline, before she became George II's Queen Caroline, *did* try to reconcile Leibniz and Newton. I knew Newton hadn't croaked at the Trial of the Pyx because I'd sneaked a look at his bio online.

Jack Shaftoe *does* say "I didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition" when Father de Gex turns up. There are lots of Easter eggs sprinkled in the book.

The state of clockwork c. 1700 was reflected pretty accurately. Half the time bombs go off at the wrong times. They're only useful for setting off explosions when you're far away and have an alibi.

I'm staying with one of my original guesses about Enoch Root--that he stumbled on the Immortality Juice and quickly figured out (as does Leibnitz at the end) that, while it keeps you alive and healthy, it's no smart drug. He also found a purpose, which was helping out in ways that would, he hoped, later form the basis for myths that promote intelligence and some kind of wisdom. Neither is especially prized by the general population or its leaders. If he's really old, he could be Enki or a priest of Athena (judging by his prison lecture in "Cryptonomicon"). He might have picked Enoch as a name because of the Biblical reference, though there were mature civilizations around then capable of alchemy. There's never really a physical description of him, except he's Caucasian and has red hair, which is probably real. Didn't Gilgamesh or Enki have red hair?

He also honed his knack for staying alive. The entertaining bits of history are dangerous, but even non-history can kill you off before your allotted time. Root also knows when to make an exit. Dying on the operating table in WWII was a convenient fiction. There's an Enoch Root-shaped figure ducking out the back immediately after the doctor signs his death certificate.
 
 
The Timaximus, The!
02:00 / 19.12.04
I, too enjoyed all the little things I noticed rereading Cryptonomicon after the Baroque Cycle. Did you notice the samurai swords in Robin and M.A. Shaftoe's trunk? Stephenson must have had the Baroque Cycle pretty thoroughly fleshed-out while he was writing Cryptonomicon.

Why do you think Enoch was around before he was Egon von Hackelheber? I thought that was pretty much explained, unless I missed something...

There's an older interview where Stephenson talks about having had a third thread in Cryptonomicon, set in the future, but cut it out beacause the rest of the book was standing up by itself. I'd like to know if he's going to work that into another novel, though, for some reason, I'm having trouble imagining a return to "proper" SF after all this historical SF he's been doing.
 
 
Baz Auckland
09:53 / 20.12.04
I just finished the Baroque Cycle... and didn't want it to end, really and loved it to no end. I haven't read Cryptonomicon yet, but I'm thrilled that the characters reappear...

I always thought that Enoch the Red was at one point Eric the Red, but that may just be too silly...
 
 
Axolotl
11:06 / 20.12.04
I finished the Baroque cycle about a month ago and then re-read Cryptonomicon, it is interesting just how much the events of the Baroque cycle forshadow those of Cryptonomicon.
I'm interested to see just what Neal Stephenson will do next, though I hope it is a sequel to Cryptonomicon.
 
  

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