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I had a dream that I was a hermaphrodite and had sex with myself. Wanna talk about it?

  
 
EE
19:58 / 23.09.03
Pretty simple dream, really. I reach in my pants to discover I have both male and female genetalia, and quickly commence to fuck myself. Here's the weird thing: I experienced the female orgasm. Which, I don't mind saying, was far better than any orgasm my male organ has ever provided me with. I fully believe that women are getting the bigger end of the stick as far as sex is concerned. But that's niether here nor there as far as this thread is concerned.

As for the analysis, I've already got some of it worked out. A merging of my male and female aspects, yes? And experiencing the female orgasm was a symbol that I've become more in touch with my (for lack of a better term) "feminine side"?

Magick is easier these days. I feel like a more complete person, really.

Damn. I've got to go now, but I'll discuss with you all further.
 
 
Papess
20:12 / 23.09.03
"I fully believe that women are getting the bigger end of the stick as far as sex is concerned"

Yes. Yes we are.

Anyway, is this really magicky?

Maybe this would be better in the Convo? I am not sure what you want to discuss magickally here. Is it that you have become acquainted with a more feminine current of magick, or approach to magick?

I am not sure is all.


Or is this spam and I am not being too aware? This place is confusing me.
 
 
Lionheart
20:25 / 23.09.03
As the moderator of the Magick I think that this thread belongs here because:

a.) It deals with dreams

b.) It deals with the notion of human sexuality

c.) I find it too damn funny...uh...I mean interesting. I find it very interesting.

And to throw in my two cents (my two penies) I once had a dream which involved a weird version of a hermaphrodite. I'm gonna relearn how to draw just to draw that person. In the dream there was some weird social event going on and some people were naked. There was this one chubby girl with a penis. But no penis head. Instead the penis (which was very wide) had a vagina in the end. Like an elephant trunk with a vagina at the end. I found it to be weird. And I'm still thinking about that. Damn my subconcious is creative.
 
 
Papess
21:16 / 23.09.03
Fair enough, Lionheart.

It is a little vague though. Are we just discussing our sexuality in dreams? Because I am often mistaken for a man.
 
 
LVX23
22:32 / 23.09.03
If EE posts in Magick, doesn't that imply the he/she feels it should be addressed in a magickal context?
 
 
Quantum
09:32 / 24.09.03
EE, do you feel closer to Alchemy or Kabalah? The alchemical union of opposites in Alchemy is a part of the Great Work, something to aspire to, in kabalah Adam and Eve came from Adam Kadmon the original hermaphrodite God created, so a state we fell from.
If someone tells you to go fuck yourself, now you can say you have
 
 
EE
17:52 / 24.09.03
If someone tells you to go fuck yourself, now you can say you have

Ha! And I was great, too.

I apologize, May Tricks, for how vague the topic was. I was interupted before I could go into any detail or ask any intelligent questions, and had to jet off to find a new job. Will try harder next time. Really, I'm curious about your (not just you, but anyone who has two cents to throw in) interpretations of the symbolism in the dream, and what you think of my interpretations.

I think I was accessing my female side, in a "break glass in case of emergency" kind of way. Like I was in danger of being way too off balance in a spiritual sense, so I found a way to bring out my more female aspects.

I'm also wondering if this is as big a deal as I originally thought it was. At first, I was like "sweet! This dream is chock full of mystic symbolism!". Now, I realize that at 21, I am just beginning the down slide of my sexual peak. Maybe I was just balancing myself after a few years being primarily male in essence. Not such a big deal, but it's still cool I can monitor that sort of thing.

And I can't lie, I have felt more complete since the dream. More balanced. I feel like I flow better now, that I'm more "in tune" with everything. That's why magic seems easier. Not only am I the Thunderbolt, I am the Dark Void that recieves it. I've got a more complete picture of what's going on inside myself, and therefore I have a more complete picture of what's going on outside.

Am I making sense? Am I full of shit, looking too deep into an average dream? Are all of my post-dream symptoms of a more balanced being merely psychosomatic? Even if they are, does it really matter at all? What do you think?

By the way, Quantum, I know little about alchemy, so an alcemical view of this dream would be appreciated.

Side note: Comparing the male and female orgasm has been a lot of fun. A male orgasm is like being struck in the back of the head by a bolt of lightning and having it shoot out your penis. The female orgasm felt more like the shock wake of a thunderbolt, like you hear the "Crack!" of thunder and then whoa shockwave after shockwave flows through you, like it's echoing of the walls, and you kinda melt or something. Definately felt like waves rather than the super-fast particle nature of a male orgasm. It felt great.

Quick question: I'm sure plenty of us have used the energy of an orgasm in a magicky way. How do the uses of the two orgasms differ? How do you decide when to use a thunderbolt or a dark void? What are the advantages and disadvantages of each?
 
 
LVX23
18:17 / 24.09.03
Now, I realize that at 21, I am just beginning the down slide of my sexual peak.

Dude, don't sell yourself short. I'm 32 and I don't feel any less virile than 10 years ago. In fact, I feel much more confident and able. Granted, the overwhelming desire to fuck fuck fuck has subsided - a little. Now I feel things are a bit more cyclical, like certain times during the month are more hormone-driven than others.

On Alchemy: As Above, So Below. Macrocosm and Microcosm. Male & Female. These are all common archetypal pairs in alchemy and are symbolic of unting opposites. The Hermaphrodite is such a symbol, obviously the unioin of male and female, though since each has retained it's essence this can be regarded as a step along the path, but not the final destination. The coupling and mutual annihilation (orgasm) brings the transcendence of forms merging the two completely into Unity, divorced entirely of their former natures. The symbolism of Alchemy is rich and speaks strongly to the subconscious. The Hermaphrodite is certainly a calling from that realm...

The interpretation of your dream is an important excercise and we can all offer our own angles. But what really matters is the interpretation that resonates best with your current headspace. You seem to be inclined to see this as an emergence of your feminine side, so I would say go with that, look at yourself. Are you tipped towards the masculine? Are you bottling up your emotions, too aggressive, too linear and logical? Draw a bath, light some candles, play some Enya
 
 
Secularius
20:19 / 24.09.03
How can you seriously claim that you actually experienced a female orgasm? After all, you are a man aren't you, and female orgasms occur in women don't they? A man never fully know how it feels to be a woman. On the other hand, women can never know how it really feels to be a man. So May Tricks' answer "that women are getting the bigger end of the stick as far as sex is concerned" is just as rediculous.

Sorry if I sound like a grumpy old man but I always find it irritating when people make ultimate statements about "things in themselves" (in the Kantian sense), things they are in no position to make any statements about. Like for example announcing that you know how it feels to be god (or whether god exists or not for that matter), how it feels to give birth to a child or how it feels to have a female orgasm when you're a man. So you dreamt that you had a female orgasm, and May Tricks decided that women have better orgasms because of the cliché that media saturates us with, because of some intuitional belief, feminist inclinations or whatever her reasons may be but NOT because she knows it (in the 'episteme' kind of sense). You may also have some vague intuition or belief that you experienced a female orgasm, but you cannot expect us to believe that you REALLY experienced a female orgasm.
 
 
Papess
20:36 / 24.09.03
No probs EE. I would like to mention, just as a twist...that in tantra, the woman is the one who does the penetrating. Just an interesting point to ponder.

Son of Zadok: Darling, I was being facetious.
 
 
Shanghai Quasar
21:57 / 24.09.03
You'll forgive me if this is out of line, and feel free to correct me if I am, but given that this is a Magick forum, aren't we routinely expected to believe things have happened that most people REALLY wouldn't?

Furthermore, I would like to know what's wrong with declaring that a person can know whether or not God exists. Is that somehow an attempt to invalidate the beliefs held by others simply because YOU do not agree and cannot validate them in your own way?

But I've gone completely off topic. New thread?
 
 
Saint Keggers
22:16 / 24.09.03
"A man never fully know how it feels to be a woman. On the other hand, women can never know how it really feels to be a man."

How do you know? What about past lives? Or bodyswitching? Pathworking? Polyverses? You can no more say that anyone can't know what it feels like to be anything than I can say they can. Especially when dealing with magick.
 
 
EE
23:18 / 24.09.03
We're treading on iffy epistomological (did I spell that right?) ground here. Before we start asking how anybody knows anything for certain (quick answer: they don't), how about we agree that we all percieve reality through our own logic matrices that are either strengthened or not by other people and personal experience. What I experienced was an orgasm. It felt like the other half of a yin-yang. After talking to women whose opinion I trust in such matters, my own conclusions were strengthened. They believed I had a female orgasm.

But you know what? It doesn't matter. I knew what was happening when it happened. Maybe you had to be there...

How can you seriously claim that you actually experienced a female orgasm? After all, you are a man aren't you, and female orgasms occur in women don't they?

These are all true statements. However, they don't disclude the possibility that for a while I was a woman experiencing a female orgasm. After all, I did have female genetalia (at the time), so I don't see why this is hard to believe.

A man never fully know how it feels to be a woman. On the other hand, women can never know how it really feels to be a man.

Shit, man, I'll be honest with you: I'm sure I fully know what it's like to be a man. I certainly would have a difficult time describing it an impartial audience. I'd make a special point to discuss untimely erections, though. Definately.

You may also have some vague intuition or belief that you experienced a female orgasm, but you cannot expect us to believe that you REALLY experienced a female orgasm.

I've learned not to expect people to REALLY believe anything, whether it sounds credible to them or not.

So May Tricks' answer "that women are getting the bigger end of the stick as far as sex is concerned" is just as rediculous.

Alright, alright, I apologize for allowing fun to interfere with the accuracy of May Tricks' and my little dialouge. What I should've said is "woman have better orgasms and are all smarter than men but tend to be far too emotional than is neccessary. They also love the cock and are all better suited toward housekeeping." No! No! Sorry. That's not what I meant either. I guess what I really meant is this: female orgasms are more fun. You are free to argue, but really, have YOU had both?

Sorry if I sound like a grumpy old man...

Hey, no worries. I do it all the time. Nothing wrong with with a little incredulity mixed with irritation.
 
 
Secularius
00:02 / 25.09.03
I'm sorry about leading this thread astray, and not being in my most humorous mood having cought a nasty flu from hell. I know this is the Magick forum, and I'm all into this whole Reality Tunnel thing, but the sceptic also springs up once in a while. I guess I wouldn't have minded if you told us about a Cthulhu orgasm of yours or something more far-out. It's the apparent realness of your experience that bothered me a bit. No I haven't had both so I can't compare, and it is my honest belief that no one ever has (I have no problem with people believing things, just when they think it's the Ultimate Truth or True Knowledge). But I've had the weirdest wet dreams that sometimes surpass the real thing, of which I'm going to spare you with the details. But may I ask one technical question, did your 'female' orgasm include ejaculation?
 
 
illmatic
08:08 / 25.09.03
A Cthulhu orgasm? Sounds like fun. You have a big one, and civilisation ends. Then again, there’s the idea that all of Lovecraft’s stuff is just about fear of women anyway, all those slimy, slavering, inter-dimensional holes…

Re: Orgasm in dreams. I think there’s quite a lot of leeway and unprobed areas (in that a pun?) in our own (waking) experience of orgasm anyway. Female ejaculation is something that would come as a surprise to most of us, for a start. There’s also thing like depth of release and involvement – I’ve read also about a male full body orgasm but never been lucky enough to experience it. With regards to your dream It might be your psyche’s construction of the female orgasm, or it might be something else, who knows? Just chalk it down a very interesting experience I guess. I had a few orgasm experiences in dream which might be of interest – A lot of times I’ve found myself wanting to ejaculate and not being able to and going through various sexual manoeuvres to try and make it happen. I guess this is because of the connection between your body and your dreaming mind, you’re aroused but can’t get the physical release so this frustration expresses itself in dream, a bit like those dreams when you get cramp in your legs and are rendered lame or limping while dreaming. I also once experienced a dream orgasm (dreamgasm?) that was nothing to do with my body at all, because it when on for ages and ages and ages. But this was when I was younger and more virile

With regard to the content of your dream itself - do you think you can expand at all on the connections between this and your waking life? Any changes going on? I’ve had some comparable dreams. I think sexual roles, images of our sexuality, whatever are certainly going to drift to the surface in dreams but I wonder what relation these have to our waking lives/personalities. With myself, I certainly feel lot less fucked in the head in terms of my relationships with women than I did ( I still have a way to go yet though) but I wonder to what degree this would have happened anyway with general maturity – ie. I wonder if the dreams I had were the result of anything in particular, or just a kind of looser expression of growing up and changing.

Think this could be quite an interesting topic – images of the opposite sex / desired gender expressed through magical work or dreams. Anyone got any further thoughts or comments on this theme?
 
 
Quantum
08:50 / 25.09.03
Well, Psychologically Jung suggested we each contain male and female personas, so as a man you could meet your Anima, the feminine version of yourself (and vice versa). Alchemy is the grandfather of Psychology, and contains many similar themes (see above) of duality and unity, male anf female, light and dark etc. A dream of union seems empowering to me.
On the orgasm, I just have to mention Transexuals. Men who've had the chop experience something very similar to a female orgasm (full body rather than genitally centred, longer & deeper etc.) which they report as being better than the male orgasm. Apparently clitoral orgasms are more like a man's orgasm, not as satisfying.
On the epistemic front, no magician is going to assert an objectively true belief (a la Kant) because it doesn't mesh with a magical world view. I was about to start a thread in the headshop on it in fact, excuse me...
 
 
EE
16:14 / 25.09.03
But may I ask one technical question, did your 'female' orgasm include ejaculation?

Nope. My sheets were as dry as the moon.
 
 
cusm
17:14 / 25.09.03
Note that male bits and female bits are really quite the same bits, only in somewhat different physical configurations and sizes. Nature takes a lot of short cuts, and we are a lot more similar than most folks give credit. Point: about 10% or more of women ejaculate. Some with truely impressive velocity and quantity. Think about that.

I've experimented with my own bits quite a bit as well, and found that prostratal orgasms are closer to how the female orgasm is descibed. It has to do with wiring wise, the penis coresponding to the clitoris and the prostate to the g-spot. There are also tricks you can do with breath control, longer lower levels of stimulation, and internal energy visualizations to heighten sensation to some pretty amazing levels without loosing it to ejaculation. Tantra, baby. (Actually Taoist in my case, but same diff.) I insist that men can damn well experience as good and deep an orgasm as women. We just have to work harder to do it as we're wired against it. And for all my talk I'm not even all that good at it, though I've had enough success to stamp my feet about it and affirm that its possible.

As for dreams, strange things are possible. I have the dimmest recollection of one night where I was having some sort of contact with a goddess, resulting in hours of intense mind blowing full bodied orgasmic bliss. I would occasionally drift to consciousness, come out of it, and wisely slip back down into it again for some more. Its really hard to explain, other than as long as I was there with her, I felt like I should have been constantly soaking the sheets. Which, somehow unsuprisingly, were quite dry. It was all inside. Sensation seperated from physical process, and put on repeat.

So yea, props EE. I think its possible you had close enough to the real thing to count.
 
 
LVX23
21:25 / 25.09.03
Think this could be quite an interesting topic – images of the opposite sex / desired gender expressed through magical work or dreams. Anyone got any further thoughts or comments on this theme?

Well, I once had a dream where I made love to a lioness. But I guess that would be extending cross-gender to cross-species.

I also had what would certainly be classified in some circles as an encounter with a succubus, breath loss and everything until I shook her off and awoke, panting & sweating.

I suspect that the dreamworld is far more real than we generally allow.
 
 
Quantum
07:12 / 26.09.03
I suspect also the real world is far more dreamlike than we allow.
 
  
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