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Thelemic Metaprogramming, or...

  
 
LVX23
19:03 / 23.09.03
The Religios Virus

So, I generally consider myself a Thelemite, in the sense that Crowley's system seems to resonate with my own experiences most completely, especially with its Egyptian and Buddhist/Hindu underpinnings. (Really, I eschew labels, but Chaotic Buddhist Anarchist Psychedelic Thelemite comes as close as any). I've spent about 10 years now delving into Crowleyana by text, tarot, correspondences, ritual, and fraternity. The last year or so has seen the most energy so far that I've put into the actual path of Thelema - Ascending the Tree, attempting to balance the Spheres around Ruach, LBRP, Invocation of the Augoeidies, etc. I've also recently read the latest Crowley bio, Perdurabo (which I mention only as it pertains to my premise, to introduced here). I've been following this path primarily for the sake of discipline, enlightenment, self-realization, etc... but lately I've come to perceive a very curious aspect of Thelema, and religious memes in general.

It seems that those personalities who absolutely give themselves to Thelema invariably become the greatest evangelists of the "Faith". In the path of attaining one's True Will through invocation and identification with the Holy Gaurdian Angel, that Will seems to always center around the propogation of the Thelemic meme. If your True WIll is writing, you'll be writing Thelemic-based books. If it's music, you'll figure out how to convey Thelema through sound.

So, is this just a common response for anyone who gives themselves fully to a given path? Obviously, the comparison can be made to born-again Christians, any religious zealots, dogmatics, and fanatics in general. Is it so that any sufficiently obsessed personality will become a vector for the meme of their obsession? Or is it that certain paths, particularly religious memes, are self-perpetuating by the very fact that they are possessive of their host?

In other words, is possession of the host and their subsequent evangelism something that is coded into the meme itself, as a means of propogation? Or is it that certain personalities become so obsessed with the meme that they are driven to expose it to the world?

Obviously it's likely a combination of both, but these are some good starting points. In a sense one could regard the various world faiths as competing viral strains seeking control of the host population. Do you inoculate or risk infection for the everlasting reward?
 
 
cusm
19:38 / 23.09.03
I tend to see religion as a machine whose purpose is the propigation, continuation, and protection of the information its traditions contain. See, at some point mystics uncovered information, and the importance of this information became such that rituals and traditions were formed to help remember and venerate it. Around this springs the structure of religion. Religion is all about the information it contains, but is not in itself that information. It is the body within which the works can be found.

For Thelema, I find evangelists of Thelema quite amusing. See, to give yourself over to the meme in this way is actually to fail at the intended goal of becomming an enlightened magickian. To succeed at this path is to realize that you no longer need it, to transcend it. Crowley tried to explain this now and then, but few seemed to notice. To serve the organization is no different than serving the church it sought to oppose. For Thelema was a product of the very aeon it sought to do away with, and so works much the same way as religion in this way. The purpose and flavor may be different, but the formula of memetic worship remains the same. Different book, same way to read it.

That's my take on it, at any rate.

I otherwise like a lot of the work. I'm just profoundly disinterested in the religion.
 
 
Papess
20:51 / 23.09.03
"In other words, is possession of the host and their subsequent evangelism something that is coded into the meme itself, as a means of propogation? Or is it that certain personalities become so obsessed with the meme that they are driven to expose it to the world?"



Yeesh, Religious Virus? That is brutal description, although I understand what you mean.

It is really hard to tell the difference sometimes, and as you stated already, LVX23, that it is most likely a combination. I would like to add though, that some religions, that are not proselytizing, still manage to crop up a few people who seem to want to express their love of their choosen faith to everyone because it works for them and they want it to work for you (and possibly become a messiah...who knows). I have found this in the case of Buddhism, which doesn't advocate proselytes, and somewhat in Judaism - which doesn't seek to convert either but many followers certainly have a great pride in it and wish to express this. Isn't that what humans generally want to do? Especially in the case of deep devotion or...err...gnosis(?) that some doctrines and services evoke.

For the (chaos) magician though, certainly undoing doctrines and breaking down religions for the sake of understanding them, assimilating the info and then using it as it fits "your own true will" kinda goes against evangelizing Thelema. Since really, you are imposing what is yours onto someone else - that doesn't seem to be very Thelemic. Maybe they are not getting it.

I hope I am not off topic here. Maybe I am not getting it.
 
 
LVX23
22:18 / 23.09.03
Good responses both. May you're not at all off topic. And by "religious virus" I was merely referring to the memtic propogation aspect, not implying that religion is a devious illness bent on consumption.

Cusm, I like your idea of religion as the vehicle to protect and propogate the teachings. Very astute. To extend the viral metaphor, the teaching would be the DNA and the religion the capsid protein shell.

I find it interesting that some religious memes request that the faithful give themselves fully to some holy agent, to be in service of the Lord, as it were. The vehicle of God. Thus, the faithful offer their services to the meme. However it speaks to them - as Christos, Adonai, Aiwass, etc. - the meme has another potential host and propogator.
 
 
EvskiG
01:01 / 24.09.03
I don't think the dogma is hard-wired into the method.

Much of Thelema simply seems to be Golden Dawn-style work with raja yoga, Buddhism, and Crowley's personal sexual/social quirks mixed in.

It seems to me that Crowley had his earth-shattering religious experience, ran it through his personal filters, and (like far too many other would-be prophets) decided that his path was THE PATH.

Personally, I try to take the wheat of practical work from Crowley's writings and leave the chaff of Thelemic dogma. Crowley did the same with yoga, etc., which makes Thelemic dogma all the more baffling. (I still find it impossible to take the Book of the Law seriously.)

If you want people to consider your theories or work on its merits, don't claim to be the prophet of the age. Or tell them to face your Scottish vacation home while performing the Star Ruby.
 
 
Ria
05:59 / 24.09.03
politico-religious memes have at least a couple of hooks: I feel so great that I understand now and I would love for others to feel great and understand.

also: I may have little significance... my meme has great significance... by spreading the meme I give myself (some small) use.

first hook obvious. the second less obvious.
 
 
C.Elseware
08:03 / 24.09.03
If I had really discovered something that worked for me, I'd want to share it with others, to preserve it for generations. Crowley did quite a good job in making sure his systems wouldn't "mutate" too much, If I recall he required something like getting people to provide the origional text with translations (I have not got the details to hand) this kinda reminds me of the equal opposite of the GNU licence.

I think when such systems mutate they end up as religions with huge inexplicable traditions and rules.

I sometimes suspect that "magick paths" are a lot like diet plans. There are many many available, Some better than others. But ultimately "eat less. eat a balance. exercise more." is still best, but people are still hoping that there's a quick fix.
 
 
Professor Silly
14:26 / 24.09.03
When asked "What (religion) are you?" I usually respond "I am an Agnostic Thelemite."

By that I mean that I agree with the ethics/morality of Thelema (as described in Liber Oz), and I haven't experienced Gnosis--direct experience/knowledge of the divine.

Perhaps I represent the exception rather than the rule, as it seems that Thelema has three distinct branches. The Ordo Templi Orientis seems the biggest and most developed of the three...and as a rule I don't think that the O.T.O. directly encourages religious zeal. The O.T.O. does encourage the sharing of information, the offering of classes (for both members and non-members), and perhaps most importantly it keeps the writings of Crowley in print.

Within the O.T.O. is the second organization, the EGC (Ecclesiæ Gnosticæ Catholicæ). These folk perform the Gnostic Mass, very much a religious activity. In order to belong to the EGC one must belong to the O.T.O., which could make it more of a sub-group than something totally separate. Most folks I know in the O.T.O. do belong to the EGC, and seem very involved mentally, spiritually, and physically in the propagation of the system. I personally have nothing to do with any of this--I don't go to mass, ever. It's just not my cup of tea, you know what I mean?

Then there's the A.'.A.'., the third organization. By it's very nature I don't know very many members--it's not set up as a fraternal society like the O.T.O. If the EGC totally affirms the idea of Thelemites as religious zealots, while the O.T.O. partly fits and partly doesn't...then the A.'.A.'. seems totally removed from this principal. Within this system one approaches The Great Work (transcendental union with the divine) with a scientific methodology, meaning belief is used as a tool at certain grades while totally avoided during the other grades. None of the A.'.A.'. members I've met seem like religious zealots.

So again, I'm probably not the typical Thelemite, as I tend to prefer working in private rather than attending mass and trying to convert others to Thelema. In my view conversion is totally unnecessary at this time--most people I know agree with the principals of Thelema even if they describe themselves as Athiest, Christian, Satanic, or whatever.
 
 
cusm
15:31 / 24.09.03
Second on the A.'.A.'. bunch. Of all the Thelemites I've known who were into the organizations, they're the only ones I didn't feel compelled to kick in the shins for one reason or another.

The main principles in Thelema are quite sound, being largely a rehashing and recompiling of the wisdom of many paths reduced to bite sized axioms. Its delivered with a bit of the "and aren't I just shocking!" style Crowley enjoyed so, but if you get past that there's use there. None of it is new, that's a part of why it seems to make such sense. People have been trying to say this shit for centuries. Crowley's work is much the same as Blavatsky's and Campbell's. It just dresses in black and is more likely to shock its parents.

What I'm not into is all the Horus armegeddon prophesy and religious bits. I find that all to be little more than window dressing, and tedius to sort through when reading him. Crowley added it to turn magick into religion, and frankly I can do the same in my own way if I want that. That part of Thelema I see as a hypersigel sorcery intended to bring about particular sorts of change in the world. I suppose someone had to do it, the world certainly needed it, but I've got better things to do so I'll leave that to those more interested in contributing to that work. I just want to know how it all works

But back to memes, it seems a natural reaction in humans to wish to retransmit that which we find appealing. Its like a reflex. "This is good. Try some." I wonder if this is rooted in primitive scavanger instincts. A monkey eats one plant, and dies painfully. Another monkey eats a different plant, and feels good. It must be food. So, he informs the rest of the troup that this plant is good food, and shares. The troup is stronger as a whole from this new knowledge and food source. I think we continue to do the same today with information. The basic instinct remains, though the original purpose is lost.

Myth also is a means of encoding teachings. By putting them into a story, the ideas are more easily remembered, and can be perpetuated in an oral tradition. The stories can then be enacted to strengthen their importance as rituals, for in ritual not only is the story oral, but physical as well. More of our consciousness is involved in the data, so it is remembered more deeply. Traditions tell us when to enact the rituals, priests keep the knowlege safe and see to passing it onto newer generations. Everyone who participates learns the message, and its encoding. So the next logical step is to preserve the rituals, and enforce their practice. Hence, religion.

But a religion is more yet. It takes this data, and integrates it into every facet of daily life. Reality itself as experienced by the participant is imprinted with it. Through religion we become one with the data to the point where the information may no longer even be understood. For really, it no longer needs to be. It is not known, it is lived. Through examination of how one lives, the data can be decoded again. So religion in this sense is the deepest sort of memetic imprinting. The meme is no longer a part of the person, the person is a part of the meme.
 
 
LVX23
17:35 / 24.09.03
Cheers!

Re: A.A.
I agree that this is really where the meat is among the whole lot. Note that in the A.A. as an aspirant you are only to have contact with one member - your sponsor/guide. I think this really cuts down on the noise as well as the community aspect which can introduce a lot of noise, as well as politics.

cusm wrote:
So religion in this sense is the deepest sort of memetic imprinting. The meme is no longer a part of the person, the person is a part of the meme.

This is kinda what I'm getting at, this possession by the meme. Those who answer the calling will become a vector through which the meme will function and grow. If the meme provides for it's host, then the host will provide help the meme. In the case of spiritual memes, the truly effective ones will offer meaning, transformation, and gnosis, creating a strong positive feedback for the individual further encouraging them to continue their association. As noted, these positive returns are the very things that engeander brand loyalty, if you will, and the desire to turn on others by spreading the meme.

I find this discussion entirely fascinating. Religious/spiritual teachings seem to be some of the most powerful memes on the planet, inspiring devotion, fanaticism, illumination, and reverence. Souls are saved and lives taken in the name of these memes. Through us they wage viral war competing for space in the human experience. Is this rampant self-preservation encoded in the meme, or is this an aspect of human psychology and it's inability to see beyond black & white and accept that other memes are equally valid?

(I feel that it's the latter, but this is a good point of discussion...)
 
 
Chiropteran
18:31 / 24.09.03
(LVX23) "Through us [religious memes] wage viral war competing for space in the human experience. Is this rampant self-preservation encoded in the meme, or is this an aspect of human psychology and it's inability to see beyond black & white and accept that other memes are equally valid?"

Without taking the time to really examine the issue in depth (I'm at work :S), I would say that level (and means) of self-preservation is one of the basic variables of the meme-structure.

I think it's safe to say that any reasonably successful meme will have some degree of self-preservation built into it, or else it would not survive. There are more ways to survive, though, than just by attacking all potential competitors:

Some religious memes incorporate very aggressive, conquest-oriented sub-memes ("And all the nations will bow before Nong the OverWatcher!" - propagation by force of arms), while others will utilize sub-memes of passive martyrdom, which can set off emotional resonance in witnesses, making them perhaps more succeptible to the over-meme (the religion itself). Some religious memes encourage religious isolation - self-preservation through avoidant non-conflict (reproduction is slow but steady - generational, centered on the family unit). Others use the alluring sub-meme of "secret knowledge" to gain converts who fall through the cracks of the Official State Religion, or feed off that religion directly by appropriating or subverting its sub-memes (in the latter case a parasitic religious meme - Traditional Satanism in many ways requires the Catholic Church, and I would expect that the strength of their respective memes are positively correlated). Many religious memes (possibly the majority) cannot tolerate the presence of other religious memes, but there are actually others which can apparently be strengthened by contact with other religious memes (tests of faith forge stronger belief) - as in the Seventh Day Adventist preacher who attended many of my wife's coven meetings (the public ones, of course). He never once actively attempted to make any converts, but he felt that his own faith was strengthened by his communication with the Pagans (who he also said he believed to be good people, though on a different path). This property of the meme didn't necessarily spread it, but it did insulate and protect it (another aspect of self-preservation).

So, what I'm saying is...

Oh, crap, what was I saying? OH! That yeah, I think self-preservation is inherant in the meme itself.

OTOH: I think there is also something inside many human beings (perhaps another meme, a parasite which piggybacks on any available host?) which can cause evangelical behavior -- the type associated with Born Agains, religious fundamentalists of all kinds, but also many "secular" belief systems - political agendas, nationalists, some vegetarians/vegans, activists of many types, followers of pop-gurus and diet-plans and the latest scientific/technological/medical discoveries. I've known dog breeders who waxed positively messianic about what they do, along with many artists and musicians.

So, there are perhaps two factors at play here - one person-based (whether hard-wired or memetic) and one religion-based. The various modes and intensity of evangelical expression will emerge from the interplay of these (and many other) factors.

Or something like that.

~L
 
  
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