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That is sooooo 1930s

22:07 / 18.02.02

Interesting article.
. Nothing more retro than black shirts and jackboots.

I understand Berlusconi attempted to revise history schoolbooks because they didn't give a favorable interpretation of Il Duce. Mussolini if he was Rupert Murdoch. The mind shudders.

odd jest on horn

22:36 / 18.02.02

i know it's not quite fair to call the US a fascist state, yet. but there is much that jells here. <shudders>

08:21 / 19.02.02

I was all ready to be extremely scornful, ojoh, but I do see what you mean about that piece. I agree, however that it is extremely premature to even think of the US in terms of being 'fascist' - that term, however ill-defined it may be (and it is impossible to give a rigid definition which is anything other than hopelessly basic) relates to a point of view which is *far more* right-wing and racist (and fundamentally deluded) than the current stance of the US admin (though perhaps not of some militiamen). Also I think that fascism is fairly place-and-time-specific... so where it might just be appropriate to talk of Italian politicians as fascistic (especially when, as with one of the guys in Dekapot's article, they happen to be ex-fascists) because fascism is a genuine political tradition, it's not really appropriate for the US.

13:58 / 19.02.02

It's also worth noting that Mussolini (and I'm paraphrasing here) said "Facism should more precisely be called 'corporatism', because it involves the synchonicity of state and business interests."

Given that it seems that only the rights of "shareholders" seem to be protected from businesses by the federal government, it may in fact be appropriate to call the U.S. government facist under Mussolini's definition.

14:10 / 19.02.02

I think that that definition of fascism is not very useful in terms of fascism as a historical movement...

Hrm. Have a look at this selectionfrom Mussolini's What is Fascism?:

quote: Fascism, now and always, believes in holiness and in heroism; that is to say, in actions influenced by no economic motive, direct or indirect.
quote: Fascism combats the whole complex system of democratic ideology, and repudiates it, whether in its theoretical premises or in its practical application. Fascism denies that the majority, by the simple fact that it is a majority, can direct human society; it denies that numbers alone can govern by means of a periodical consultation, and it affirms the immutable, beneficial, and fruitful inequality of mankind, which can never be permanently leveled through the mere operation of a mechanical process such as universal suffrage....

quote: Fascism conceives of the State as an absolute, in comparison with which all individuals or groups are relative, only to be conceived of in their relation to the State.

14:24 / 19.02.02

Also - fascism was never global in the way that big corporations are.

I just... want people to try and be clear about this sort of thing. Fascism is/was a pretty horrid doctrine even without the Hitlerian additions, and accusations of being fascist shouldn't be levelled at people or states or governments without very good reason.

Moreover, calling a regime 'fascist' may well serve to disguise some of the things that are really wrong with it.

[ 19-02-2002: Message edited by: Kit-Cat Club ]