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Underground > Policy & Help >

How do you moderate? Or: Ending the gap

  
 
deja_vroom
14:50 / 17.09.03
In the hopes of:

- offering to the users of the board a more palpable sense of what usually goes on moderating processes; making the whole thing more *lively*; and
- making the mods come out and *get in touch* with the other users, letting them (the users) know the particular postures and idiosyncrasies each moderator abides to beyond the ones dictated by the board rules; and
- dispelling the image of moderators as somehow "special" users - when really it's much more a tedious clean-up, fix stuff up job. Mods don't have special rights, sweeties. In fact, mods have *duties*.

... I am asking moderators, if they feel like it, to forget the liturgy of the position and come forth to simply share their thoughts on the tasks they do, why the wanted to be mods, who gave up and why, tell anecdotes etc. Think of this space as an arena where we could try to narrow the gap between moderators and users, to make the whole experience more human.

I'll start.

I volunteered to be a mod out of guilt. When I started in Barbelith there was really something trollish about my approach to the place. I behaved like a twat in the Magick forum (you people prolly don't even remember this); Later on there were some misunderstandings that led to more unnecessary confrontation with some posters. Luckily, I realized quickly how much I would be missing if I kept my unruly ways. And I *got* the hint when my troublesome posts at the Magick forum were beautifully ignored. This is why, by the way, I have always recommended that trolls shouldn't even be spoke of. I think it works wonders; it worked for me, at least. It made me re-evaluate myself - which, fortunately I was never afraid to do. It helped that some posters recognized my will to improve, and behaved accordingly.

It helped that some posters (I included) were able to see the whole matter from a distance, and had drank enough of their grown-up juice to let certain things in the past and make room for future improvements. I have grown quite fond (and yeah, envious, biiiitterly envious) of some posters. And learned to extract fun from my fisticuffs the irredeemable twats.

After I spent one year and a half posting daily on Barbelith, came the call for moderators. I couldn't think of any clearer way I could use to say to the whole community: "I care a lot about this space".

As for what goes on on The Creation, the forum where I am a moderator, well it's quite a quiet place. This fact made me a rather passive moderator, a trait I'm trying to change. Instead of waiting for requests, I'm currently more involved into the thing, thinking about ways to make the place run better, reading through the topics and checking to see if everything is ok. I'm trying to become more pro-active, you know.

If there's a difference between regular posters and moderators beyond what tasks they're required and allowed to perform, it's not even a difference per se, its more a variance in strenght on how much you feel responsible for the place - not only the Forum where you moderate, but the whole board.

This is why I - who have for the most part of my duties as a moderator remained a little bit withdrawn - thought of this thread. And of this one.

So, this is my moderator background. As a regular user (that is, as a spoiled kid who only harvest the goodies and doesn't to do the cleaning - just kidding...), what do you think of this? Tell the board - share your suspicions that us mods are evil clones born from Mark Wahlberg's forehead trying to take over the board. Or, who know, even pat us a bit in the back.

I'm waiting to hear from you guys, mods and users. Barbelith could well enjoy a truce time.
 
 
grant
15:40 / 17.09.03
I just spent way too much time here. Really, that's it. I'm very quiet in person, and very chatty online. It beats working, which is what I'm supposed to be doing right now.

As a result, I have a pretty good idea about what I want out of this place, what makes it work (for me). I enjoy tidying up -- in video stores, I re-alphabetize the out of order tapes; at restaurants, I stack my plates at the end of the meal. It makes my life easier, in the long run. I also tend not to get involved in fights, if I can help it, which I suspect makes me seem trustworthy, if a little less exciting than some.

So I stack plates here.

I also, I have to admit, dislike the idea of separating "mods" from "users" -- as in "mods getting in touch with users." Mods are users. One of the things I like about the distributed moderation system here is that it makes more users mods, too. The part about "mods should be like park rangers" in the FAQ was something I wrote. I like park rangers. I'd like to see more rangers, I suppose. And less cops.
 
 
cusm
16:40 / 17.09.03
Once I started hanging out in the magick forum, it became a regular part of my day. I tend to read almost all of it. I also work a net job, so I've the time to lurk there all day. Like Grant, I like tidying up, and wanted to contribute both to the front line troll defense of something I cared about and to its general smooth functioning. So, I went for the job. It was more for me because I was able to do the job and wanted to help out than anything else. Its not really a Position Of Power by any means, its more about pushing a broom.
 
 
Jack Denfeld
18:16 / 17.09.03
I became a moderator because I wanted to be famous. I wanted my name towards the top of one of the forums and for people to know I had a special title.

My moderating style is very simple. I don't believe anything really needs to be edited, I'd rather not remove any threads or even move threads. I figure if the poster wanted his thread in a certain forum then that's up to him.

Not to say I'm lazy. I check my area, Switchboard everyday, and have called for moderation many times, almost entirely for topic summary. And if someone fails to put a topic summary up, I try to just offer the basic key words needed in case anyone ever needs to search for the thread. I also never try to correct spelling. If someone misspells something, that's them, that's their personality, and if they feel strongly about it they may ask for a change themselves. I've only asked for a spelling change once, and that was only because a country was misspelled in the topic summary and I felt users would have a hard time searching for the subject with the country spelled wrong.

Short of someone posting another user's address and phone number, I would really rather not delete any thread. I'd rather have a 400 page thread debating deleting a thread then to just delete it.
 
 
Mazarine
19:28 / 17.09.03
Ah, moderating FTVT.

I add abstracts where there are none, throw keywords on the ends of abstracts that aren't the most searchable. I make URLs into links. If someone's started a thread that no one's posted to, I try to help out. I slap spoiler warnings on things. I occasionally try to steer people into using pre-existing threads rather than starting new ones, if it's appropriate. Occasionally, I try to prune the ancient threads with no posts. I occasionally correct spelling in thread titles, but I don't edit the spelling in people's posts. If someone asks a question in a thread about a movie or a show, I'll endeavor to go look up the answer.

Other than that, if someone requests their post be adjusted/deleted, I check out the thread to make sure that it's not going to drastically screw up the flow of the conversation, and then I agree.

I think FTVT is a fairly easy forum to moderate because people so frequently start up their own threads, and topics tend not to stray far from the original abstract. Back in the dark ages, I used to moderate the Invisible College forum on the Nexus, and then there was another board incarnation, and I forget the rest. Like Grant, I just spend far too much time here. I'm too nervous a person to go mad with power.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
20:00 / 17.09.03
Plenty of free time, felt I might as well give something back. Initially moderated Music because that was the forum I spent most of my Barbelith time in, and the only one where I made a point of reading all the threads.

Moderating Music now takes up about thirty seconds every fortnight - it's a forum that, by and large, takes care of itself. The only moderation actions I've performed there have been retitling a couple of threads for the sake of clarity, pointing out where a thread's covering the same ground as another (haven't locked anything since that ability's returned) and sticking abstracts in where they're missing. Oh, and confirming the deletion of double posts and fixing of typos, natch.

More moderation actions are perfomed in Policy than Music, but that's because Policy has a much tighter remit, a much more focussed purpose (with good reason - stuff about this in the FAQ).

Actually, as a moderator I feel that there are more restrictions placed on me than there would be if I weren't. For one thing, I'm constantly aware of the fact that people are going to be ready to jump on me if they don't like something I say, figuring that I'm trying to make my word the last word. I also feel that there are things non-moderators can do that moderators probably shouldn't - using the Ignore function being the main one (although I'm painfully aware of the fact that not everyone agrees on that particular point). This is stuff that's only really relevant to this particular forum, though - I can only remember the one time someone picked up on a decision in Music, and that was a simple misunderstanding.

All points that have, since the original Knowledge eruption, caused me to question whether the agro of being a moderator in P&H is really worth it.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
21:10 / 17.09.03
I just figured I get so much out of this place, I owed something back.
Yup, most of it's cleaning duty. Fixing links, adding abstracts, deleting double-posts and what have you.
Sometimes, yes, it gets nastier, but I don't think any of us relish that part (and, in my experience, it's rare). Deletion, as far as I'm concerned, is a last resort. And has to be backed up by others, or it doesn't happen anyway.
Yes, I'm a janitor. But if you shit on the lawn, I'm gonna attempt to clean it up, before any little kids go blind etc...
 
 
sleazenation
22:00 / 17.09.03
I became a mod cos tom asked me, and i'd been posting consistantly for years. Literally.

I delete double posts action most requested edits because people seldon seek to change their arguements retroactively in the comics forum. I also fix html and add abstracts.

One thing i don't agree with is the need to enforce a house style for the forum. Other mods do. I don't feel sufficiently strongly to veto any request to enforce a style and it does at least give the forum the a veneer of standards not found on many other boards.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
22:10 / 17.09.03
Yep. Tom asked me to moderate, so I did. I see my job primarily as correcting HTML, resizing overlarge images, deleting double posts and helping people to correct their own spelling or grammar if they ask.

Otherwise, keeping the Head Shop tidy - since I started out modding the Head Shop I tend to think of myself as primarily concerned with it.

As an administrator, the only additional bit of my duties I saw was as a trollguard. This seems to have worked reasonably well - I appear to have become something of a lightning rod for our trolls, which hopefully takes the pressure slightly off Tom. Perhaps that will calm down now that administration has been largely phased out as a concept.
 
 
sleazenation
22:15 / 17.09.03
i've only resized an image once - cos someone told me how to do it - but i've forgotten again now.
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
11:22 / 18.09.03
Moderating the conversation is fairly easy as it is a fluff forum anyway, so it's little more than fixing HTML or occasionally deleting double-posts and OKaying people altering what they've written. There was that time that Knodge sent 12 versions of the same threads and Chol and I had fun deleting them all, but it's neither rocket surgery nor brain science.

I tried to introduce the (PICS) in thread title concept as there were some people that were saying they found picture heavy threads a pain.

And I helped the ultra-secret moderator who's even more senior than Tom in his plan to selectively breed fiction-suits together until they form the next race of super-duper-Sentinals that seek out and terminate people who ask 'Is Barbelith dying?'
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
11:40 / 18.09.03
I moderate in the music and comics forums. My main concern is to keep these forums neat and tidy. I fix thread titles/abstracts, write abstracts when none exist, fix broken html link and create links when the URL is just written out. I delete duplicate/triplicate posts. If someone wants to fix one of their own posts for grammar/spelling reasons, I'll allow it so long as I don't detect any kind of ethical problem. I try to discourage/eliminate spam, which is a problem in both forums from time to time.

I'm a big fan of keeping a uniform set of standards for posting in these forums - I want threads to labelled clearly and consistently, I want to discourage non-informative topic abstracts. I think that the thread titles/abstracts should be utilitarian and helpful, and the creative stuff is best kept to the actual posts.

Basically, I'm a janitor for these forums because a) I care and b) I'm a bit anal-retentive about it.
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
12:17 / 18.09.03
I did it out of companionship, really. Tom's a friend, and running the board is a lot of work. I think I was probably over-sensitive in the Creation occasionally, because I think it's definitely a vulnerable place. (Come down the next time there's a creative writing thread, or an exercise down there. The whole place is damp with nerves.) I know I stamped on Knowledge hard when he became offensive - back in the halcyon days when we had only a vague idea what a pain in the ass he was going to be - and perhaps that was a mistake. It's possible it raised his internal troll temperature.

The difficulty is that when you wear the moderator hat, it feels as if there's an element of implicit duty to preserve the 'safe space' aspect of Barbelith, as well as push the broom. You don't feel able to ignore it if someone's howling 'nigger' at the top of his online voice (did you feel the moderators twitch? For a heartbeat, they wondered whether they ought to ask me to replace that word with one of the accepted slur-avoidance strategies like asterisks or talk-arounds.) If you weren't wearing the moderator hat, you could just walk on by. Inevitably, however, you will be dealing with this situation. You will at the least be seeing requests from other users to warn the poster in question that they're walking - or crossing - the line. The question then is whether you ought to begin that discussion in advance of the first objection, or wait for the rest of the board. There are advantages and disadvantages to either choice - but whatever you do, at some point, it's likely your Park Ranger uniform will look more like a policeman's than usual.

In the moderation debate, Barbelith finds itself engaging in the same discussion which takes place in political spaces all over the world: freedom vs. security, liberty and the nanny state, right vs. responsibility.
 
 
deja_vroom
13:35 / 18.09.03
It's being very nice to get all this information. I think the regular users will feel much more comfortable with the whole moderating process to hopefully diminish the occurences of future surges of disinformed malcontent.

Just a quick note: This thread is for regular users, too. So don't be shy, guys, come in and talk!
 
 
grant
15:26 / 18.09.03
Just to be more useful (clear about what I do), I typically only hit the "moderate post" or "moderate topic" buttons to (in order of frequency):
fix links
fix image widths
delete duplicate posts
add search terms to an abstract.

I don't *think* I've ever originated a moderation action that was anything other than those.

Well, except once -- the day when I decided to start killing old Conversation threads, because they're theoretically supposed to be eliminated after 30 days of inaction. Some of them were over two years old. Anyway, that lasted not very long as far as these projects go. Too much work.

I may have deleted a couple people's posts when the post itself says "If x happens, you can probably just delete this."

Oh, and the above is only just for other people's posts. I'm always adding stuff to my own posts, correcting myself and trying to seem at least marginally coherent.
 
 
Ganesh
21:09 / 18.09.03
Tom pushed me into moderating. Way back, when the call first went up for individuals to take on duties in specific parts of the board, I kept my head down and specifically didn't volunteer (not sure if it's tied in with my job, but I tend to avoid assuming responsibility where at all possible). If I recall rightly, the sneaky so-and-so just went ahead and made me a moderator in the Policy equivalent and I thought 'mmm, better give it a go'.

The original point of moderators was, I think, to tend individual threads, steering them gently back on topic and hiving off promising side-discussions into threads of their own. More 'gardener' than 'park ranger', really. I was (and suspect I continue to be) something of an uphill gardener, dignifying my general laziness with a hands-off 'less is more' philosophy. Other than occasionally starting new topics, I tended very much toward reactive rather than proactive. Actually, having subsequently experienced a variety of alternative moderation styles, I do now think 'faintly negligent' is, on balance, the way to go.

Andrew's persistent abuse of the board led, inevitably, to changes in the entire moderating system - as is well documented elsewhere. Rather than merely approving the typo-corrections of others (I've fixed the odd html link, but I've never learned resizing), I became embroiled in what seemed like neverending, deadeningly circular discussions of how best to contain the problem. Tom 'promoted' Grant and myself to the role of Admin (I think my overall lack of moderation was misperceived as fair and judicious moderation), and a new era of post/thread deletion began...

We have an established policy of deleting all posts by Andrew and his fictionsuits; in practice, it's very much a case of deleting those we can be bothered rooting out (usually the especially obviously trollsome stuff - the 'niggers/bitches - haha, I'm joking' threads), and my energy and enthusiasm for this tend to fluctuate. Andrew aside, I suppose the bulk of what I do is agreeing to the self-editing of others. I've added abstracts here and there, but I don't attempt to correct spelling/punctuation. There've been other trolls, of course, and we've found other ways of dealing with them; some of these have been quite inventive, and I've enjoyed contributing to this.

Periodically, as I get fed up and bored with Barbelith as a whole, I get fed up and bored with moderating. I fear I'm an inconsistent moderator, going through spells of logging in daily or staying away for weeks on end. Unfortunately, the most recent bouts of reengagement have been when I've been dragged back by some moderation crisis or other - or, more personally, when Andrew decided to make me the target of legal (and other) threats. This - combined with the sporadic PM flurries accusing me of either being Haus or being his hopelessly-compromised "buddy" - gives a rather jaundiced view of Barbelith, and I must admit I've been thinking more and more of late of asking Tom for 'demotion', of some time away from being a moderator.

Being a moderator definitely alters the way one posts. There's a pressure to at least attempt to be 'Statesmanlike' (yeah, I know; wanky) and even-handed - and I've found that a certain fun element of irresponsibility has been lost along the way.

Those who think it's all secret handshakes, Ming the Merciless moustaches and sangria in the park are welcome to give it a go...
 
 
Kit-Cat Club
09:58 / 19.09.03
I asked to moderate the Books forum during a call for volunteers yonks ago (2001?) because I wanted to help out, and I think that Tom was happy to let me do it because he was already acquainted with me... Books seemed like the most appropriate forum for me as I read all the blooming time. I was the sole moderator for a while - I think almost a year... and then we got new people in... goodness, it all blurs, doesn't it?

I used to be a lot more active in terms of starting new threads etc. when the forum was in the doldrums - these days I find it much harder to think of topics that might be interesting, and no one else seems greatly bothered. I do occasionally have an idea, though, and I feel as if I ought to have a lot more.

Moderation duties: very, very light. I have about one action to consider every fortnight. I never alter spellings or grammar, unless the error's in the thread title. I recently switched an abstract and opening post round, because it seemed to me that they had been entered in the wrong order. I once deleted a post which consisted of the words 'you poof' because I didn't think it was relevant to the topic at hand (Iain Sinclair, IIRC). I sometimes prune the forum of old topics with no responses when I'm really bored.

I think it's a responsibility, but it doesn't really affect the way I post as I (like to think I) am always fairly even in terms of tone etc and since I only moderate one forum it doesn't affect me in the Conversation etc.

I do think of Books as 'my' forum though, and get peeved if people post rubbish in it...
 
 
Sax
10:27 / 19.09.03
Moderating the Conversation is like herding cats, but it's fun. I tend to do technical stuff like fixing links, pix, adding abstracts and stuff. If something looks like it needs deletion or a stern smack across the bottom, I tend to PM another moderator to gauge reaction before putting in an action.

I once made a vague suggestion that I would be happy to moderate something if the need arose, and my name appeared at the top of the Convo a couple of days later.
 
 
Jub
11:12 / 19.09.03
Moderating The Gathering is quite a quiet affair. I offered to moderate when the call came for new mods in the most recent changes.

I thought I might be of use, because I have Barbelith open all day at work, and sometimes at home and so I'd be able to modify requested actions quite quickly.

I haven't (and probably won't) ever edit someone's post without their permission.
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
15:34 / 06.10.03
good thread.

I volunteered to be a moderator out of vague sense of wanting to contribute/give something back, and because i had plenty of time and was online alot.

and lo and behold I found myself added to Policy/conversation.

Policy was/is uneven. It's almost dead for ages, moderating involves the odd topic abstract and deleting duplicate threads. Periodically a shitstorm/need for examination of this space happens. At which point there's masses to do, and it becomes a very important space.

Most conversation mod is relatively simple, tho' there phases of requests being high traffic. Except when trollwatching, at which point it becomes massively time-consuming/complex, involves alot of discussion before moderation over the issues which are gripping this place atm.

Took/take the commitment of being a moderator seriously, and having a more reactive style doesn't contradict this. And also feel it implies some commitment to a whatever overall barbelith project might be.

Which is part of why i asked to be demodded. I have alot less time and inclination to engage at the level I felt was neccessary to be a good moderator. I decided that I didn't care enough, and didn't want to be a shoddy moderator.

Also, I think I agree with 'nesh that I felt a greater need to be ultra-balanced/reasonable than I do now. It's not that i've started trolling, more that I don't feel I'm representing/embodying anything but myself now.
 
 
Char Aina
16:26 / 06.10.03
i offered my services for almost all the resasons already put forward, but mostly because i had no answer to the question "why not?".

its a job that needs to be done, and i suppose the more the merrier.


tom, if you are looking, i am still willing to be used for whatever menial tasks i can usefully be engaged in. whenever, wherever.
 
 
The Falcon
00:41 / 07.10.03
I'm not doing anything very difficult since I started modding Convo, which should be one of the easier things to do, I suppose.

The only problem is I've buggered my browser somehow, so I have to keep refreshing to get the latest version of a page. Anybody know how I can fix this?

I am a spazz, I know.

Gie toksik a job, if necessary, definitely.
 
  
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