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Help me write my novel

 
 
01
18:46 / 04.09.03
I'm trying to write a novel based on persoanl experiences. it'll be written in the first person. Since I have never really written anything substantial before, can anyone out there give me any pointers or tips. ie. structure. should I just sit and hammer it out as it comes or should i plot out the story from beginning to end? The story is a very personal, emotional tale so I don't know if that affects anything.
 
 
Jack Fear
22:33 / 04.09.03
Depends: do you have a clear ending in mind? Do you know where you're going before you start?

My instinct would be to just get it out, to start with: get it all onto paper or into a word-processing file--then worry about organization.

After you cut and paste it into some semblance of order, the real work begins. Because what we call "writing" is really about 10% writing and 90% re-writing. It's in the rewrites that the whole thing will come together.

Or not. There are no guarantees.

That said: if you do have an ending in mind, you might want to write that scene first. That way, if you ever feel lost or off-course as you write, you can refer back to that, to remind you what you're working towards.

As noted above, these are my instincts. This is your story: do it as your gut tells you. I think you already know what you want to do, and you're just looking for somebody else's blessing to do it. Whatever it is, go for it: there are no rules beyond the ones set.
 
 
Whisky Priestess
12:46 / 05.09.03
What he said - if it's based on reality you will know exactly what happened when and to whom, and half the work of fiction is deciding just that, so there's no need for elaborate flowcharts - I'd just sit down and begin at the beginning, if I were you. If you get stuck skip forward and write a bit at the middle or end: remember, there's no such thing as writer's block.
 
 
01
15:14 / 07.09.03
Ok, cool, I dig the advice so far... very helpful. I keep hearing the word "rewrites". Groovy. That's something I didn't know before, as a buddy of mine told me told me the same thing. I started writing the first couple pages and everything was coming out flat and boring, and I thought how the fuck do these people come up with these brilliantly hillarious or utterly profound works? Jack says 90 percent rewrites hey? wow.

The story is pretty set. It's pretty much a re-telling of a bizarre chain of events that I experienced. I want to keep it as true as possible to what actually happened so the only thing I'll probably change is the names of the characters. Which leads me to ask if there are any good tricks for coming up with said names. I want the names to be as true to their respective characters as they are in real life. ie no "John Smith", "Jane Doe", "Stuart Little" that kind of thing.

Also how long does writing a novel usually take? I realize this question is pretty vague but on average how long would say a 200 page work take and how long does someone usually write per day? Maybe this is a stupid question, I don't know.

I've read that journal writing is quite different from novel writing in the fact that journal writing is easier to put down. This I'm beginning to see. I've got pages and pages of journal entries, and am able to go off on almost any subject no problem. Shit just flows. Trying to write an actual story seems like trying to appease some really slow moving beast trying to coax it down the fork in the road I want it to go. Right now all I'm doing is putting down alot of mental snippets of what went down, alot of random thoughts. That's pretty much how the story exsists in my head right now. A specific chain of events with heavy emotional connection to said chain of events as the story progresses. There is a climax and its
pretty insane and ultimately tragic. The whole story is encapsulated in the fact it has a beginning, a middle and an end. It was weird because in the moment when I was living through it all, as things became more surreal it actually felt like I was in a character in a movie playing a part. Looking back as well it seems the same as well.
 
 
Jack Fear
19:36 / 07.09.03
Also how long does writing a novel usually take?

As long as it takes.

(The question reminds me of Abe Lincoln's little brain-teaser: "How long should a man's legs be?" Answer: Long enough to reach the ground.)

Seriously, though, there's no one answer. It depends on the writer and the subject matter and oh god all sorts of things. Michael Moorcock could slam out one of his acid-damaged fantasy freakouts in a single sleepless weekend (so the story goes): Kerouac wired himself up on espresso and amphetamines to touch-type The Subterraneans in a couple of weeks, threading a 5,000 foot roll of telegraph paper through his Underwood so he wouldn't have to slow down to put in fresh pages: Stephen King, by his own admission, likes to start a new book about every three months: Chuck Palahniuk bangs out about one a year: JK Rowling took about two years for Order of the Phoenix: Scott Spencer has a new book about every four: Thomas Harris took eight between Silence of the Lambs and Hannibal: James Joyce took sixteen years to write Ulysses, and longer still for Finnegans Wake.

Different ends, different means.

A novel is not a journal, and vice versa. But journals can be springboards for novels, and all that "random shit" is not random at all—it's notes, it's material, it's there to be cut and pasted and chopped and shaped and molded.

And you should never feel bad about writing lots in your journal when you "should" be working on your novel: because, in a way, you are working on our novel. When you're working on a big project, anywriting is useful writing, even letters to friends—because it can get you thinking about the problems of the bigger work from different angles and perspectives, and point you towards solutions to those problems.

So don't sweat it. Just do it, and don't worry about whether you're "on schedule" or not: you are setting the schedule, you are determining the word count. Your only concern should be tlling the story in the way it's asking to be told. If it takes seven years and ends up only 30,000 words long, then so be it.
 
 
Tamayyurt
19:58 / 13.07.04
I've been inspired by this comment,'Harry Potter' meets 'A Clockwork Orange!'and since I'm tired of waiting for IF I've decided to write MY OWN novel.

Just wanted to bump this thread incase I need help.
 
 
TeN
20:33 / 13.07.04
"Which leads me to ask if there are any good tricks for coming up with said names."
I'd try flipping through a phone book (one from a distant city is probably better, as the person won't turn out to be a friend of a friend's neighbor) and picking a random name. If you want, you can mix and match... as in pick a good last name, and then look for a good first name to go along with it.

"I've got pages and pages of journal entries, and am able to go off on almost any subject no problem. Shit just flows. Trying to write an actual story seems like trying to appease some really slow moving beast trying to coax it down the fork in the road I want it to go. Right now all I'm doing is putting down alot of mental snippets of what went down, alot of random thoughts. That's pretty much how the story exsists in my head right now."
If you have alot of material, you may already have half of the process done and not even know it. All that's needed is for those thoughts and ideas to be shaped and molded into something coherent and readable. And don't try to cut out any "randomness" just because you think a story has to be clear cut and linear... I happen to prefer an author who goes off on tangents and breaks from the story to tell thoughts, opinions, annecdotes, long complex metaphors, flashbacks, predictons, random useless thoughts... so long as the material is interesting, the chaos itself will keep the reader glued to the page.

"Also how long does writing a novel usually take... on average how long would say a 200 page work take...?"
It really all depends. Some people write very slowly, others crank out tens of pages a day. Some revise for months, others revise very little. You shouldn't worry about that sort of thing. You'll know when it's finished.

"...how long does someone usually write per day?"
I'd recomend just writing as much as possible. Until your fingers bleed, if that's what it takes. Don't worry about the finished product... just pour your guts out onto the page... when you have hundreds of pages of scribbled notes and drawings and doodles and transcribed conversations and bits and peices of narrative, then you can begin editing that into something that makes sense. If you concentrate on what it's going to look like when it's finished, you'll censor yourself, which is very bad.

Just some more tips:
- show don't tell... it's the only way to keep the reader from falling asleep on you
- avoid cliches as if they meant certain death... if it reminds you of some other work, scrap it
- start with a great opening, so the reader will want to keep reading, and end with a great conclusion, so that they won't hate you and instead recomend it to their friends
- be inspired by everything, be open to everything around you and realize that your ideas will come from your surroundings... everything you hear and see
- buy the book "Writer's Idea Book" I don't usually make product plugs, but honestly, this is one of the best purchases I've ever made... it has incalculable value to any writer of any medium
- if you find yourself short of material for a full length novel... consider making it a novella, 50-100 pages.
- don't overplan... you will lose the sponteneity and make your writing as dry as a news reel
- don't force yourself to stick to the exact truth... no one cares whether your story happened exactly as you're telling it, so don't be afraid to take creative liberties
- if you're having trouble deciding which style/with which character/in which setting/with which theme in which to write a certain part, try writing it several times with many different styles/characters/settings/themes and see which one you like the best

I'll probably think of some more later, but that should do for now.

Also for some other good books, check out "Crafting Scenes" which gives some really good ideas. "Fiction First Aid" is written by the same guy and is supposed to be great although I've never read it. as an unexperienced writer, you'd be wise to check it out to see what common mistakes to avoid.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
14:45 / 14.07.04
Also how long does writing a novel usually take?

I wrote the first draft of what is becoming my novel six years ago. I'm not joking. I started out with two characters- it didn't work. I added in another- time line didn't work. I swapped my two female characters around- I'm getting there. So far I have one chapter that is at all good in any way and I'm crap at the moment so it's not progressing. My advice: don't do it like me.
 
 
Sax
17:17 / 14.07.04
And sometimes (unless you're very lucky) it's not the writing that takes time, it's the getting published.

Like Anna, I completed the first draft of the novel a while ago... mid-1999, I think. It's undergone substantial rewrites and revisions since, and is only now (hopefully) getting published. It would have been easy to give up after the first 20 or so rejections.
 
 
Tamayyurt
11:58 / 16.07.04
Don't forget to spam it here when it comes out cause I'd love to read it.
 
 
Sax
12:07 / 16.07.04
Well, I've just had an e-mail from Storm Constantine saying the contracts are in the post (yay!)

But the busy schedule of Immanion Press means it might not be out until next year (boo!)

So fear not, I'll be plugging myself to death when I know something.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
12:13 / 16.07.04
Yeah, congratulations Sax. And especially for persisting - Oh sweet, sweet revenge.

So are you going to re-think your policy on hair colour now, with the press shots in mind ?
 
 
Tamayyurt
12:22 / 16.07.04
That's awesome, congrats! And coming out next year is a lot better than not at all so chin up!
 
 
Topper
14:17 / 19.07.04
Yes, congratulations!

.
 
 
Tamayyurt
14:54 / 19.07.04
I'm already on my 3rd chapter... I'm going about this in a very NaNoWriMo way. Only instead of attacking it in a month I'm expecting to finish the first draft (of probably many) in about 6 or 7 months.
 
 
Tamayyurt
14:55 / 19.07.04
I'm also interested to hear how 01 is doing with his novel.
 
 
The Prince of All Lies
23:47 / 27.07.04
I started writing a new novel a couple of months ago.. It's gonna be a meta-novel, if you want to call it that...a novel within a novel, similar to Paul Auster's Leviathan or Eco's Foucault's Pendulum...
The story would be something like this.. there's a writer (my fictionsuit, for all means) that disappears, leaving behind an unfinished novel. His editor (a woman) goes to his apartment and tries to reconstruct the novel, while trying to make sense of his disappearance.
Tthe difficult thing for me will be writing from a woman's point of view (first person)...I haven't read any books by male authors "crossdressing" as women, so it could be interestingm or turn out to be shit...any ideas??
 
 
TeN
02:11 / 28.07.04
sounds very interesting.

I have some ideas, but I'll tell them later... it's late and i just got a cast on cause of a fracture, so i'm typing with only one hand.
 
 
---
06:01 / 28.07.04
Jack Fear and Whisky Priestess :

You are a pair of saviours. I've been toying with the idea of putting bits of the story that are further on, like a middle part or something near the end, when i get stuck but haven't, i've just been leaving it thinking that it was too wierd.

It's great to read you two suggesting it as a possibility because i'm still pretty new to this. At one point i was almost ready to go total jigsaw fashion, and i still might do that if i get stuck for much longer. I'd love to know how many pros do this.

Thankyou both.
 
 
Tamayyurt
12:06 / 28.07.04
Prince, that idea sounds great. And don't worry about writing in a female voice. Just write. If anything sounds less than authentic a female reader will quickly correct you and you'll fix it.
 
 
The Prince of All Lies
15:04 / 28.07.04
thanks, that's pretty much what I thought..plus, between my mom and my two sisters, they can help me if I get stuck..
 
 
Tamayyurt
03:37 / 30.07.04
Is there any place I can submit my novel when it's done where they can edit it (not so much the creative side of things but the technical stuff)? If there is, how much would something like that cost? Anybody use a service like that? Anybody want to volunteer to do it for free?

I'm still a not near finishing though... only on chapter 6.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
14:54 / 03.08.04
This is probably a stupid question, but what about this novel-writing software I keep reading about? Great big 50ft joke or worth looking into?
 
 
Tamayyurt
19:41 / 03.08.04
I haven't heard of any software, which is a good thing cause I'd probably buy into it.
 
 
TeN
19:42 / 03.08.04
Anything that promises to do your work for is worth nothng more than a good laugh.

I mean come on, pully systems?! Whoever heard of such a thing?!

Seriously though, I wouldn't buy into any of that stuff. Just imagine being interviewed by the NY Times about your new hit novel and you let it slip that you used "novel writing software"... God, let the nation-wide ridicule begin... I hope you have lots of really good disguises.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
07:56 / 04.08.04
About as ridiculous, I imagine, as the thought of writing a novel using a word processor rather than a typewriter. Your word processing programme is "novel-writing software" - it allows you to save and amend drafts far more easily, cut and paste passages... Douglas Adams, I believe, said that having a word processor rather than a typewriter fundamentally altered the way he wrote novels. Final Cut software, on a related note, is becoming an increasingly important possession of screenwriters. It's just a tool.

Beyond that, there are programmes that are designed to provide a handy file-card system for chapter events, character descriptions, histories, that sort of thing... I can think offhand of NewNovelist and NovelPro. They are databases, essentially, customised for a particular use. I haven't much experience of either of them, but I certainly wouldn't advise using a computer programme's advice on what your protagonist should do next. I suspect that using them might close down your options, however - they may help you to write a book, but not necessarily a good book. There's a database programme writers often recommend, but I can't remember the name offhand...
 
 
Tamayyurt
11:43 / 04.08.04
Jack and Haus, you guys are the scariest mutherfuckers on this board, and I dread your feedback when it comes to any of my shitty comics. But you guys have forced me to get my shit together (even though I'm sure you'd think not enough) so I'm extending an invitation to go over the first draft when it's done and give me feedback.

I'm still afriad, but I know your advise will be on the money and my novel will be better for it.

What do you think? gulp.
 
 
Tamayyurt
15:24 / 11.08.04
AAAAAHHHHHH! NOOOOOOOOOO!

After waking up early and fighting with a chapter I was having difficulty for hours! I get up to go to lunch, close the window with saving it and lose all me hard work! I want to fucking cry!!!!! Fuuuuuck!

Sigh, just need to get that out.

Man, this sucks….
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
13:10 / 15.08.04
there are programmes that are designed to provide a handy file-card system for chapter events, character descriptions, histories, that sort of thing --Haus

Oh, I sort of already have one of those. It's called "A cardboard folder with all my notebooks and sticklyman story-boards and maps and backup discs and stuff like that." It's getting a bit small for all the crap I keep shoving in it though. Maybe one of these newfangled software doobries would be a good move...
 
 
w1rebaby
02:14 / 16.08.04
I've been using a program called Ulysses recently which, despite not apparently providing any features at all, seems to really work. I write far more when I'm using it that when I'm using anything else, and, infuriatingly, I don't know why. I'm used to being able to at least make theories about these things, it's sort of my job or at least what I've been trained to do, but this is puzzling me. Maybe it's magic.

They do charge a ridiculous amount for it though. Mac only, too.
 
  
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