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What is Lex Luthor's motivation?

 
 
Jack Denfeld
22:00 / 02.09.03
He doesn't have any friends, does he? Not even a kind-of-friend that he'll shoot the gossip with once in a while.
 
 
weepy_minotaur
07:13 / 03.09.03
the closest thing Lex has to a "friend" is his bodygaurd, Mercy Graves. Mercy is incredibly beautiful, highly trained, extremely well-educated, and very, very deadly. she's the Robin to Lex's Batman, for all intents and purposes.
now as for Lex's motivation, it's probably his childhood. apparently it sucked. like hardcore. also he enjoys what he does immensely. let's say you were Lex for a second. you wake up, and your entire day is proving that your'e smarter than the most powerful people in the world. ego trip like a motherfucker.
that's why he does it. he gets off on the power.
 
 
Dan Fish - @Fish1k
07:30 / 03.09.03
He boasts about his exploits on the super-villain message boards. Since Brainiac redesgned the city, he can log onto internet from infinite worlds, and chat with alternate Luthors.
 
 
I'm Rick Jones, bitch
07:47 / 03.09.03
Superboy put the chem lab fire out with his super-breath and as a result of chemicals being blow across his barnet, all of luthor's hair fell out, so he turned to evil. I'm not making any of this up, I'm afraid.
 
 
invisible_al
11:53 / 03.09.03
Hmmm does anyone read Human Defence Corp's at all, actually has some nice additions to what Luthor is up to now that he's Pres. Set up an army specifically to deal with aliens/demons/etc etc so that the world doesn't have to rely on the Superhumans for defence any more. (In the last issue they invaded Hell on a POW recovery mission, it's a lot better than it sounds honestly )

But mixed into the whole getting off on Power could be that he just really doesn't like Superhumans, specifically when he isn't one himself. Is it all jelousy, or resentment that humans can't defend themselves?
 
 
A
11:56 / 03.09.03
THe Superboy blowing his hair out thing is what we nerds refer to as "Pre-Crisis". It doesn't apply anymore, unfortunately, because it's about the coolest start to a life of crime and infamy that i can think of.
 
 
I'm Rick Jones, bitch
12:42 / 03.09.03
Adam dude, all the cool kids use the Superfriends chronology these days.
 
 
The Falcon
13:55 / 03.09.03
Azzarello's new Lex mini supposedly explores this.
 
 
A
14:08 / 03.09.03
But, in the Super Friends chronology, Lex had heaps of pals. Brainiac, Solomon Grundy, Giganta, Sinestro, Captain Cold, etc. They sure know how to make a guy feel loved.
 
 
Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo
14:59 / 03.09.03
Current motivation?

He was the most known person in Matropolis before Superman showed up. A billionaire who was the most politically powerful person around with his hand in everything, including the underworld. Then some freak shows up, gets all of his press and is making headroads into shutting down his illegal operations.

And why do I keep thinking that DC has wasted a GREAT opportunity with a bunch of stories around him being President?
 
 
FinderWolf
15:18 / 03.09.03
I read this topic thread and thought "Hmm, I won't have to answer it cause someone will write the three+ paragraphs I'm thinking of right now", but I guess not so far, so here goes:

I'll talk post-Crisis since that's the one that matters. John Byrne and Marv Wolfman came up with a Luthor who was like the evil Donald Trump - a billionaire with a huge business empire but who was corrupt and evil, but he had so much money and so many lawyers that no one could ever quite trace anything illegal back to him. He's also a genius, of course, in both pre- and post-Crisis.

Anyway, he's arrogant and fuck and a total egomaniac. In post-Crisis version he grew up a poor abused kid (there was one issue of SUPERMAN that told his life story, one of the last good issues Dan Jurgens wrote) in the ghettos, I think he even had foster parents. Slowly he learned how to maniuplate people and learned how great it is to have power.

When he became the most famous, most wealthy, most powerful man in Metropolis, he loved it. He was unrivaled and had total control over practically everything in the city, and people had no idea how corrupt his business and personal dealings were. In fact, he had cultivated an image of himself as a wonderful, kind philanthropist who'd been so kind as to share all his great ideas and technology with humanity.

Superman shows up on the scene. Luthor can't stand the notion of 1) someone more powerful than him and getting more adulation and attention from the people than him, and 2) a non-human, disgusting alien (once Lois gives her big interview and everyone finds out he's from Krypton) having so much power over human destiny - how can we trust him?? See Byrne's quality, about to be reprinted in trade paperback redefining Superman revamp miniseries MAN OF STEEL for more on this. Supes finds out Luthor is connected to a horrible kidnapping/criminal scheme and basically insults Lex by accusing him in public. Lex is aghast. Someone who a) finds out Lex's criminal dealings, which he's managed to hide from the public for so long, much like Dick Cheney? and b) someone with the balls to accuse him in public? This new threat has gotta go. Plus, how can we trust this alien super-powered dude, as well as these other costumed powered heroes, when they're accountable to no one and we don't even know who they are?!?!?

In the started-out-great-but-soon-got-shitty TV show LOIS & CLARK, the pilot had a great scene about this Supes threaten's Lex's superiority in Metropolis bit. In both this show and Byrne's revamp, Lex's building (which is a stylized L modeled after the NYC Citicorp buildling with the slanted top) is the tallest building in the city, symbolizing his dominion. In the TV show, Supes shows up at Lex's penthouse in the bldg. and says "I know you're crooked, someday I'll find a way to prove it" and Lex says "Yeah, whatever, I rule this city, I look down on everyone from here in my citadel, the people love me, you're a scummy alien anyway, who'll believe you?"

And Clark/Supes says something devastating and finishes his "I'm a hero, I'll kick your ass" monologue with "Oh, and anytime you want to talk to me...just look up." Like Supes is the one person who Lex can't talk down to, metaphorically and literally, since he can fly over Lex's tallest-tower-in-the-city. Luthor was incensed at this final great line....Lex will never look up to anyone. He likes his people down on their metaphorical knees looking up to him.

Luthor likes power. Luthor is an American self-made man who brought himself out of the powerless ghetto to being an incredibly powerful billionaire. Luthor is arrogant. Luthor likes to do what he wants. Luthor is selfish. Luthor doesn't like it when anyone can threaten that power. Much like John Ashcroft and George Bush or the head of the CIA. And he hates and distrusts all superheros, ESPECIALLY non-human ones. Nice xenophobia anti-alien racist bit there, too, fueled by the noble dictum that humanity should always write its own destiny.

There's also a nice one-shot called THE UNAUTHORIZED BIOGRAPHY OF LEX LUTHOR that deals with the post-crisis Luthor's past.

And, in post-Crisis Superman comics, around ACTION 700 or 800, Supes & Lois and co. also proved that Luthor was crooked. Luthor then went a bit more nuts than usual and set off bombs all across Metropolis. The public was shocked. He went to jail. Then faked his own death, came back to the public as his illegitimate son (they literally saved Luthor's brain and put it into a clone, how awesome is that) with flaming long curly red hair. He said he regretted his father's evil deeds and set out to clear the family name.

Then all the clones in the DCU started getting sick (Superboy too, since the post-Crisis Superboy is a clone), which included the cloned "son of" Luthor. Then this thing called UNDERWORLD UNLEASED happened where lots of DCU supervillains made a deal with the DCU "devil," whose name I forget. Luthor's deal was that he agreed to sell his soul (yipes! but that's what the story said) for a new, healthy body. So he got it (but no restored hair - the devil's little joke on him, although they did often draw Lex in this period with red eyebrows, which looked sinister and cool), and soon came out and had his "son" die and revealed that he was alive and his faked death wasn't all it was cracked up to be. This brought us back to the Luthor status quo.

I think his having run for President - and won - made for a great story. The public, just like the real life American public, forgave him his bout of insantiy and bombing Metropolis - he said it was a bout of mental illness and he wasn't normally like that. In time everyone forgot about it.
 
 
EvskiG
17:43 / 03.09.03
As for pre-Crisis Luthor, I think Elliot S. Maggin wrote the definitive explanation of his motivation:

"Luthor was not motivated by a desire for money, or power, or beautiful women, or even freedom. In solitary Luthor decided that his motivation was beyond even the love or hate or whatever it was he had for humanity. It was consuming desire for godhood, fired by the unreasonable conviction that such a thing was somehow possible. He began by being an honest man. He was a criminal and said so."

Here's a bit more:

Lex Luthor firmly believed in the theory that there was some Universal law yet unexpressed by the temporal humans who lived on Earth, which explained the clashes of great opposing forces. When the United States teetered at the brink of collapse, a socio-political genius named Lincoln appeared to steer the potentially disastrous forces in the direction of positive reform. When Caesar began to amass dangerous power, Brutus found the moral strength to stop him. When armies of procreating hominids of various states of development began to overrun the habitable areas of the Eastern Hemisphere and compete with each other for food, there arose homo sapiens with their wheels, their tools and their weapons to subjugate the land and take the future for their own. When a super-powered alien brought his hyperactive sense of propriety across the heavens in order to cram it down the gullets of perfectly capable, sentient Terrans, there came Luthor, a creative marvel who alone among the human community was capable of keeping that self-important, cape-waving pork-face in his place. Luthor saw himself, as he saw Lincoln, Brutus and the inventor of the wheel, to be an integral part of the eddies and currents of the Universe. He was a product of natural law.

For every social force, Luthor thought, there is an equal and opposite social force to balance it. Maybe that was the Universal law he had in mind. Maybe it was that simple. In one of the hundreds of biographies of the man that Luthor read before he was old enough to balance an oxidation-reduction reaction, he found that Einstein would approach each new problem of physics the same way. Evidently the old man would sit back in his chair, close his eyes and ask himself how he would arrange the Universe if he were God. When Lex Luthor now asked himself the same question he came to the inevitable conclusion that his rule about the balancing of social forces was true. Everything is in or approaching a state of equilibrium. There is no good and bad, no right and wrong, no Heaven and Hell. There is not even any middle ground. There is just dead center.

Therefore, Luthor had to do all he could to make life difficult for Superman. Not to do so was equivalent to trying to repeal Ohm's Law or Pauli's Exclusion Principle. It was Luthor's duty to the Balance of Nature.


Maggin's Superman books Last Son of Krypton and Miracle Monday are online at:

http://aphaynai-mataion.nu/thebook/lsok_contents.php
http://aphaynai-mataion.nu/thebook/mm_contents.php

And here's a Maggin story from the Superman comic about pre-Crisis Luthor's motivation:

http://superman.ws/tales2/luthor/?page=1
 
 
FinderWolf
18:58 / 03.09.03
Also, FYI, Luthor originally had 2 bodyguards, named, cheesily enough, Hope and Mercy. I think Hope had a crisis of conscience and left in some recent poorly-written Supes comics, leaving only Mercy (or maybe Mercy's the only one to get translated to the animated series).

John Byrne had a famous Luthor backup story about Luthor randomly playing games with the lives of poor little waitresses in midwest hick diners, promising them lots of cash if they'd just go off with him and be his love slaves. Seriously!! It was a back-up in SUPERMAN #8 or somewhere near there. He did it just to see if they would throw away their principles and do it.
 
 
Aertho
19:49 / 03.09.03
So, would it be more interesting to be told the Superman story from Lex's perspective?

I mean, subtracting the emphasis on ego, what you've just described sounds to me like the story of a man who develops a very solid and functioning awareness of the human machine, sociologically, economically, and potentially spiritually. Let's blow out the fucking scale here and look at this completely different. Suppose Luther IS one of the Illuminati, and uses his knowledge for the betterment of all the world, using Metropolis as a testing ground. He's interested in the long view like Hark and understands that doing the Greater Good means doing evil on a small scale.

And here's this alien bastard that thinks HE knows what's "Good", and he ends up consistently fucking with the system. I mean, if Superman saves the train from derailing, he prevents the train designers from discovering the problem design flaw and ensures future tradgedies from occurring. Morose as it sounds, ordinary people benefit from strangers' accidental deaths. How many people have been saved from certain death by Superman, glutting the system that grows healthy from dealing with such problems. And I've said nothing about property damage and accidental injuries that occur from Superman's dealing with "supervillians". Maybe Lex hires these villains to counter Superman's actions and insure that some accidents DO occur?

Maybe Lex is the turquoise level Superman, and Clark IS the blue level villain. Could we get Morrison or Moore to wirte this? I think it's a killer contemporary fable.
 
 
EvskiG
20:15 / 03.09.03
It's just been done by Millar in Red Son. (Millar has said his conception of Luthor was influenced by Elliot S. Maggin.) And Azarello is going to explore the issue in Man of Steel in 2004.
 
 
Aertho
20:31 / 03.09.03
Well, I'm intrigued, but Millar is... Millar. I'll have to find Azzarello's next year
 
 
Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo
20:40 / 03.09.03
And, remember in Pre-Crisis continuity, Luthor had a planet he was the Hero of, to the point of them giving him statues and such...

Maggin's one of the few writers who could do GOOD Pre-Crisis Superman stories on a regular basis (Cary Bates was the other), and they wrote Luthor as a man who thought he was evil and didn't care if people thought of him as evil. Sadly, I don't agree with that motivation. Having worked with people in the justice system, they don't think they are evil...and most of them will admit to crimes they weren't caught for. But, they still see themselves are the hero, a person who needs to break the law to do what they feel is right.
 
 
grant
20:55 / 03.09.03
In Morrison's JLA run, that's basically how Lex is presented. What's interesting is how that view of him (human-centric Balance of Nature supergenius) is contrasted with Bruce Wayne/Batman. Who is a similar sort of figure, but forged by tragedy rather than optimism.
 
 
EvskiG
21:18 / 03.09.03
I don't think pre-Crisis Luthor thought of himself as evil -- just as a misunderstood genius who found it necessary to be a criminal.

As mentioned above, here are two classic stories about Lexor, the world where Luthor is a hero:

http://superman.ws/tales3/showdown/

http://superman.ws/tales2/luthor-super-hero/
 
 
Aertho
22:01 / 03.09.03
Perhaps there's a story there: A tale of two billionaires, one hardened by the long view and seen as evil by doing the Harsh Good, and the other gone mad trying to do the quick and self-motivated good against the "Evil" in men.
 
 
A
05:56 / 04.09.03
John Byrne had a famous Luthor backup story about Luthor randomly playing games with the lives of poor little waitresses in midwest hick diners, promising them lots of cash if they'd just go off with him and be his love slaves.

I've read that story, and I wouldn't mind betting a few bucks that whoever wrote the script for that shitty movie Indecent Proposal has read it, too.
 
 
El Gato Was Right: the t-shirt
11:57 / 06.09.03
These comics are weird as fuck.

Superman gets saved from San Francisco's Great Earthquake by Lillian Russell, they ride off on a tandem bicycle, and in the next panel Superman's got on a chef's hat. He's using his heat vision to cook food for the quake victims.

I was going to say I was bummed out that Superman doesn't drop Luthor back at planet Lexor, where Luthor was considered a hero. Wouldn't be wise though since Lex used the devices on Lexor in an attempt to fight Superman. Lex had it made, but he couldn't leave well enough alone.
 
 
Jack Denfeld
11:52 / 12.02.07
So do you like evil business man lex best or mad scientist lex? Or a combination? How is he being portrayed in 52?
 
 
Spaniel
12:40 / 12.02.07
Evil business man
 
 
Jake, Colossus of Clout
16:57 / 12.02.07
The 52 Lex is awful.

I prefer evil businessman Lex, myself.
 
 
murphy
17:50 / 12.02.07
He's got a small weinie.
 
 
Shiny: Well Over Thirty
18:43 / 12.02.07
I like a combination. My favourite version of Lex, the one from Red Son certainly had heavy elements of both. I also think the much as I consider the guys work deeply patchy Johns writes a pretty decent version of Lex outside of 52. The whole ‘I can cure cancer, end world hunger, and generally solve all the worlds problems – and I will just as soon as I’ve killed the alien’ thing he’s got going on in Johns stuff puts an interesting spin on the character for me. He really believes he could make the world a paradise, and he really believes he would, if he could just get rid of Superman first. I like this approach because on the first impression it makes him nicely evil and twisted, which is always good in a villain, but looked at from another angle it’s got the potential to be treated with a fair amount of psychological complexity. Underneath all the big talk Lex knows there’s really a good chance he could succeed at all those good things he says he wants to do eventually – but he also knows there’s a very real chance he’d fail, even though he’d never admit it, and he couldn’t bear to fail in a fair contest – so he sets himself the one task it’s okay for him to fail at, time and time again, the one task he probably realizes subconsciously is beyond even his considerable abilities, to destroy Superman – and when he fails as he always does, well there’s no shame in that – he was fighting Superman – it was never a fair contest, because Lex is only human. I don’t think these depths have really been explored in post 8C Lex yet, but the potential is definitely there to played with.

That being said all of that makes 52 Lex all the more frustrating. I really like Johns Lex, I love George’s Lex in ASS, and I imagine Waid can write Lex excellently as well, although I can’t recall ever reading him do so. And yet somehow the Lex in 52 is just kind of generic evil guy. It’s most perplexing.
 
  
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