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Chuck Austen's using Xorn (pics)

 
 
I'm Rick Jones, bitch
07:21 / 01.09.03




 
 
doctorbeck
07:42 / 01.09.03
i am stunned by the lumpen prose, first time i have read his x-stuff, reading it is like swimming in treacle.
 
 
I'm Rick Jones, bitch
09:49 / 01.09.03
Swimming in shite, more like.

you'll be thankful I missed out the beating of fishboy in pages 1 + 2. Lumpen angst a go-go.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
10:06 / 01.09.03
Do you think Morrison has told Austen what Xorn's role in 'Planet X' will be? Because apart from not having the distinctive speech patterns that Morrison gives him, Xorn here also seems incredibly sinister, in a very heavy-handed way...
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
10:46 / 01.09.03
< shrugs > Seems to me to be of about equal quality to what Morrison's been writing over in 'New' in recent months. Admittedly I don't read Uncanny but I see nothing in the above to warrant fanboy sneers over the quality or lack thereof in Austen's work.
 
 
I'm Rick Jones, bitch
11:04 / 01.09.03
Fine. To explain why Austin is so bad, I will post the rest of that there preview:







I think Xorn's sinister air is the result of Austen's cack-handedness more than anything, Fly. Nice fucking art though, eh? Tan's a good 'un.

And the nurse and her kid! Annie and Carter are ugly, boring, fictional people! What's the gravitational attraction to their horrible story arcs?
 
 
sleazenation
11:20 / 01.09.03
Well everything that i've ever read written by Chuck Austin (3 review issues of war machine and the cheap uncanny) has left me appalled at his lack of talent. But what the hey - someone is obviously buying it. I know I won't be. That way I don't have to read it.
 
 
A
11:38 / 01.09.03
Does Fish Boy have exactly the same "origin story" as Angel did in NewXMen, or am I missing a bunch of subtle differences? Anyway, Xorn's a company owned character written under work-for-hire. If Marvel want to get the office hamster to write him, they can and will (and have?)
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
15:00 / 01.09.03
Yeah. Provided that he doesn't die in Planet X, I would hope that Xorn sticks around in the X-Universe for a long time to come. I want the Grant characters to have a lasting effect on the X-world, not just disappear when he does. I think Xorn is a great character, and there's probably a lot that can be done with him. Chuck Austen's a total hack, and I'd hope that it wouldn't be him in charge of the character, but I'd want someone to use him. That goes for Beak, Angel, the Cuckoos, the U-Men, etc.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
15:03 / 01.09.03
And by the way, geez, why not just post the rest of the issue, man? We've got half of a comic in this thread - is that really necessary?
 
 
dlotemp
15:31 / 01.09.03
Rhetorical question - Why is Austen so reviled? Who is buying his work?

The answer ultimately rests with the answer that the mass public has an appetite for a variety of writing. Some is sophomoric claptrap and some is high-minded. I think if we look at Austen in an objective manner we'll be forced to admit that he is a servicable writer. He has some ideas that could be interesting - bizarre love triangles, the question of religious faith among homo superior - but it is handled far to matter-of-factly. It lacks subtly. Some what like his use of Xorn.

Admittedly, Xorn must be a difficult character to use because he has been portrayed purposely as engimatic. His speech is littered with Koan-like dialogue. It's like his mutant power works through him and not the reverse, which, by the way, his power has been kept deliberately vague. Austen places Xorn in a dialogue that is an ersatz-politcal one. I don't see Xorn being interested in such things, and having less of an ability to operate in such debates, since he's been imprisoned for much of his life and hasn't had much opportunity to engage in debating.

Austen sees the character differently, which is fine for his book, I suppose.
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
16:22 / 01.09.03
The Dad's dialogue is rather crap, if you aren't allowed to use 'bitch' in a comic then you can't just replace it with 'woman' without it sounding incredibly stupid.

Girl in the Radioator: And the nurse and her kid! Annie and Carter are ugly, boring, fictional people!

Would it be better if they were pretty, boring, fictional people?
 
 
Mike-O
17:10 / 01.09.03
If Xorn does indeed harbor a somewhat sinister personality, it has always thus far been masked with his generally pacifist-like nature (aside from that little incident in the woods with the U-Men and Angel in 136). Whether his character is going thru an evolution or not, would that not be Morrison's ship to guide? And further, to have him suddenly act out of character in a book that isn't even his own...? Austen DOES have some potential as a writer in my mind, which lies in his thematic/ideaological visions for the book, but his poor execution is what ultimately brings his shit down for me.

But this Xorn trash? I say leave Morrison's characters to him, and let him destroy them on his way out if he so chooses... would be the honourable avenue but probably not the likely one, eh? Fack.
 
 
dlotemp
17:34 / 01.09.03
Mike-O: First, let me state that I generally don't like Austen's writing and agree with the principles you espouse. But I urge a certain amount of pragmatism here. The X-men characters are controlled by Marvel, who have decided that they want different writers to have different takes on characters; a perfectly valid strategy if you want a lot of variety and don't mind some books not appealing to others.

For instance, I recall a weird incident a few Uncanny's ago during Austen's current run. I believe it was an issue or two before Alex and Lorna's wedding. Anyway, Austen had Scott make an affectionate comment to his brother about Lorna. He also gave Alex the thumbs up. These items seem perfectly innocouos until you look at NEW X-MEN and realize that Morrison has cauterized Scott's external emotions for his story. Obviously the X-Editors don't care if the characters act differently in their books, even though these books are running vaguely parallel to each other.

You just have to shrug it off.
 
 
grant
18:51 / 01.09.03
I just reread the Xorn origin story last night. He's a pretty scary character. The Chinese were using him like an experimental nuclear reactor and killing people with him. He's bound to be a little... altered by his imprisonment. He has no face. He has no face.
 
 
bio k9
19:09 / 01.09.03
HE!

HAS!

NO!

FACE!
 
 
sleazenation
19:45 / 01.09.03
hmmmm imprisoned for 40 years with little or no human contact and used as a nuclear reactor for most of that time...

You got to wonder at the required pedagogic skills Professor Xavier thought Xorn might have aquired during that time...

Either that or Prof X is looking for a whole something else when assessing the abilities of hie would be teachers...
 
 
Mike-O
19:56 / 01.09.03
dlotemp: I understand your point. Without a doubt, rational thinking ultimately makes me realize that to perceive that a "pop" character, such as Xorn has become, would dissapear simply because Morrison has completed his run with the X-Men is pretty ridiculous, and thusly the "reinterpretation" of characters such as Xorn (and undoubtedly Beak as well) is a relatively unavoidable outcome. The bottom line is that the "X-Men" concept exists as a franchisable one, though what IS unfortunate is that consistency within character interpretation seems to be less important within Marvel's current impetus. But then, who am I to question that? If sales on Uncanny X-Men are up, then I'm talking out of my ass b/c my inability to appreciate Austen's take on ANY character, let alone Xorn, is an inconsequential perspective on the whole. Assuming we forget about creator-character integrity. But then I guess one could say that Nightcralwer had been bastardized to hell by Claremont (given Cockrum's vision of his character), and yet most would see Claremont's take on Kurt Wagner as the quintessential one. So where do u stand on this issue, dlotemp? What matter more in your eyes; the "artistic vision" of current creators, judged ultimately by the sales of their book? Or the original creators' goals/vision for their character?
 
 
Mike-O
20:06 / 01.09.03
sleazenation: Interesting perspective, calling into question Xavier's integrity as a "professor" at all. I suppose I would agree, though I'd imagine you've either hit the nail on the head, or perhaps Xavier has simply let his pedantic/uncannily optimistic tendancies blind him from considering the hard questions as far as the state of Xorn's psyche is concerned.

But then maybe he has and we just don't know it yet....?

DUN!
DUN!
DAAAAAAAAAA!!!
(the eerieness of a newly considered conspiracy sets the mood here at Barbelith.com... )
 
 
Mike-O
20:13 / 01.09.03
Oh, and PS dlotemp: I realize, too, that though I love Morrison's interpretation of the X-Men in NXM, I can see how that too differs greatly with much of what has come before it.... in the end, to me, I suppose your original point is the most rational one: follow the interpretation you most like, b/c to think that such will be the ONLY interpretation is ridiculous.
 
 
dlotemp
00:22 / 02.09.03
Mike-O:

I must confess that I've been reading comics for, yea gods, nigh-30 years and have learned to try stoicism in situations like this regarding Xorn. For instance, I've seen many characters rise from their mediocre beginnings under the hands of some writers. Wolverine is a prime example; a character that went nowhere when he first appeared and then rocketed to stardom under the gaes of other hands. You could even make a case for Batman since many people feel that Bill Finger and Dick Sprang did more to build the character than Bob Kane. I don't think the creator of a character necessarily has prima facie control of it, unless they own the media rights of course.

But to answer your question, I think I'm more interested in the artistic vision of current creators in regards to corporate-owned properties. The intentions of creators are implicitly rendered moot when the characters are owned by corporations.
 
 
Tamayyurt
00:41 / 02.09.03
Bill Finger and Dick Sprang

These can't possibly be real names, right?
 
 
I'm Rick Jones, bitch
08:58 / 02.09.03
RE: Fluxy, I posted what was in the preview. Marvel's giving 'em away these days: Can anyone remember when the whole run of Ultimate X-Men and The Ultimates was on the marvel dotcomics site?
 
 
I'm Rick Jones, bitch
09:10 / 02.09.03
To answer dlotemp, I don't hate Austen on any kind of level. His Ultimate Gambit story? Loved it. Indeed, I enjoyed what I read of that "hope" story, which he kind of wrote before his run had found it's own feet. And when it did, what strange, lumpen hooves they were.
 
 
FinderWolf
14:55 / 02.09.03
I don't think Sprang and Finger were pen names, impulsive, but I could be wrong. These two were right in there with Bob Kane in creating all the stuff that made Batman Batman.
 
 
grant
16:55 / 02.09.03
By the way, how have you all been pronouncing "Xorn"?

It struck me while I was rereading... my instinct, confronted with names like Xavier and Xerxes is to pronounce it to rhyme with the alternative jazz musician. Zorn.

But he's Chinese -- in pinyin, "x" is a hissy "sh," so he'd really rhyme with the state of one who has just been worked over by a barber.

Shorn.

I bet there's something to that.
 
 
Mr Tricks
19:15 / 02.09.03
On one of our other threds i posted my attempt at translating the name Xorn and found the phrase "Xan" (I believe) which ment "brilliant like a star" or something to that effect.
 
 
dlotemp
23:31 / 02.09.03
Bill Finger and Dick Sprang were indeed real people.

I'm going to diverge from the general topic a bit guys so feel free to ignore this post after I give my answer. Thanks for the patience.

The question of creator's rights in comics has deviled the field almost from the start. Siegel and Shuster were infamously shorn of their rights to Superman, and some will question whether they ever received proper recompense for their priceless creation. But there is an intriguing flip-side to the equation. Bob Kane, creator of Batman, actually retained his rights to Batman and made it a point that DC comics create him in all the early Batman comics. In fact, Kane was usually credited for work that he didn't perform. Bill Finger wrote and Dick Sprang drew many of the seminal early Batman stories introducing Robin, Two-Face and others. Yet, Bill Finger was rarely recognized outside of the field for his contributions to the development of Batman. There was a recent issue of Alter Ego, the fanzine by Roy Thomas, that delineates some of Finger's contributions.

I know...strange names, but all true.

You may return to your regularly scheduled debate in progress.


PS - I pronounce it Zorn, ala avantgarde musician John Zorn, but what do I know.
 
 
Professor Silly
19:19 / 03.09.03
When confronted by different pronunciations, I like to combine them:

Shzorn
 
 
Professor Silly
19:25 / 03.09.03
Oh, and while I'm at it I'll mention my current interpretation of Xorn's killing of the U-Men.

Keeping in mind a Taoist/Buddhistic approach similiar to Shao Lin (a theme I see throughout Grant's run on NXM) Xorn would act to protect the children. His opponents want to kill the children. Lacking Xavier's ability to change the U-Men's minds, he has to choose how to physically stop them. With the U-Men's weapons, he had little choice but to utterly obliviate them, with the powers he has.

...we never question this type of behavior in a good Kung Fu movie....
 
 
CameronStewart
14:51 / 12.09.03
>>>By the way, how have you all been pronouncing "Xorn"?<<<

My girlfriend is chinese and says that in Mandarin it would probably be pronounced "Zho-ahn."
 
 
_Boboss
15:11 / 12.09.03
well xorn's characterisation suddenly seems pretty spot-on now. i once tried to post dick sprang's name on herorealm and it came up as **** Sprang
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
19:03 / 12.09.03
there's a succesful architecture practice in glasgow called Elder and Cannon.

The Principal is called Dick Cannon.

I find that offensive.
 
 
I'm Rick Jones, bitch
14:46 / 13.09.03
DICK CANNON! sounds like something someone might shout in a capcom game, no?
 
 
Just Add Water
14:46 / 04.10.03
Well, this is fun reading in retrospect.
 
  
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