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Bush declares fetus a "child"

  
 
betty woo
12:30 / 01.02.02
... from the moment of conception. Another salvo in his anti-abortion agenda, disguised as an effort to help pregnant mothers with healthcare costs. As Gloria Feldt, the president of the Planned Parenthood Federation of America, said, "If the goal really was expanding prenatal access, they would say we're going to cover more pregnant women."

CNN article
 
 
suds
12:51 / 01.02.02
i am so glad you started this thread. i am actually writing my dissertation about this very subject.
the bush administration first tried to overturn roe vs wade and that was never gonna happen, then they have been trying to get this 'unborn victims of violence' act passed for a long time now, and i guess now they've decided to go about it all a different route, the fuckers.
the fuckers.
this means that in the us, it'll be a situation like in 'the handmaid's tale' i really think so. who will have control over womens reproduction? the state. scary.
inga muscio in 'cunt' says that all ladies have the power within themselves to self-abort. but maybe that's putting women under too much pressure...?
 
 
suds
13:15 / 01.02.02
to protest dubya's actions,
go http://www.capwiz.com/now/issues/alert/?alertid=94974&type=CO here.
i would, but i'm a non-US citizen. bah.
 
 
Ierne
13:22 / 01.02.02
From the article:

"While Medicaid already provides prenatal care for many low-income women, there are still tens of thousands every year who are not eligible under current regulations until after their child is born, or who may even then not qualify under Medicaid even though their child will indeed qualify" under the State Children's Health Program, or SCHIP, Thompson said in a statement.

...Administration officials denied that abortion politics are a factor in their decision. Rather, they noted that states had to return $3.2 billion in SCHIP funds to the federal government last year because they were not able to spend the money

Coming from a "low-income" background, I may have to work a bit harder to clear the red mists of rage from my eyes...

Would the government rather have these "low income women" left at home, saddled with a bunch of children and living for the next benefits check, rather than putting this excess money towards (wait for it!) EDUCATION so these women can get out of their situation and affect some changes in their community?

Tough question, eh?
 
 
rizla mission
13:23 / 01.02.02
I was going to unleash another incoherent stream of swear words aimed in the general direction of the US government, but it's been getting pretty tiresome recently, I mean I honestly don't think I can type enough 'fuck's to keep up anymore..
 
 
kid coagulant
13:56 / 01.02.02
The fucking bastards. And since when is the Bush administration at all concerned w/ providing low income people (or any people for that matter) w/ health coverage of any sort? Seem to remember reading somewhere that Bush was pledging $100 million or so to encourage unwed mothers to get married, thus solving all of their (and the country's, presumably) problems. Will try to find some info on it.
 
 
netbanshee
14:46 / 01.02.02
I'm not too worried about this, honestly. Just some guy spouting off what he thinks is good for everyone. I think as long as there is one person who's considering this method of dealing with things, it won't be taken away from women. That said..it does piss me off though.

This is such a volatile subject here that I don't think anything but changing healthcare options or other related particulars will be effected. Plus the cost is below $500 dollars which relatively speaking isn't that costly for a procedure of its kind.
 
 
MJ-12
15:02 / 01.02.02
dude, if you're low (or no) income, don't have it in the bank, and have little things like rent and food you have to cover, $500 is an unglodly amount of money.
 
 
netbanshee
15:14 / 01.02.02
...not really speaking for myself...I agree with you...been living off of quarters lately (no joke). Anyway...current healthcare coverage by many insurances and medical access/planplus is available and may qualify to cover it partially or completely. I think if you're considering this method, you'll find a way to pay for it.
 
 
bitchiekittie
18:26 / 01.02.02
kinda off the current topic but this declaration makes me wonder if there will be "bereavement leave" available for the millions of women who suffer very early term miscarriages every year?
 
 
Ierne
18:28 / 01.02.02
This is such a volatile subject here that I don't think anything but changing healthcare options or other related particulars will be effected. Plus the cost is below $500 dollars which relatively speaking isn't that costly for a procedure of its kind. – to banshee or not to banshee

You don't specify the "procedure" – are you refering to abortion?
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
19:35 / 01.02.02
quote:Originally posted by Rizla Year Zero:
I mean I honestly don't think I can type enough 'fuck's to keep up anymore..

Seven pages, fourteen point, bold, italic, capitalized. That shoud do it.
 
 
netbanshee
04:45 / 02.02.02
quote:You don't specify the "procedure" – are you refering to abortion?

Abortion..it is. A look at planned parenthood and their rates in the US puts the cost of an abortion @ around $400 U.S. And for those that qualify, it is cheaper (students, etc.).
 
 
bio k9
07:09 / 02.02.02
Maybe someone should tell him that all unwanted children grow up to become terrorists.

Arrrgh! This shit pisses me off. Abortions and pre/post-operation counselling should be free (and freely available) to anyone that wants them. I understand that a lot of people don't want their tax $ to go to abortion clinics. Thats fine. I don't want my tax $ to be used to explore Mars or help build better bombs. But I don't get a choice do I?

It seems like every six months or so some girl ditches her baby in a dumpster or outside the ER and that shit needs to stop.
 
 
Devin 1984
13:24 / 08.02.02
As a radical leftist, I have to say the pro-abortion stance is the Achilles Heel of the progressive movement.

As an Atheist and Vegetarian, I believe we should kill absolutely nothing. Even a fetus inside our bodies.

The argument "It's my body, I can abort it if I want," is ridiculous. It is not your body, it is the body of a new person.

"It wouldn't survive without my body." Of course it wouldn't, and it wouldn't survive out of your womb either once born, so that argument is ridiculous as well.

Abortion is the result of greedy, and selfish baby boomers. We Gen Xers have to see through their selfishness and realize that it isn't a case of Government interfering with civil liberties, it is government telling us we can't murder a child.

But, I also believe we have too many humans on this earth, so let the genocide continue!

I won't argue this with people, because it's impossible to change anyone's mind. I was just stating my pov.
 
 
odd jest on horn
14:28 / 08.02.02
i'm assuming that this is a troll, because if it isn't, i'm going to have to go somewhere to cry, but i'm compelled to feed it

quote:
As a radical leftist, I have to say the pro-abortion stance is the Achilles Heel of the progressive movement.


how is it the Achilles Heel of the "progressive movement" ?

quote:
As an Atheist and Vegetarian, I believe we should kill absolutely nothing. Even a fetus inside our bodies.


taking it further.

have you, since you adopted this stance ever had a bacterial infection and taken antibiotics to combat it? do you believe that it's better to amputate, then to use antibiotics? if it's not possible to amputate, would you be willing to sacrifice yourself for the greater good?


quote:
"It wouldn't survive without my body." Of course it wouldn't, and it wouldn't survive out of your womb either once born, so that argument is ridiculous as well.


are you saying that fetuses can be transplanted after they've latched on to the uterus? seeing as other people can take a child and take care of it once it's born.
unfortunately, that doesn't mean that the pregnant mother will neccessarily be able to keep her job.

quote:
Abortion is the result of greedy, and selfish baby boomers. We Gen Xers have to see through their selfishness and realize that it isn't a case of Government interfering with civil liberties, it is government telling us we can't murder a child.


"no more coat hangers". do you think that it was greedy people who used this alternative to an abortion clinic? or is it possible that they were desperate about losing their job, not a well paying job mind you, cuz otherwise they could just have gone to europe to get it done in a safe environment, or to a black clinic.

this battle, which hasn't been won yet, was about giving to the poor the means to do what the rich did matter of factly. or didn't have to do cuz they have it made anyway so can afford to raise a child.

quote:
But, I also believe we have too many humans on this earth, so let the genocide continue!


genocide means to kill a nation or a particular race. i don't think fetuses constitue either.

and as a radical leftist you ought to know that the food production of the US alone is enough to sustain all mankind. pollution could also be fought easily. and the way to control the population explosion is clearly education and contraceptions. abortion is a desperate measure, and should be freely available to all. in a perfect world it wouldn't be neccessary, but it's not perfect.


quote:
I won't argue this with people, because it's impossible to change anyone's mind. I was just stating my pov.


you could have just kept quiet. you were arguing your point of view. so there.
 
 
Ierne
15:22 / 08.02.02
Thanks, odd jest on horn.

One's personal stand or opinion on abortion isn't the point of this thread, anyway. The thread is dealing with a potential loss of hard-earned freedom disguised as healthcare reform.

[ 08-02-2002: Message edited by: Ierne ]
 
 
Tom Coates
17:40 / 08.02.02
Just want to say that as a late Gen Xer myself I certainly don't consider abortion to be the indulgence of a baby boomer generation.

The only thing that I think it is useful to say about Abortion is that while the matter seems immediately and totally clear to an awful lot of people, the conclusion they come to is radically different and diametrically opposed. In those circumstances it seems to be best ot leave it to the consciences of the people concerned.
 
 
Haus Of Pain
21:30 / 08.02.02
Hindermate declares George Bush a fetus!

No really, he does!
 
 
Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero
20:28 / 09.02.02
quote:Originally posted by Devin 1984:
As an Atheist and Vegetarian, I believe we should kill absolutely nothing. Even a fetus inside our bodies.

I trust everyone can see why this is a rediculous argument (vegetarians kill things too, kid) and that there is no need for any further commment.

...ah, hell with it. Death is not a bad thing that should be avoided at all costs. Not only is it futile, but it's silly as well. It may not be enjoyable for all involved, but death is part of a cycle and an anti-death stance is also an anti-life stance. All the vegetarians I know are not so because they don't want to kill anything, but because they are against the organized slaughter involved in the meat industry. As my pal Danforth puts it, "A cow has the right to chill and, y'know, be a cow. And a wolf has the right to be a wolf and eat that cow with his wolf buddies. I just don't don't like the idea of something being born with the specific plan of organized destruction in mind".


quote:The argument "It's my body, I can abort it if I want," is ridiculous. It is not your body, it is the body of a new person.

Technically, the fetus exists as part of the mother's internal system until it is born, when it's own internal systems take over. But is it still a seperate entity? It's too close to call either way, so no one can say with any accuracy what the final judgement is. It comes down to personal opinion, and saying "my personal opinion is right and yours is downright stupid" is illogical.


quote:I won't argue this with people, because it's impossible to change anyone's mind. I was just stating my pov.

Bah. You won't argue because that would mean you can't hide your faulty half-assed logic behind "a personal opinion that can't be changed". Your arguments have the depth of a soundbyte, because that's all they are.

It isn't so much that I am pro-choice that I am anti shitty-argumentitive skills. Don't come if you don't want/know how to play.

I think that a lot of people on either side of the argument would change their postitions pretty quickly if they were in a situation involving an unplanned child in a low-income household. It's a hard choice, and making it before you have any need to can sometimes lead to innaccurate results in regard to what you actually would feel in the situation. I've seen it happen to both sides before.

So what would I do? I have no clue, and the thought of having to make a desicion like this is very frightening. That's why I take precautions so that I won't ever have to decide.
 
  
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