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My government is worse than your government

 
  

Page: (1)2

 
 
Jackie Susann
00:47 / 29.01.02
so the idea is to have a kind of contest to see whose government is worst. obviously US kids have a huge advantage since there's is so much bigger, but you have to think/argue porportionally so the rest of us have a chance. i reckon, relative to size and (economic/military) strength, i can make a case that australia is worse than the u.s.

anyway, you CANNOT defend your country, go elsewhere for that - but you can defend other people's countries to undercut their attempts to win.

and so, away. the argument for australia obviously starts with terra nullius, the idea that australia was uninhabited when captain cook landed - leading to hundreds of years of attempted genocide against the indigenous people, who only became legal citizens in the 1960s. australian government refuses to so much as apologise for any of this. also, obviously, ongoing indigenous dispossession and racism.

next big one would be support for indonesia's occupation of east timor, in particular australia being one of the only countries to accept indonesia's claim to sovereignty over east timor, our military training indonesian soldiers and the timor gap treaty (which a supposedly left government negotiated with indonesia to exploit timorese oil). not to mention the general shafting east timorese refugees received from governments for a decade or so.

which of course brings us to today, and the industrialised world's most regressive refugee policy, i.e., mandatory, indefinite detention for people without visas. in particular, woomera detention centre, the 'facility' with no air conditioning in the middle of the desert which houses around a thousand people. notoriously racist guards, razor wire, insufficient services, lack of visitor access. currently, many at woomera are on hunger strikes and many had sewn their lips together (most have now removed the stitches as concessions in negotiations with the government). last week, a group of men swallowed chemicals in a mass suicide attempt; another detainee threw himself onto razor wire. these are the only forms of protest open to the detainees.

a government spokesperson has publicly states that the refugees have only themselves to blame if anyone is hurt; immigration minister philip ruddock said that stitching their lips together, quote-unquote, 'offends the sensibilities' of australians. the government is maintaining a hardline, no concessions negotiating policy. most tragically, a group of 11 children there without parents or guardians (i believe, aged around 15) stated several days ago that they would kill themselves if they were not released into foster care. they have set a deadline of 5 this evening; if they have not been released, they say they will kill themselves. it isn't clear whether they will be i) able or ii) willing to carry out their threat.

can you beat that? the scary thing is you probably can.
 
 
Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero
13:57 / 29.01.02
quote:Originally posted by Dread Pirate Crunchy:
...leading to hundreds of years of attempted genocide against the indigenous people...


Bah. My country carried out one of the longest and most successful genocides in history. 90% of the indigenous population was wiped clean from the earth on purpose. Smallpox infected blankets! Go ahead, take 'em! They're fine! It'll save us bullets, anyway. And there's all the treaties, after which the government would give the natives a thrity minute head start before sending the army after them. And when they asked for our blatantly racist named professional teams to change their name, and they refused, the government did nothing about it. And we think it's so nice of us to call them "Native Americans". I'm sure if Russians came here and killed 90% of us, we'd be very honored indeed to be called "Native Russians"...

Then there's the years and years before we legally allowed blacks to vote (one of our own presidents, Wilson, was a avid white supremesist who pushed down a move to give voting rights to minorities during his term), Japanese internment camps ("You're japanese? You're probably working with the enemy. Get inside, traitor."), an ultra paranoid F.B.I. Director who instated blatantly anti-constitutional Counter Intelligence laws (which are about to be ressurected. Lets have a big hand for the return of "Preventative detention"! If we even think you're up to something, you're going to jail with no charge and no bail. Ha Ha Ha.), and a President that wasn't elected by popular vote (but nobody seems to care). These are just a few reasons why America has this hands down. Beat that.

Hey, I didn't even have to go into what we do to countries that aren't us.

[ 29-01-2002: Message edited by: Johnny the Zen bastard ]
 
 
Saveloy
15:52 / 29.01.02
Hang on Johnny - I think the deal is that you have to talk about the current government. Is that right, Crunchy?
 
 
Captain Zoom
18:55 / 29.01.02
My country won't let x-rated comics across the border.

Bastards.

Zoom.
 
 
Jackie Susann
09:05 / 30.01.02
I meant government as an ongoing thing, not just a current administration.

I think I can match most of Johnny's points but I want more people to play first...
 
 
w1rebaby
09:19 / 30.01.02
I think you have to set a backwards time limit for this game, otherwise it's going to get messy.

If not, I suppose the worst governments are the ones that get into their imperialist phase just at the right technology level where they can really do some damage. I'd say the British Empire was doing quite well there, but they may have come in just a little too early.
 
 
The Monkey
09:19 / 30.01.02
In terms of screwing over their own constituents, as opposed to third parties (like the N.A. or colonial peoples) the USSR gets the trophy every time. That Lenin-Stalin combo just about had the biggest butcher's bill ever for one government.

Let's see:
- elected Provisional Government of various radical parties machine-gunned by Bolsheviks, thus establishing the USSR.
- peasants forced into "collective farming" scheme that destroys rural economy and soil ecology in one shot, causing famine in which approximately 15 to 30 million die. No records are kept. Failure blamed on sabotage.
- during Civil War, all peasant villages suspected of giving food to Tsarist forces are razed and the population machine-gunned. Again, no records are kept.
- institution of a penal code with an automatic penalty of fifteen years for conspiracy against the party...later raise to twenty, then twenty-five, under Stalin. Furthermore, this penal code is kept concealed from non-officials, so the common man has no idea what his rights are.
- true to the "dictatorship of the proletariat," all foodstuffs created in countryside are seized by force and shipped to urban centers, leaving more peasants to starve. All peasants resisting the seizure are, again, machine-gunned.
- the Cheka and the NKVD, rounding up anyone suspected of non-Bolshevic thought, and forcing each detainee to name at least one other dissident. Torture applied vigorously.
- crimes soon expand to include: ever having a foreign boyfriend; having been abroad; ownership of copies of Pravda from before a certain date; homosexuality; Jewish descent; any social gathering of students; asking questions of Soviet policy...
- 20 million or more shipped off to slave labor camps in the Gulag Archipelago on basic "dissident charges," long before specific round-ups of intellectuals, church officials, and ethnic groups. Records are destroyed.
- in an overwhelmingly Russian Orthodox nation, the church is banned, the high officials executed on trumped-up treason charges, and the funds and material goods of the church disappear into the pockets of Party officials and Cheka/NKVD footmen.
- in a similar "pillaging" vein, all possessions of individuals seized by Cheka or NKVD disappear into pockets of the latter...resulting in greater numbers of "denunciations" and "seizures" against people with particularly nice stuff.
- government, true to its ideological basis, declares itself exempt of capitalist economic forces, creating the disastrous Five Year Plan, and throwing the country into even greater disarray and poverty. Failure blamed on shadowy conspiracy and sabotage.
- atop the latter, government declares old limitations of labor laws and agricultural-industrial organization "decadent."
- the former results in Dickensian work hours and the implementation of un-ironic "mandatory voluntary labor."
- the latter takes many forms:
- workers denouncing supervisors for instructing them how to do their job properly (the Moscow waterworks trial)
- the setting by politicians of crop and product quotas that literally violate the laws of thermodynamics and nature, followed by persecution and imprisonment of the labor organizers and engineers who fail to meet this standard (the PromParty trials).
- the attribution by the government of all policy failures to shadowy terrorist forces (White emigres, "wreckers," anarchists), resulting in public kangaroo trials and executions.
- the imprisonment or execution of all Russians of Manchu descent, for fear of espionage.
- investigation, persecution and imprisonment of local Party officials who somehow manage economic solvency for their region...obviously suspicious, given the shot-to-hell nature of the rest of the country....

...and we haven't even gotten to Stalin yet (except for the Manchu thing). Shall I keep going?
 
 
The Monkey
09:19 / 30.01.02
Barring historical cut-off points, I'd say the Provisional Government in France places. And show goes to post-Meiji Japan.

If you want proper proper current, though, I'd say China and the US tie...no, China wins for all-out viciousness to its own people, not to mention the Taiwanese, the Tibetans, the Manchu.... America just fucks over everybody else.

Love and kisses from the Outer Church,
[smack]

[ 30-01-2002: Message edited by: [infinite monkeys] ]
 
 
Jackie Susann
09:19 / 30.01.02
no no no! anyone can bag other people's governments - it is supposed to be kind of a creative, competitive exercise in anti-nationalism. come on, there is serious potlatch-style glory for the winner.
 
 
Persephone
09:19 / 30.01.02
Well, when I lived in Wisconsin, for your state income tax form, if you were a married couple, it was *required* that the man's name had to be listed first, as the head of the household. How annoying and paleolithic is that?
 
 
The Monkey
09:19 / 30.01.02
Hey, kemosabe, I was talking about my country, or at least one of them.
I was born in the USSR. In the course of my life, i've lived in Japan, the USSR, India, Pakistan, England, and Fiji. Now I'm in the US, and have a US passport.
Anway, how many countries are actually on this board? the US, Canada, Britain, and Australia. Kinda of a narrow field....
 
 
The Monkey
09:19 / 30.01.02
Hell, I'm only twenty-two and I've been detained or held for suspected espionage seven times.
 
 
Jackie Susann
09:19 / 30.01.02
there are also people from france, argentina, brazil and, i think, holland, off the top of my head.

damn, i didn't think i'd be competing with russia - you've certainly raised the bar. although i think there are at least a few south american states which could give you a run for your money.
 
 
The resistable rise of Reidcourchie
09:19 / 30.01.02
Colonial amatures.

Dread and Johnny both of the atrocities you claim for your own countries were begun in the name of the British Empire before they became independant states. We can claim indirect responsibility for the state of countries like China, India, Afghanistan, countless countries in Africa, even Vietnam. Throughout history we've attacked countries with more advanced societies but less sea power and gun powder and raped their resources whilst oppressing their populations and claiming we were helping "civilise" them. Hell we invented concentration camps. We may smugly claim that we banned slavery before America but we certainly made money from it, it was British boats going from Africa to America. We're a little more subtle than the heavy hitters like Stalin and Hitler but we've got a long history of fucking people over, a huge body count to show for it and we still do it very well.

Oh we'll sell arms to everyone (including Indonesia), our army now is pretty much a mercenary force and we're one of the few countries in Western Europe who'll machine gun it's own people.

Bring it on, you won't even see us coming.

Dread is this the kind of thing you're talking about.

[ 30-01-2002: Message edited by: The resistable rise of Reidcourchie ]
 
 
Fra Dolcino
09:19 / 30.01.02
quote:Originally posted by Captain Zoom:
My country won't let x-rated comics across the border.

Bastards.

Zoom.



That's nothing.

I can't legally buy a beer in a bar after 11pm in my country. Or look at an erect phallus.
 
 
The resistable rise of Reidcourchie
09:19 / 30.01.02
Can you buy an erect phallus in a bar before 11pm?

Sorry.

My country cuts films for censorship reasons even after they've been rated. Almost all of them.

And I still say if you haven't had an empire you can't play.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
09:19 / 30.01.02
Yeah, I'm with reid - once you bring history into it, in terms of fucking over the people of other countries, the English are hard to beat...

Possibly the most appalling thing about our government right now though, is the level of hypocrisy, the scale of disemblence. You know, the likes of Bush, Berlusconi and Howard, to pick three 'faves', are pretty clearly nasty, thuggish, moronic little thugs, but for some reason Tony Blair smiles that cocking smile and talks like a wooly-jumpered vicar, and people assume he must be reasonable... Like after September 11, when he was saying we'd go along with whatever America did (to the extent that when Charles Kennedy asked "surely we shouldn't give them a blank cheque?" Blair basically thew a mardy and told him not to use the term blank cheque, "shut up, liberals", etc), I kept hearing people saying "ah, but he's just getting onside with Bush so he can be a moderating influence - where does this assumption come from that Blair would want to be a moderating influence? The current government keeps demonstrating that they are profoundly anti-liberal, don't tolerate dissent, don't give a hoot about human or civil rights, want to privatise everything, enjoy the taste of corporate genitalia, want to replace the House of Lords with something even less accountable, etc etc etc, and yet people still give them the benefit of the doubt... The bastards sit there and smile and smile and claim to be the good guys, and dismiss any objections as silly and hysterical... Gah! I could rant on and on about this.

Mind you, much as we're not supposed to mention other people's governments, gotta say I've got a real hate on for Howard and Ruddock at the moment, Crunchy...

[ 30-01-2002: Message edited by: Flyboy ]
 
 
No star here laces
09:19 / 30.01.02
Our government allows a parasitic group of inbred, ugly and moronic Germans to squat in a historic monument in the centre of our capital, living a life of horse races, gin, drugs and truly crap fashion at the expense of the general populace. Not only that but they then allow the media to sell us vaguely titillating stories about same in order to generate more money for an Australian.

It may not be evil, but it certainly is farcical...
 
 
Kit-Cat Club
09:19 / 30.01.02
Hmm. I have some problems with the habit of referring to the Royal Family as 'Germans' as if this were an insult... every German I have ever met has been utterly charming. I prefer to think of the RF as one of the last vestiges of a supra-national ruling elite, which has been abolished in most reasonable countries and hasn't been here principally because we can't be arsed to think of any alternative.
 
 
No star here laces
10:00 / 30.01.02
True, but the german thing was a nice counterpoint to rupert murdoch, is all...
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
10:11 / 30.01.02
Except Rupe ain't Australian anymore. Hasn't been since 1985. Mind you, he hasn't been human since 1955, so I guess it doesn't really matter. quote:An excellent example of a well-known public figure who is publicly known to utilize tax havens to his advantage is Rupert Murdoch. In 1985, media magnate Rupert Murdoch renounced his Australian citizenship and became a US citizen and so was able to comply with the US law that prohibits foreign ownership of television stations. This very wise business move helped Mr. Murdoch build a global entertainment empire that includes among its many subsidiaries the 20th Century Fox studios. Mr. Murdoch's company, News Corp., earns most of its revenue from US subsidiaries, but through the use of international tax havens, Mr. Murdoch has paid corporate income taxes of one-fifth the rate of his US competitors during the 1990s. US authorities do in no way suggest that there is any impropriety in his business strategies. News Corp. has remained incorporated in Australia in spite of Mr. Murdoch's taking on US citizenship. News Corp. has mastered the use of the offshore tax haven in its many international transactions. The company reduces its annual tax bill by moving profits through multiple subsidiaries in offshore tax havens like the Cayman Islands. For example, the overseas profits from movies made by 20th Century Fox, go into a News Corp. subsidiary in the Caymans, where they are not taxed, according to one insider familiar with the transactions. Mr. Murdoch has taken advantage of the differing tax regimes around the globe and so has been able to make sure his companies keep more of what they earn. Mr. Murdoch provides an excellent example of the proper use of tax havens in business strategy for all to follow.(from here)
 
 
Fra Dolcino
14:07 / 30.01.02
quote:Originally posted by The resistable rise of Reidcourchie:
[QB]Can you buy an erect phallus in a bar before 11pm? [QB]


Yeah, but I leave at 11 on the dot.

 
 
The resistable rise of Reidcourchie
15:40 / 30.01.02
That gives us at least 4 hours babe.
 
 
grant
18:12 / 30.01.02
Well, I'll not try to take in the whole US - that seems like a fair handicap. Just my home state.

Let's put aside the governor's daughter's arrest yesterday for prescription fraud. And the widespread allegations that Jeb "delivered Florida" for his brother's election by keeping black folks from getting to the polls on time with a series of illegal roadblocks and searches.

Let's talk Krome Detention Center.
Gov't says to immigrant, well, we can't quite deport you, and we can't let you stay in the country, so we'll just jail you indefinitely. In the Everglades.

Where, well, to quote the article (dated October 16, 2000): quote:> The Immigration and Naturalization Service is considering the
> removal of all women from the Krome Detention Center -- the result
> of allegations that female detainees repeatedly have been sexually
> assaulted by officers there.
>
> ``We're looking at it as an option, and I'll leave it at that,''
> Maria Elena Garcia, an INS spokeswoman in Miami, said Monday. But
> she declined to provide details, saying the INS is still finishing
> its comprehensive plan to overhaul Krome, a detention facility in
> west Miami-Dade County.
>
> Garcia's acknowledgement that the INS might move women from Krome
> is one of several options under consideration in the aftermath of
> allegations of widespread corruption and sexual abuse. A team of
> Justice Department and other federal investigators has been
> probing conditions at Krome for months. Already, federal
> prosecutors have indicted one detention officer and a fleet
> dispatcher.
>
> But sources familiar with the investigation said more arrests,
> indictments and other disciplinary actions are likely to come
> soon.
>
> Cheryl Little, a prominent Miami immigration attorney who has been
> pushing for reform for more than 10 years, welcomed the possible
> removal of the women.
>
> ``I'm encouraged that they are considering removing the women, but
> the real question is where are they moving them to?'' Little
> wondered. ``They should not be moved to a facility where they
> don't have adequate access to attorneys or families or where INS
> officials remain in charge.''
The warden - er, chief administrator - retired shortly before the allegations came to light.

Let's talk about the political gifts of the Fanjul family, familiarly known as "Big Sugar".

quote:Last October, when the Clinton campaign faced criticism from the GOP over contributions from the Indonesian Riady family, it tried to turn the tables by pointing to the vice chairman of Dole's campaign finance committee: Cuban-born sugar magnate José Fanjul of Palm Beach, Fla. Fanjul recently applied for U.S. citizenship, but his status as a legal resident makes him ineligible to vote. He and his family compensate with staggering contributions to Republicans -- and Democrats. Brother Alfonso even earned an invitation to a Clinton kaffeeklatsche attended by fundraiser Terry McAuliffe, among others.

The Fanjuls' total giving has been consistently underreported because they give through an array of family members, companies, executives, and PACs. During the 1995-96 election cycle, members of the Fanjul family contributed $774,500 to federal campaigns. This total includes $135,500 in PAC money, $141,000 to candidates, and $498,000 in soft money from companies owned or controlled by the Fanjuls (see below). Add in $128,080 from the Fanjuls' closest advisers and senior executives and the Fanjuls' generosity totals $902,580.

It's an excellent investment. In return, a grateful Congress maintains a sugar price support program worth approximately $65 million annually to the Fanjuls.
It's not just fiscal, by the way - the Fanjuls (and friends in business and government) are actually destroying the state.
I mean that literally; they are poisoning and filling in the Everglades, the freshwater runoff from which nurtures the coral reefs which insulate Florida from the open ocean; the reefs have been steadily dying for decades, and the state is actually eroding away into the Gulf Stream as a result.
But that's OK, we'll all run out of drinking water (due to the depleted aquifer) first.
%Clean-up efforts are ongoing, you know. Very effective they are, too.%

And, of course, the Trail of Tears started here. After pushing defeated Indian tribes into the swamps (forging the Seminole nation - from the Spanish "cimarron," or "runaway"), President Jackson (veteran of the First Seminole War) decided to move them all across the country to dusty Oklahoma. At gunpoint.
Bear in mind that at this point in Florida history, the Everglades were so wealthy in mosquitoes, the mass of their bodies routinely choked cattle to death, and could extinguish a kerosene lantern in five minutes. That's why the Seminoles are the only Native American group whose traditional garb consists of long sleeves and leggings, despite it being one of the hottest, most humid states in the country.
From further down that page, on the Second Seminole War, waged when some resisters refused to go to Oklahoma:
quote:The Second Seminole War (1835-42) was the most fierce and costly war in America's history up to that time. Two hundred thousand soldiers fought, at a cost of over $20 million. The war began when some Seminole Indians refused to leave Florida, defying the Removal Act. They also gave refuge to runaway slaves from Georgia, and the slave owners and plantation framers demanded immediate retribution. The American army committed several atrocities, including hunting Indians with bloodhounds (depicted here), and the capture of the Seminole warrior Osceola, (sometimes called Aseola) while under a flag of truce. The war lasted for more than seven years without ever coming close to a victory on either side, and eventually American troops withdrew. No peace treaty was signed.
The hunting of aboriginal people with bloodhounds may ring a few bells to our Australian friends.

Then, there's Rosewood. Don't look for the town on the maps... the white folks burned it to the ground. Along with quite a few of the people living in it at the time.
Highlights:
quote:01/05/23 Approximately 200-300 whites from surrounding areas
begin to converge on Rosewood.

Mingo Williams is murdered.

Governor Cary Hardee is notified, and Sheriff Walker
reports that he fears "no further disorder."

The Sheriff of Alachua County arrives in Rosewood to
assist Sheriff Walker.

James Carrier is murdered.

01/06/23 A train evacuates refugees to Gainesville.

01/07/23 A mob of 100-150 whites return to Rosewood and burn the
remaining structures.

01/17/23 A black man in Newberry is convicted of stealing cattle.
He is removed from his cell and lynched by local whites.

02/11/23 A Grand Jury convenes in Bronson to investigate the
Rosewood riot.

02/15/23 The Grand Jury finds "insufficient evidence" to prosecute.


The legislature recently introduced a bill to pay back the descendents of the survivors of the massacre, plus there was a John Singleton movie (with Ving Rhames and Jon Voigt!), so of course, it's all OK now.

And one other thing comes to mind - although we're getting close to the never-quite-proved JFK conspiracy stuff, this is 100% accepted fact - during the 1960s, Florida played host to the single largest (totally illegal) domestic CIA operation. Possibly the *only* domestic CIA operation. Headquartered at Opa-Locka Airport in Dade County, to keep tabs on Castro and Castro-sympathizers in the US. Some theorists draw links between this operation, bitter Bay of Pigs veterans, and the assassination of John F Kennedy, but no conclusive proof has ever been found.
Nonetheless, nobody can deny there was a Florida CIA operation starting in the Eisenhower administration and lasting for many years.

Which is against the law, you know.

This article points out that George Bush Sr. was working for the Florida CIA office during that period.
Although it's nominally about possible CIA involvement in Election 2000.
Which all centered here.

In Florida.


We gave you W.

[ 30-01-2002: Message edited by: grant ]

[ 30-01-2002: Message edited by: grant ]
 
 
MJ-12
18:43 / 30.01.02
quote:Originally posted by Johnny the Zen bastard:

Japanese internment camps ("You're japanese? You're probably working with the enemy. Get inside, traitor."), an ultra paranoid F.B.I. Director who instated blatantly anti-constitutional Counter Intelligence laws


oddly enough, Hoover was adamantly opposed to interning the Japanese Americans, having stated that they were some of the most patriotic American out there, which in the spirit of this thread leads us to...

My country gets so rabid when it feels threatened that a paranoid control freak can seem like the voice of reason in comparison to the general population.
 
 
Slim
23:47 / 30.01.02
grant forgot to mention 'Ol Sparky, Florida's slightly defective electric chair. Look it up on the internet. Someone being electrocuted till their nipples bleed? Hilarious!

Anyways, I'd like to point out that the US has a severe handicap in that it has only been around for two and a half centuries. England/Britain has been around for much much longer. Even the time frame and it's probably a tie.
 
 
Jackie Susann
01:23 / 31.01.02
australia is falling behind so i will just say: maralinga. 1950s, australian outback, nuclear weapons tests. apart from giving cancer to hundreds of soliders + people in surrounding areas, and covering it up, nobody knows how many indigenous people were killed in the tests because they were classified as fauna at the time. cancer is still a huge killer for people living around that area.
 
 
the Fool
03:28 / 31.01.02
But wasn't maralinga another British gem? Or at least under the big hat of the Commonwealth? The Australian government was probably just doing as it was told by its superiors... like it normally does.

Though I guess that's my gripe with the AUS governments in all shapes and sizes. They do as they are told, and tow the lines they are told to tow.

And then the government pretends these other governments are its friends... sad.

I think that's why I feel our government is worse than the others. Its complicit, and stupid. It aspires to evil but quite frankly doesn't have the brains for it.
 
 
Baz Auckland
11:52 / 31.01.02
A mere shadow to the evils of the USA et al. but the lovely Ontario government in the last seven years has been responsible for:

Having us rated the 3rd worst polluter in North America, Killing 7 people and getting 2300 ill over tainted water, gutting 75% of the Ministry of the Environment's budget..

Killing an unarmed native protester when violently breaking up a peaceful protest...

Cutting welfare by 22%, deregulating tuition, Increasing homelessness tenfold, and overall being smug 'we're-cutting-taxes-for-you!' bastards about it.

Bastards. I'm out of here.
 
 
grant
12:35 / 31.01.02
Thanks for the reminder about Ol' Sparky.
quote:Jones' attorneys are focusing on the Medina execution, during which flames shot out from behind his face mask. Witnesses testified that his body jolted for several minutes after the electricity was turned off.

A faulty sponge and headpiece were blamed. It was the second botched execution in the 74-year-old chair since 1990.

By the way, the state Supreme Court ruled that the chair wasn't cruel and unusual.And shit like this (condemned men found innocent) happens pretty regularly here. Does that story mention the condemned guy was mentally retarded? It should.
(Of course, Gubbna Jeb wrote up a law so that don't happen no more. Maybe.)

Nuclear testing, though. Hmm. That's a tough one to beat.

Apparently on October 11, 1957 a nuclear bomber crashed here and caught fire, but that's not like setting the damn things off intentionally.

(This is a *great* game, by the way.)

[ 31-01-2002: Message edited by: grant ]
 
 
MJ-12
12:50 / 31.01.02
quote: Nuclear testing, though. Hmm. That's a tough one to beat.

Nah, that's pretty much a constant. The Soviets used to set off H-Bombs & pour troops into the area w/out protective gear to see how the immediate aftereffects would impact their effectiveness.

And, of course, we used to just pop them off then send people driving after the radioactive clouds, to see if they should notify anyone downwind that there might, maybe, kinda sorta could be a good reason to, not evacuate, but stay indoors and maybe take a shower later.
 
 
Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero
13:41 / 31.01.02
quote:Originally posted by Barry Auckland:
A mere shadow to the evils of the USA et al. but the lovely Ontario government in the last seven years has been responsible for:

Having us rated the 3rd worst polluter in North America, Killing 7 people and getting 2300 ill over tainted water, gutting 75% of the Ministry of the Environment's budget..

Killing an unarmed native protester when violently breaking up a peaceful protest...

Cutting welfare by 22%, deregulating tuition, Increasing homelessness tenfold, and overall being smug 'we're-cutting-taxes-for-you!' bastards about it.

Bastards. I'm out of here.


C'mon, there's no way you're going to convince anyone that Canada is going to win this game.

So Detroit is trying to get a Living Wage law into place, right? It's this deal where the city thinks if you work forty hours a week, doing whatever, then you should be able to live off it. It's like minimum wage. Detroit can do it, too. We've got one of the highest salaries compared to cost of living in the country. It would work.

But all around the mid-west, people calling themselves conservatives are trying to get the federal government to shut it down and make it illegal to try this anywhere in the country. Why? Because the local buisnessmen, who contribute to the politicians, don't want to have to spend the extra money. Which is short-sighted greed overriding long-term buisness success. Even Henry Ford, an avid anti-semite and all around ass who killed to push down labor unions, paid his workers enough to at least buy a Ford. Because he knew if he paid them at least that much, he'd be getting a lot of that money back. Greedy bastards.

How about California's treatment of Chinese immigrants way back in the day? There are statements ON RECORD of California governors telling people that the Chinese do not have souls and therefore do not qualify as human.

Darryl Hammond of Saturday Night Live came to my campus once and he made this point:

I love living in a country where our President gets into trouble James Bond couldn't get out of. Clinton got caught lying, on camera. But not just on camera...on every camera. In the world.

You have to admit, no matter where you're from, the entire world laughed at us for that one. Whether because we made such a huge deal about our nation's leader's infedelity or him debating the meaning of the word "is".

And the hilariously inept CIA (motto: "trying to overthrow Castro since 1967"). And do you know how the embargo on Cuba began? You know, the one that eventually crippled it? It was long before communism had anything to do with it. We wanted to put military bases on Cuba, but they wouldn't let us. So we made it illegal to trade with them. And it's still in place. Just because they didn't want to become the U.S.'s bitch.
 
 
The resistable rise of Reidcourchie
14:49 / 31.01.02
Originally posted by Slim

"Anyways, I'd like to point out that the US has a severe handicap in that it has only been around for two and a half centuries. England/Britain has been around for much much longer. Even the time frame and it's probably a tie."

Nice try junior but don't forget we made you. We put you where you are today and we can put you back again.

Not to mention we've had our own Vietnam's Malaysia, Rhodesia. Nasty little police actions where the atrocities comitted can be tried as war crimes because hey they where police actions, speaking of South East asia and both the SAS and the paras involvement in the American part of war (plus the ever present British mercenaries), how about post war stabbing our allies in the back and releasing Japanese POWs to hunt down Communists. Oh and was that the SAS training the Khymer Rouge.

Or further back our very prominent role in the crusades, still paying dividends today, hows that for shelf life?

Or the fact that we have few of the rights guaranteed Americans in the constituition . No right to privacy and COINTElPROs are legal.

Originally posted by Flyboy

"Yeah, I'm with reid - once you bring history into it, in terms of fucking over the people of other countries, the English are hard to beat..."

oddly as Fly was agreeing with me, I'm going to have to disagree with him, being a Scot and all. Yes we like to paint ourselves as victims of English oppression and it's not completely without justification but it was a British Empire and just ask the indigenous peoples of Canada and Africa about us. (incidently any of my friends reading this are to discount these comments during our next aren't the English a bunch of wankers argument).

I'd like to congratulate Grant fo a very well substantiated entry for a mere state. Florida ladies and gentleman punching well above it's weight and that's without mentioning Limp Bizkit.

The Brits are the villains of the world, Alan Rickman's career show us that.

[ 31-01-2002: Message edited by: The resistable rise of Reidcourchie ]
 
 
Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero
09:37 / 01.02.02
quote:Originally posted by The resistable rise of Reidcourchie:
Originally posted by Slim

"Anyways, I'd like to point out that the US has a severe handicap in that it has only been around for two and a half centuries. England/Britain has been around for much much longer. Even the time frame and it's probably a tie."

Nice try junior but don't forget we made you. We put you where you are today and we can put you back again.
[ 31-01-2002: Message edited by: The resistable rise of Reidcourchie ]


What the hell are you talking about? I realize this is against the rules, but Britain lost all right to say that after the war of 1812, where Britain couldn't manage to win the war despite the fact that the only battle the U.S. ever won was after the war was over. Hell, half of 'em the U.S. army gave up without even seeing the enemy.

...oh wait, that was probably sarcasm. Dammit.

Ah, here's one: My country won it's independence in a decisive victory where the army (such as it was) killed a bunch of drunk Germans who were asleep anyway. On Christmas, no less.

Then there's Pearl Harbor, which we knew about and let happen anyway. Sure, you can cite political reasons but c'mon, it was a dirty thing to do.

We have someone who put 130 men to death LEADING OUR COUNTRY. Plus, he a goon. Look at him, for christ's sake. You know something bad's gonna happen before he leaves.

Truman dropped an atomic bomb on Hiroshima. Which is slighty understandable when you factor in that we wanted the japanese to surrender before the Russians got to them. Then he dropped another one a week later despite not having what political scientists call a "reason". Also, we came up with McCarthy. Vietnam! 56,000 people died, the average age being 19! "The war is almost over! The body count of the North Vietnemese is too high for them to go on!"...and the war goes on for another four or five years.

Alabama testing syphilis on a black community without telling them. Killed nearly 200 random townspeople, including women and children.

The F.B.I. sending a man they knew to be innocent to jail for 25 years. They had the evidence sitting around for a decade and a half, meanwhile a man with a family is in a maximum security prison. When called on it, the officers in charge of the arrest said "What do you want, tears?" (that is his actual quote). No legal action was taken against the officers.

By god, I think the U.S. can win this one.
 
 
gentleman loser
09:37 / 01.02.02
quote:Originally posted by MJ-12:


oddly enough, Hoover was adamantly opposed to interning the Japanese Americans, having stated that they were some of the most patriotic American out there, which in the spirit of this thread leads us to...


Maybe a tad off topic, but I always found it a brutal irony that the most decorated U.S. military units in WW II and U.S. history (100th Nisei and 442nd Regimental Combat Team - over 18,000 decorations, 9,500 Purple Hearts, 4,000 Bronze Stars, 560 Silver Stars and 21 Congressional Medals of Honor) was composed of Japanese American volunteers, many who came right out of the internment camps.

[ 01-02-2002: Message edited by: gentleman loser ]
 
  

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