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Writing the horoscope.

The Return Of Rothkoid

13:47 / 15.08.03

OK. This is a bit of a rambler, as I've just come in from a big night. But I was wondering how people feel here about the idea of writing one's future - the idea behind Morrison coding himself into the Invisibles, say (or perhaps Bowie writing the Ziggy Stardust persona's eventual demise? Dunno.)

But what I was wondering was this: how much does someone's writing a horoscope dictate what happens to individuals that read it/believe it. I ask this because I was working on horoscopes today at work. I know that some publications make no pretense about getting astrologers to do them at all - subs just make them up - but I today was tidying up stuff that our astrologer had sent - making it fit and that sort of thing. How much does editing change the effect of what's written, do you think? Is there a sort of "written in the stars" thing that is unchangeable, or does the act of writing, of rewriting, serve as a kind of sigil? I mean, I write these things (rewrite, actually) and then they're forgotten as I work on so many pages through the week - would anyone say that it's a form of narrative magick in itself? Does the editing of horoscopes (or books on tarot, or whatever - you get the picture) manifest change in the life of those who believe it?

14:14 / 15.08.03

I've been discussing fortune-telling lately (specifically tarot, but it still applies). I would be very wary of telling someone what the future holds for them as:

1. If it's something bad then they will worry. I've been on the receiving end and even if you don't really believe it, it still sits there in the back of your mind.

2. If it's something good then they may just sit around waiting for it to happen, rather than do what is needed to *make* it happen.

Either way, it gives them an excuse to not take responsibility for their life.

Ziggy/Invisibles/Hypersigils are someone describing their own change. That's very different from letting some stranger do it.

I don't think you can reliably predict the future (or there'd be lots of rich happy mages (or maybe rich happy people ARE mages and aren't letting us in on it)) but I do think you can predict possible cause and effect. Or at least help someone to predict/admit their own possible cause and effect.

14:15 / 15.08.03

Hmm. Gotta say not, newspaper horoscopes are inneffectual to start with (as you say, the subeditors do them). I think the rewriting diminishes the accuracy and therefore the value of a horoscope if it's genuine, or messes up a mess (and so has no effect) if it isn't.

14:29 / 15.08.03

I eavesdropped on a gypsy lady selling heather to suckers the other day, and she was definitely a charlatan. How do I know? The conversation went like this-
Gypsy- Be lucky, love
Punter- Umm..
G- You don't want to be Unlucky, do you?
P- well...(hesitating)
G (moving in)- only a pound, are you married?
P-yes
G-any problems with your marriage?
P-No
G-well, money's the main thing, any money worries?
P-No
G-well it's family that's the main thing, have you got a mum?
P-No
G-Oh that's a shame, how's your dad?
P-Not very well actually..
G-oh, I knew something was wrong, this heather will be lucky for your poor Dad.....

Scary. Her questions were quick as a flash, like a salesman's flow chart, until she got the punters vulnerable underbelly. She's what charlatans call 'Openeyes', those who don't believe their own bullshit. Interestingly she approached me just before this, and our conversation went (her)"Be lucky love?" (Me)"No." then she went away.

I don't think editing and tidying will affect a fortune that much, the meaning is what counts (and I assume you're a good editor and leave the meaning). The power of a horoscope isn't derived from sigilisation or similar, so minor textual changes shouldn't affect it much- the message is not the magick.

(PS congratulations and well done on having an actual astrologer!)

21:05 / 18.08.03

Rothkoid - What were your intentions when rewriting these horoscopes? If you were just considering the layout and text and borders and spelling then I don't think that you could have an impact on, say the entire Gemini population.

Intent, whether concious or unconcious, is an important factor in my opinion. Put in the same situation I would be more interested to find out my reaction to writing my own horoscope. Maybe I would be tempted to selectively edit out any bad bits or introduce elements that would be welcome in my life. My point is, it would then hold significance for me and my intention would be to affect my future. Even thinking about and recognising which horoscope I would like to read for myself would have some effect on the way I act right now.

You can't expect to have an effect if you don't believe.

[tangent]I don't know how astrologers think they can make general horoscopes for massive numbers of people anyway. It's not like a face to face, personalised reading where part of the skill is in recognising which aspects are relavent and following them up.[/tangent]