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Underground > Radio & Music >

Racism in the Rock Press, part 10001

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13:44 / 11.08.03

I think intent matters. For all we know, the reviewer could have been riffing on R Kelly's own gorilla thing. or he could have been slyly noting R Kelly's troubles with underaged girls. Or he could think R Kelly looks like a gorilla for reasons that have nothing to do with race. Or he could wear bedsheets and burn crosses.

But none of us fucking know, do we? Until we do, the accusations and hand-wringing are little more than pious middle class wankery. Aren't there some real problems out there we can worry about?

13:46 / 11.08.03

Perhaps the racists here are the ones who are insisting there's only one thing the author could have intended?

I did wonder... if one accepts that it could be possible that the writer is ignorant of the known comparison between "black" and "gorilla-like", then saying that it's obvious that the words "shouldn't be uttered in the same breath" implies belief in the existence of similarities which would justify the comparison. Besides, as keeps being pointed out, no-one said such a thing; R. Kelly was compared to a gorilla, not the entire black race. If Liam Gallagher sung about how time spent in bed with his girl is "like two gorillas in the jungle", I'd be rather inclined to suggest that it's a pretty literal simile.

... And yes, it is possible to be completely ignorant of the existence of such comparisons; I'm originally from the absolute middle of nowhere and had never heard "wog=ape jokes"... 'tis, perhaps, incredibly sheltered, but I can't imagine any reason why I should be blamed for my ignorance.

Old brown-eye is back

14:09 / 11.08.03

Obviously intent matters. The problem here is that whatever he means he's used some very loaded images in a careless - reckless even - way in order to get his point across. (Maybe if he could write worth a shit, somebody would actually be able to figure out what he means once and for all.)

"Pious middle class wankery..." Welcome to Barbelith.

The Natural Way

14:13 / 11.08.03

Arrgh, fuck, I wasn't blaming you! I just said people who weren't aware of those kind of comparisons were probably in a minority. My view is best expressed by Shapeshifter's post, where he postulates that the author of the article probably WAS aware that such comparisons are potentially offensive, but believed that his/her readership would understand that (s)he wasn't comparing blacks to gorillas, just R Kelly to a gorilla....etc.

I think this is far more likely. And not a conclusion that's difficult to reach. Slightly more complicated than racist/not racist, but there you go.

15:11 / 11.08.03

I wasn't blaming you!

Sorry... In didn't mean to suggest that anyone was blaming me, and indeed assumed that no-one would think any different of me for having not heard such jokes. I just intended to highlight the fact that some people seem to imply that, if the fault indeed is due to the reviewer's being ignorant, ze should be blamed for zir ignorance.

16:08 / 11.08.03

Full transcript of review (written by Christian Ward, NME, 9 August 2003):

'R KELLY

Snake (Remix) (Jive)

Master of metaphor R Kelly follows up his meditation on the whole girl/car, key/cock notion with this profound investigation into that 'girl-as-snake' thing. You can see what he means: you're trying to piss on a lass, and she's just wriggling around, it's rubbish. The genius moment arrives when he compares his bedroom shenanigans to "two gorillas in a jungle, making love", which, you have to say, is probably the most literal simile ever.

Looking at a selection of his other reviews (which are all singles reviews around the 80-word mark) all appear to be negative, usually on the most tenuous or tedious grounds (Busted for being a 'Pretty Boy Pretend "Rock" Band'; Winnebago Deal for being simultaneously angry and from Oxford - the two obviously being mutually exclusive). More pertinently (considering the race factor) his review of De La Soul implies that he was disappointed by a mediocre return from a once-talented band (whose B-side now sounds like George Benson, god forbid).

So, while I'm not suggesting that an appreciator of De La Soul would be incapable of a racist remark, the context and content of the review seems to suggest that Mr Ward believes R Kelly and R Kelly's sexual performance, attitude and style specifically, to be similar to that of a gorilla, rather than his colour or race in general.

I tend to agree with above comments that suggest this is more of a combination of limited space, poor writing and a shocking display of naivety from a young writer trying to make his mark in the usual manner. The editorial staff should have picked it up and forced a rewrite.

Our Lady of The Two Towers

17:24 / 11.08.03

Hopefully we can put this thread to bed now, but if not then I suggest only people who, like Flyboy obviously, have never said or written anything which they considered totally innocent but which later they or someone else pointed out was racist, sexist, classist, homo or transphobic (I think that about covers it), should be allowed to continue this conversation.

Tryphena Absent

07:32 / 12.08.03

Let's put Flowers and Flyboy in to the Purity Arena. Fight to the death! I place 10 quid on Flowers- bitchier and more space in those skirts to hide weapons! (Is this too threadrot?)

No star here laces

07:35 / 12.08.03

Well I have been accidentally racist in my time, but know lots of real genuine black and gay people, so can i stay?

08:36 / 12.08.03

This is the kind of conversation that makes me love and hate Barbelith at the same time.

Jack The Bodiless

11:25 / 12.08.03

Delightful misunderstandings, meditation on wordplay, cross-dressing cockfights*, people falling madly in love with each other, falling out again, falling back in love again, mildly 'special' broad strokes of comedy... it's just like one of Shakespeare's comedies.

*due to the stipulation for the Flowers/Flyboy Purity Arena Challenge at Summerslam being an evening gown match, naturally...

Old brown-eye is back

12:17 / 12.08.03

Mmmmmmm, stipulation.

18:37 / 12.08.03

Shall I compare the to a summer's day?
Though art lovely yet intemperate;
Thy threads do rot, and people hot
Under collar become, when words do grate.
Shall I tear down thine NME?
I feel I shall for its misdeeds;
And yet despite the row 'bout it, I see;
It's something none admits they reads.
Shall I point out this thread is lost?
And all within are out of luck?
And this pure sonnet marks its cost;
But sonnets do not rhyme like this.
Oh fuck.

Right, I'm bard now...

ONLY NICE THINGS

22:46 / 12.08.03

Jesus God....they are called iambic pentameters for a reason, you know.

16:35 / 14.08.03

[rot]Many thanks, Haus old boy. I am too stupid to understand iambic pentameter, even when writing a pisstake in a minute, so I just try to keep my poetry close to the rhythms of natural speech instead.

I wish I was all grown up like you, and could speak Latin, and use big words like trope and qua.
[/rot]

Just out of interest - and to raise the thread from the dead - has anyone who was offended by the review written in to NME to complain about it? I'd say that getting published in their letters pages, or at least read by their writers, is far more likely to change the sitution than by just posting here.

Lets have some NVDA, eh?

17:18 / 14.08.03

i fucking HATE nme. what they're saying is the most irrelevant shit out there right now.

PS notmeagain: a couple of years ago when i read the rag, i hit them a note telling them to not be scared to print the word CUNT and stop going off saying it's an ANTI-FEMINIST word, like they really gave a fuck! i even told them to read some INGA MUSCIO to educate their stupid asses. they printed it but everytime i wrote CUNT they censored it.

PS2 i fucking HATE nme.

17:22 / 14.08.03

They did start printing it for a short while, if I remmeber rightly - but then they stopped.

Cunts.

ONLY NICE THINGS

22:00 / 14.08.03

[rot]Actually, trope and qua are quite small words.[/rot]

No star here laces

08:13 / 15.08.03

[rot]I think that was the point of the joke, haus[/rot]

Jack The Bodiless

10:41 / 15.08.03

[rot] I think it's quite unlikely there was any point to the joke... [/rot]

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