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The role of fear in magickal workings

The Knights Templar Boogie Machine

02:02 / 03.08.03

Writers such as christopher s. hyatt and kenneth grant propose systems of magick where fear is an integral part of the gnosis to be gained from working with that authors system. Obviously, there is a need to feel emotions that tell the practitioner that his/hers magickal work is valid and not just whimsical meanderings;100% comfort is not a sign that your system of magick is worthwhile..But where do you draw the line? Is there a point where self development along these lines can become self destruction? I'd be interested to know what fellow barbeloids think and what their experiences have been with such systems - are they worthwhile or a waste of time?

Note: I do not agree/disagree with these systems, i am just interested
to see what peoples experiences have been with them.

03:47 / 03.08.03

I like to have a level of discomfort just enough to see the things that may need to be changed and quite shy of paralyzing me with fear. The actual level of this discomfort changes from time to time. I personally get very little out of fear per se.

Shanghai Quasar

09:03 / 03.08.03

Fear could be seen as a key element to a working in certain instances, following with the old Dark Side mantra (Fear leads to Anger, Anger leads to Hate). Spontaneous banishings, spirit devouring, and so on.

It strikes me as very immediate, a bludgeon, as opposed to patient and thought out workings that tend to accomplish more in the long term.

13:14 / 03.08.03

My take on this is that anyone working full-on magic on a regular basis - to the point where the magic takes over and it starts working them - will tend to get led through a range of experiences that are essential to their own development. This will often include a process of facing and integrating fear and 'the other', to the same extent that it might include a process of learning how to love and enjoy stuff. I don't think you neccesarily have to go out looking for that sort of material as it'll likely find you soon enough, and more likely at the most appropriate and effective moment.

I can see why a magician may want to actively explore these territories - but too many scary biscuits are probably as bad for you as too much cloying white light disney magic.

13:34 / 03.08.03

Shanghai Quasar:
It strikes me as very immediate, a bludgeon, as opposed to patient and thought out workings that tend to accomplish more in the long term.

Fear is fanatastic for immediate effects. Although I have to agree with you, It is probably most effective if used as a keystone with other well-thought out, longer term processes and/or practices.

Fear is a great gauge for transcendental work or in some pratices like chod, in overcoming it (transcending death, essentially). However, fear also good for setting healthy limits and should not be reviled as something for the weak - which, these days it seems to be.

15:31 / 03.08.03

It's kinda hard to do magick when you've just shat your pants.

Uhm..and by that I mean:

What do you mean by "using fear in magick"? Like achieving fright to reach gnosis? But couldn't that reverse the desire of the sigil? Becoming afraid of a wish?

17:17 / 03.08.03

Heavy Neon Genesis Evangelion and Invisibles Spoilage. You have been warned...

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On the back of Gypsy Lantern's post:

In Neon Genesis Evangelion, Hideaki Anno makes many references to the A.T. Field (Absolute Terror Field), a term cribbed from the psychological understanding of autism. It's a name for the safe perimeter that the autistic person believes there to be around them, which when breached provokes feelings of agitation and fear. Anno's use of the term encompasses the entire physical and mental form of any individual, held together by the fear of dissolution or harm by an outside influence. Throughout the series and the final movie it's hypothesised that the A.T. Field will be outgrown in our next evolutionary step, its purpose having been transcended when humanity ceases to be individuated.

This is very much akin to Morrison's musings on the Supercontext, a state into which humanity will evolve when it realises itself as one single structure when percieved from outside linear time. Both narratives use the idea of *alien* intruders throughout, and in both it is shown that these *aliens* are exactly the same beings as ourselves. It was phrased most succinctly in the Invisibles - the *alien other* being whatever you leave outside when you're desinging the box labelled *you.* In both series the threat is assimilated, which leads on to the assimilation of the whole of humanity into the next evolutionary stage.

I've had experiences in my personal practice that back up much of this material, and I'm fairly comfortable with including many of the ideas in my personal cosmology. The interior of the A.T. Field is a kind of mirror, through which any intrusion is distorted by our panicked and violated selves until it resembles the Outer Church: we have projected our own threat onto it. The understanding of self and the manipulation of this field is not only central to any individual's practise, but also to the development of the entire race. Becoming familiar with the circle of fear at one's perimeter is key.

That probably sounded like a rambling load of old bollocks, and could do with some help from others filling in the blanks. Something about it feels right to me.

21:39 / 03.08.03

Lionheart:
"What do you mean by "using fear in magick"? Like achieving fright to reach gnosis? But couldn't that reverse the desire of the sigil? Becoming afraid of a wish?"

Maybe "shock" is a better word than "fear", in some cases at least.

Also, magick is not all wish-granting, as I am sure you already know. Using magick for evolutionary or transformative purposes can often involve facing one's fears. In that situation, the fear thing is entirely relevant as it is catalyst for change.

Although, some may say that is a wish of sorts.

06:36 / 04.08.03

I dunno about using fear as such ie. rollercoaster riding to charge a sigil, but fear as part of the process is, I think, something that's always going to come up. The idea that magick works is fundamentally scary, because it's a step outside of the reality we're accustomed to. What if it works? What if it goes wrong? What if I'm going mad? - are all some of the thoughts that might come up and scare the shit out of you, I guess. Looking in the mirror is scary because there's always the possibility you might not like what you see.

I remember talking to my mum about stuff like this a few years ago, she felt that there might well be something in but had that gut reaction that a lot of people have - don't dabble because you don't know what will come up. Even iif you look at Freudian psychotherapy, seems to involve a tremendous amount of fear - why are all those childhood feelings and memories repressed in the first place?

To follow Set's post even a random tarot card turning up - as a sign from outside of "yourself" - could be something that puts the terror into you.

Tryphena Absent

08:32 / 04.08.03

I went through a period about five years ago when I started dealing with that group of Goddesses I like to call the Big Scaries. I ritually invoked a whole series of very frightening deities and the one who really made me feel that ritualistic fear, that inrush of power that is absolutely fucking terrifying the first time it happens, was Kali. It wasn't that she was bad but I felt absolutely overwhelmed by her presence and had to stop the ritual dead and dismiss it five minutes in. Over time I built up an awareness of how to deal with something so big and dark. If you don't feel the fear at some point during this kind of work than I'm not sure you're taking it on board... magic should spurn fear, it could eat you up but it's also something to work through.

11:40 / 04.08.03

The interior of the A.T. Field is a kind of mirror, through which any intrusion is distorted by our panicked and violated selves until it resembles the Outer Church: we have projected our own threat onto it Set
The Things From Beyond (best illustrated by Lovecraftian horrors) seem to come from beyond this boundary (I hesitate to call it the absolute terror field), beyond our comfortable understanding.
This safe perimeter varies wildly from person to person, and in a sense rather than outgrowing it we should be aiming to expand it to encompass everything, so there is nothing outside the boundary. Same as outgrowing it I guess, but subtly different as it encompasses the notion of inclusion as a gradual process toward transcendance and the cessation of individuation. What I mean is rather than an evolutionary *leap* we can slowly move toward that aim by expanding the boundary.
Fear? I laugh in it's hidously tentacular drooling face...

Shanghai Quasar

21:32 / 04.08.03

My ego tells me becoming one with the whole and giving up individuality is a frightening prospect, and since magic tends toward being ego-driven ("This is what 'I' will do") one could argue that magic will invariably prove a detour from the Way of Transcendance, but that's possibly a whole different topic.

Ignoring the value of fear is something of a folly, innit? Fear is a blessing (safety) and a curse (irrational), depending on how it's taken. Humans seem a highly fear-driven species, and magicians don't tend to be much different (unless they're inhuman). Fearing that spirits will run amok when we're done with them, they are banished. Fearing that something won't go our way without a nudge, a sigil is charged up.

Today's word is Rhabdophobia. It is a word with two definitions: fear of being beaten (with rods, sticks) and fear of magic. If Fetch is reading this, I'd love to see an Isisian take on that word.

22:50 / 04.08.03

Fear is the mind killer. I will face my fear and it will pass through me and when it is gone there will be nothing only I will remain. (Paul Artreides/Muad'Dib)

23:14 / 04.08.03

This safe perimeter varies wildly from person to person, and in a sense rather than outgrowing it we should be aiming to expand it to encompass everything, so there is nothing outside the boundary.

That's the impression I get, although I'd also think that as the field 's diameter increases its perimeter wall becomes thinner, disolving as it expands. It's a process, but I definitely feel as the process plays out over time the boundary will lose all cohesion. Once the boundary encompasses everything there's no further need for it, is there?

I'm not 100% on the term A.T. Field either, BTW. It's just convenient shorthand for now. Plus Evangelion fucking rocks a snow leopard's ass.