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Fucked up finances, self help books and sundry matters,,,

09:41 / 30.07.03

Right, I get paid tomorrow and I was going to ask if anyone knew any decent books or websites on personal finance – ie. budgeting and that kind of thing. I would like to finish the month without going even more into debt, which is probably impossible unless I really try to admire the beauty of my wallpaper for hours on end, but an admirable goal nonetheless. Maybe I should just throw all dignity to the wind and buy Alvin Hall’s book or whatever his name is (camp and OTT American black geezer with a show on BBC 2 where he embarrasses members of the public by doing their accounts for them on TV) - so, if you’ve got any recommendations, please let me know and I’ll let you know how I get on.

But this got me to thinking, bookshops are filled to bursting with self-help/improvement books of all sorts, hard-headed NLP in Business books to commercial hippy dippy mass marketing efforts (ie. the 9000 or so variants on “Chicken Soup for the Soul”– have this people really no dignity?) to the full blown mystical (the fucking “Celestine Prophecy” or Paulo De whatisname who wrote “The Alchemist”) I just wondered what people’s reaction to this was – is it just crude marketing playing on our insecurities and continual urge to be different from who we are, or something a bit deeper? Is there any worth in it? And also, if you’ve ever read anything like this, did you get anything out of it? Probably casting my net a bit here and pushing some quite decent literature into a huge generalised net, but I’m sure the brains of Barbleith can disentangle what I’m on about…

09:53 / 30.07.03

I get my dad to give you a call if you like he used to do nothing but moan about my finances, didn't do much help though - my main problem is when I get paid I go a bit mental because of having no money for the last week of the month I feel I need to make up for it which gets you into a spiral but whenever I do manage not to spend anything for the first couple of weeks things seem to be cool.

Dude I loved The Alchemist I think it was due to the time I read it, it fitted in nicely with the mood I was in and everything on the planet seemed connected (maaaaan).

I've got a NLP book but I've never read it - maybe if I did it would sort my life out

10:14 / 30.07.03

If you find out a way to reduce the amount of month left at the end of my money then let me know, you are not alone (must not buy CDs tomorrow, must not buy CDs tomorrow...).

I think self help books are mostly crap, they are dumbed down to the lowest common denominator. Take the Alchemist- nice, but ultimately filled with platitudes- give me the rubaiyat of Omar Kayyam anyday, or Rumi, or...
Or the fucking celestine prophecies, predigested magical pap- it says nothing that hasn't been expressed infinitely more elegantly elsewhere. Maybe it helped open some people's eyes, I don't care- I hated it, and all the flotilla of supplemental explanation books that followed (like the one where he talks about power animals- fight club anyone?).
[/rant]

10:15 / 30.07.03

PS what's NLP?

10:30 / 30.07.03

Neuro Linguistic Programming, a discpline founded by Richard Bandler and John Grinder (I think) which encourages investigation and reframing our internal models - I think that's a reasonable explantion? They'll be a few thread down inna da Magick. It has lots of applications in business and gets viewed as a kind of adjunct to sales training ie. a bit manipulative, but there's more to it than that. I actually met someone through work yesterday who was teaching it to disadvantaged kids to give them an insight into the way that they learned. Which kicked ass.

And Bear, thanks for the offer, but I've got me mum for that

- but on second thought, maybe I need an angry scotsman? How much does he charge?

The Return Of Rothkoid

11:55 / 30.07.03

If you need an incentive for saving, my parents' incessant talking about how you should own property before you turn 30 will do it.

Fat fucking chance.

13:45 / 30.07.03

. Maybe I should just throw all dignity to the wind and buy Alvin Hall’s book or whatever his name is (camp and OTT American black geezer with a show on BBC 2 where he embarrasses members of the public by doing their accounts for them on TV) -

AAh! Fuck! I caught that bastard on TV for about a minute yesterday and instantly wish violence upon him..

How he can actually talk to people like that without getting headbutted or thrown through a window every ten minutes I really don't know..

Sitting there with the smuggest fucking grin imaginable, talking to people reeaallly sloowwlly like they're primary school children, and telling them mindnumbingly fucking obvious, depressing things;
"yoouu've lost. your. job. So you're going to have leeesss monnneeyyy. Sooo, that. means. You're going to have to - yes, you've got it - speeennndd lesss moonneyy!"

Well thanks for pointing that out, Alvin. I'm sure little nuggets of advise like that really transformed that guy's life for the better.

What an absolutely insufferable cunt.

Apologies for massively off-topic ranting.

14:03 / 30.07.03

in the states, suze orman's books self-money-help like the courage to be rich are pretty huge.
but i haven't read them. (shrug.)

14:14 / 30.07.03

Well, Rothkoid, since I’m over 30 and about am more likely to move back into my mum’s than buy property, I think your parents would have me down as a parasite failure. Maybe your head should explode if you turn 30 and don’t have a mortage – kind of like a cross between those horrible house buying programmes and Logan’s Run?

And Riz, I know he’s a twat (“Girlfriend! FIVE pairs of black pants!!” – you think he’s going to start voguing or something) but his book might be alright, or cover the basics at least ie. don’t spend it all you fucking twat). Maybe I should be wise and save by just stealing a copy of his book - how’s that for prudence, Alvin? His programme would actually be one of my “guilty pleasure” – well, not pleasures but but when it comes on I slip into a kind of horrified fugue state and watch it all. Kind of similar to watching a car accident.

PM - The Courage to be Rich? Makes you want to puke doesn't it? I had a look in the bookshop this lunchtime but couldn't find anything that didn't look coma inducing.

14:41 / 30.07.03

Don't spend money on a financial self help book, think about the irony- it's a luxury you don't need. Here's a nutshell version for free, Alvin style;

"Do YOU want to be rich? Say it with me, "I want to be RICH!" Say that out loud to yourself twenty times a day, and you'll see those pounds fly into your pockets like pigeons coming home to roost. Ask yourself, do you really NEED those pants? Do you HAVE to go out drinking? Wouldn't it be better to have that satisfying feeling at the end of the month that you were working your way toward wealth instead of diving into debt? YOU ONLY HAVE YOURSELF TO BLAME GIRLFRIEND! Ditch those naughty spending habits (here's a model of a house to illustrate the point, isn't it just adorable?) and soon you'll find your Mom moving into your house!!! So don't delay, become a miser today!"

Fucking patronising git.

Bleeurgh. Fucking bastard taxman bastard thieving fuckmonkey, I accidentally looked at my wageslip before tax today, bastard sons of bitches where does all this money go?! How can I avoid paying it? Why can't I accept reduced services for reduced cost? Tax the rich, not me! Bastard thieving fuckmonkey taxman, grr, argh. That would solve my monetary problems, stop paying tax...

14:46 / 30.07.03

the 9000 or so variants on “Chicken Soup for the Soul”

I think there's a Chicken Soup book for just about everybody. But there isn't, so far as I know, a Chicken Soup for the Vegetarian Soul though.

14:56 / 30.07.03

Re_ Tax. You avoid paying it but being rich and hiring some shitfuck lawyer to hide it all around the world for you - the thing about this is though, by the time your that rich, I'm sure you don't give a shit anyway - you're just doing it out of spite.

Amd you may want to punch me Quantum, but I have just had a fat amount of tax refunded - only paid £18 tax this month and am about £200 beter off than I thought!! Obviously, you've channeled the spirit of Alvin and he's here, moving through my life!!

Yes, Alvin, I will open a saving account, I won't spend it all on booze and loose women!! I will let you publicly humililate me on national TV!!

15:09 / 30.07.03

Rothkoid: your parents are clearly like mine; my mother has spent the last seven years wondering why it was necessary for me to take out loans at University, when she never had to do such a thing and consqequently never got into debt before she got a mortgage. I pointed out that she got a grant and I didn't, but it didn't seem to sink in...

book might be alright, or cover the basics at least ie. don’t spend it all you fucking twat

I think self-help books are for those who have deluded themselves into thinking that they are incompetent and need outside assistance to buck themselves up, when really if they sat down and had a good think they could easily come to similar conclusions. Parasitical industry. Also, they are always unbearably trite and badly written, and make me want to go away and do the exact opposite (no doubt this is deliberate, so that they can bring out another self-help book which I can buy to get myself out of the next mess, and so on ad infinitum). Who are these smug gits to tell me - me - what to do, anyway? Sod off.

17:16 / 30.07.03

cash--i smell an untapped market!
miso soup for the vegetarian soul?

Our Lady of The Two Towers

19:30 / 30.07.03

Would you say that your primary problem is that you keep impulse buying on goodies or that your basic outgoings for things like rent, shopping, bills, is more than your income?

The Return Of Rothkoid

22:38 / 30.07.03

Well, Rothkoid, since I’m over 30 and about am more likely to move back into my mum’s than buy property, I think your parents would have me down as a parasite failure.

Are you my brother?

22:56 / 30.07.03

Actually, George S. Clason's THE RICHEST MAN IN BABYLON is quite excellent and deservedly a classic. Yes, the advice in it is quite simple, but such things really usually are and often we just need a reminder.

00:37 / 31.07.03

You don't need a self-help book. Just enter your income and outgoings on a spreadsheet. Look at it. That'll sort you out.

01:42 / 31.07.03

Hmmmph. If knowing where you've already spent too much money was the key to financial responsibility, I'd own lots of income-producing property by now... but knowing where your money goes is a great first step.

It's the steps afterwards that I get hung up on - actually sticking to a budget, really taking the evil plastic out of my wallet, being realistic about how much I'm going to spend over the course of the month so that plastic isn't a necessity at the end of it.....

I'm getting the sneaking suspicion that you're going to find that most of us here are in more or less the same boat as far as budgets go. If you want my advice on self-help books, I'd recommend that you look for one with a well-thought-out plan that gives you a "maybe, but..." sort of feeling. Something that isn't completely unattainable, but will provoke changes in behavior....

Good luck!

08:23 / 31.07.03

Illmatic- see? You didn't need the book after all, now you have £200 to blow on booze and music, woohoo! Clearly my channelling Alvin helped you out, now I need to do it for myself... maybe I'll look into getting a tax rebate...

10:07 / 31.07.03

Lada: I think it's simply I don't earn enough - I'm in the "not for profit" sector, in more ways than one. Very tough in London, and my employer prides themself on being the lowest paying in our particular niche. Inreased income is not helped by the fact that I've just failed to get on the course I was hoping to get on next year. Arsing fuck.

(Actually that chalks up yet another prophecy from the I Ching coming true which makes me strangely happy and amazed (again), threw Hexagram 47, line 5 a couple of weeks ago in relation to this course - I don't need any self-help stuff with this on my bookshelf).

And Izabelle - yeah, I think most of us are in the same boat re. budgeting. Most of the population probably is, with credit so easily available (Didn't usury used to be a sin?). I was talking about this with someone else a while back, even the prevelance of cash points must make it easier to go in debt. Before this, with banks with limited opening hours, it must have been so much easier to stick to a budget.

Personally, I know I've just got to form a budget and stick to it, which I reckon I can do. I can be quite disciplined when I want to. Using cash instead of cards, that sort of thing. The extra £200 will make it easier this month. Right, I'm off to Selectadisc...

10:08 / 31.07.03

Oh and Sobek, thanks for the tip, will look out for it, always happy with any excuse to meander round bookstores...

14:13 / 31.07.03

I think self-help books are for those who have deluded themselves into thinking that they are incompetent and need outside assistance to buck themselves up, when really if they sat down and had a good think they could easily come to similar conclusions. Parasitical industry. Also, they are always unbearably trite and badly written, and make me want to go away and do the exact opposite (no doubt this is deliberate, so that they can bring out another self-help book which I can buy to get myself out of the next mess, and so on ad infinitum). Who are these smug gits to tell me - me - what to do, anyway? Sod off.

Yeah!

double, triple Yeah!

They'll be first against the wall when the blah blah etc. etc...

Our Lady of The Two Towers

14:19 / 02.08.03

But self-help books can teach you stuff you need to know, I've got one at the moment for NLP, howthafuck am I supposed to know it without a book, pull it out of the air? Similarly 'Meditation in 7 days' (or something similar) had some useful exercises for quietening the mind which 'Being an absent-minded idiot in 20 minutes' helped me forget. Tarring all self-help books with the 'they're for feckless morons!' brush means that, by no real stretch, you can extend this argument to all forms of teaching, including school, which would mean that all we could look forward to is becomming members of Oasis.

08:53 / 04.08.03

But surely those are more like 'Teach yourself' manuals etc. - nothing wrong with that. It's the ones called things like 'Be Brave Enough to Be Rich' and 'The Subordinated Woman - how to make your husband happy by, er, doing everything he tells you to and picking up his socks' and 'Have a bigger piece of cheese - how YOU can eat all the fromage in the delicatessen and still have room for more!' that annoy me.

09:12 / 04.08.03

I agree with Lada pretty much, there's a number of occult self-helpy type books that I've got a great deal out of. Silly to genralise really, surely some of 'em have got to be good. I just thought this section of the book industry was worth noting and getting a few gut reactions to.

I frequently browse in Watkin's Books in the West End. Great shop even if they have got David Fucking Icke's books in the windows at present. It has thousands and thousands and titles but sometimes, when having a browse in there, it just seems weird to me that there's this whole industry devoted to selling people something so they can attempt to become something other than what they are. Very odd.

Having said that I've always been tempted to read "The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People" or whatever it's called but that might just be because I like to fetishize lists.