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Americans less tolerant towards homosexuals now?

 
 
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17:12 / 29.07.03
I was reading on the front page today that now only 48% of Americans think that same sex unions should be recognized as legal (whereas 46% say they should not). Bizarrely, in May, 60% of the people polled said that it should be legal. How odd.

Then again, I'm not sure how much I trust USA TODAY/CNN/Gallup polls anyhow...
 
 
diz
17:33 / 29.07.03
the Supreme Court decision on sodomy came in between, and as such, there's been a bunch of press about it lately and it looks more possible than it ever has in the past. if these numbers are accurate (and not just an indicator of how incompetent the pollsters are), there might be a case of cold feet going on here now that it's less about appearing and feeling tolerant and more about actually being tolerant.
 
 
*
18:29 / 29.07.03
The discrepancy may not be within their stated margin of error, but it is well within my margin of doubt.

Maybe it's the fact that I always hated maths, but anything with a percent sign after it immediately receives my vote of no-confidence. Especially when I know it's a pollster. I've never been polled for any of this stuff, nor has anyone I know, so these things can't be all that representative. Small changes in wording can cause drastic changes in result. Such as the use of same-sex UNION vs. same-sex MARRIAGE. A lot of press has been given lately to the difference between the two, and a poll which failed to take that into account would have a misleading result.

Well, any poll would have a misleading result. That's what polls are all about, really.
 
 
Ganesh
23:59 / 29.07.03
I'm sure I read something on one of the Christian boards about how, among randomly-polled US women, the anti-abortions outnumbered the pro-choices. Are we seeing a more generally Bible-tinged slide to the right?
 
 
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03:40 / 30.07.03
Maybe it's just me, but I'm getting a feeling of 80's deja vu. There was even an article in the local paper today about how 80's fashions are making a comeback... and a few days ago in USA TODAY there was an article about conservative chic and how its hip to be conservative these days.

Be afraid, be very afraid...
 
 
Perfect Tommy
03:52 / 30.07.03
I'm told that both sides of the US abortion debate (is there in fact debate anywhere else? I just realized I don't know) get around 70% of the population on their side. The pro-choicers ask, "Do you
believe it is necessary that abortion remain safe and legal for the
health and freedom of women?" and the pro-lifers ask, "Do you believe
abortion is wrong/immoral?" Of course, they're not mutually exclusive.

If it's the same poll source each time that seems less likely, but I think USA Today polls are sometimes self-selected... I could be wrong.
 
 
Cherry Bomb
08:56 / 30.07.03
Even more of interest is the fact that The NY Times ran an article on the same thing last Friday that essentially says that Americans are becoming MORE tolerant towards gay marriage.

You have to register at their site to read, so here's some highlights:

WASHINGTON, July 24 — Opposition to gay marriage has dropped significantly among Americans in recent years, according to a new poll by the Pew Research Center for the People and the Press.

In the poll, 53 percent of respondents said they opposed gay marriages, while 38 percent said they backed them. In 1996 65 percent said they opposed such marriages, while 27 percent favored the idea.

The new survey, which focused on the impact of religion on politics, found what the center called a "growing gap in opinion on this issue along racial and religious lines." White evangelical Protestants were the most firmly opposed to the idea of gay marriage: 83 percent said they opposed it; 84 percent opposed it in 1996. Opposition among blacks also remained essentially unchanged, with 64 percent opposing gay marriages today, and 65 percent opposing the idea in 1996.

In contrast, white Roman Catholics and white mainline Protestants have become increasingly open to the idea, according to the poll, which was conducted June 24 to July 8 among 2,002 adults. The margin of error was 2.5 percentage points.



More worrying about this is the fact the article goes on to talk about how the number of Americans who think Islam is a "violent" religion is increasing, but I digress...
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
09:02 / 04.08.03
The Anglican Church in America has voted to confirm the appointment of an openly gay bishop.

More here.
 
 
*
13:48 / 04.08.03
I'm waiting for the final vote today before I celebrate, but this definitely raises my opinion of the Episcopal Church. I already knew they were tolerant, but this speaks volumes for their courage.

Note that the Anglican Union (whatever that may be; as a non-Christian I don't follow these things much) seems to be largely against this move by one of their member churches, saying it will tear apart the union and create this huge schism among American Christians. Unnamed disasters will surely follow if different churches agree to disagree on this issue.

This move really takes a lot of courage, both from the diocese and Mr Robinson himself, and I'm following it interestedly.
 
 
*
02:11 / 05.08.03
Update-- the vote has apparently been pushed back because of a late-breaking (very late-breaking) allegation of sexual harassment. Who bets that's a smear campaign?
 
 
Slim
02:44 / 05.08.03
The polls I've seen have shown that the majority of Americans are against the legalization of same-sex marriages and the number of these people has risen of late. I've seen it explained as simply the initial panic that impending change often brings and some expect the numbers to drop shortly. But whomever said it earlier is right- I don't trust many polls outside of ones used for Presidential elections. Those fuckers are are spot-on (Florida and Dewey being the exceptions).
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
07:56 / 05.08.03
Put up job.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
09:00 / 05.08.03
Yes and clearly very nicely arranged.
 
 
w1rebaby
11:17 / 05.08.03
I was listening to that story on the radio this morning, before I read this thread.

An 11th hour email making allegations of "inappropriate touching"? My first reaction was "they've found someone who probably sincerely believes a hand on the shoulder was sexual harassment, and they're going to use it to smear".
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
11:25 / 05.08.03
In the UK, if you get caught wantonly mucking up a wedding ceremony - i.e. if you put up your hand when the vicar says 'does anyone present know of just reason....' etc. and say 'because the bride is made entirely out of meringue!' - you are in a lot of trouble. The law is very harsh.

I wonder whether there's a similar provision for conspiring to smear an episcopal candidate?
 
 
alas
13:24 / 05.08.03
Ahh, but that's partly because British laws are pretty protective of the slanderee rather than the slanderer, as I understand them, by comparison to the U.S., where the emphasis is on freedom of speech. So it's hard, in the U.S. to prove a slander charge--the burden of proof is on the one slandered--whereas, again if I'm not mistaken, the burden rests on the slanderer in Britain to prove ze didn't slander the wounded party. No?
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
14:02 / 05.08.03
I think this is a separate thing: an aspect of law dealing with religious ceremonies, probably specifically Christian ones, given that we have an official religion. I seem to recall knowing a lawyer who specialised in it.
 
 
w1rebaby
14:16 / 05.08.03
Oh, did you see the other smear attempt?

The guy was involved with a group for BLAG youth called Outright. Another group called Outright, based somewhere else, had a site which linked to another site which linked to a porn site.

This turned into "Bishop promotes internet porn".

Pathetic.
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
17:29 / 05.08.03
Vote rescheduled: "a Church spokesman said the vote would not have been rescheduled if Mr Robinson had not been cleared."
 
 
*
02:24 / 06.08.03
Congratulations to Bishop Robertson, and kudos to him and to the majority of the Episcopal representatives for having the courage to see this through. I'm almost tempted to go join an Episcopal church, just to show that far from creating a rush to leave, this move could draw more people to the denomination who are unhappy in less tolerant milieux and would be proud to count themselves a member of such a courageous, forward-thinking group of people.

The smear campaigns were shown to be just that-- the last-ditch effort of desperate individuals to throw the vote. A calm and level-headed examination of the facts cleared that up, and probably added to Bishop Robertson's case.

A few threats remain: Conservative elements are calling for the Anglican Communion to overturn the decision, something it can't do unless the scope of its power is to be drastically expanded just for the purpose. Bishop Robertson might find himself advised to be very careful, so no one has any grounds for bringing false charges against him in the future, although I would hope this would not affect his close relationship with his parishioners. And there's always the chance that some radical element will go off the deep end and do something drastic, may God forbid it.

But I think the majority of Episcopals are likely to be calm about the decision. After all, gay men have held positions of leadership in the church before-- they were just celibate/closeted. Bishop Robertson's "sin" is not that he is gay, it's that he's honest.
 
  
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