BARBELITH underground
 

Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.


Important: PM threats carrying over into Real Life

 
 
Ganesh
10:57 / 24.07.03
After some thought, I've decided to post publicly about this - on the grounds that a) it's likely to influence the way Barbelith operates generally, and b) may affect Barbeloids individually. I'll do my best to 'anonymise' the situation, but am aware that it's not exactly difficult to work out the personalities involved.

In short, I have been, and continue to be, threatened by another poster - and those threats have taken on a Real Life dimension. I feel quite justified in describing them as 'threats' because the poster concerned has strongly intimated the possibility of impending legal, social and professional harm to myself - if his demands are not met.

The dispute is a long-running one, and concerns actions I took as an Administrator with which he later disagreed, and considered offensive. He PMed me several weeks ago requesting that X, Y and Z be carried out - or further steps would be taken. He attempted to restart a one-to-one dialogue between us which, for a variety of reasons, I resisted. I did, however, discuss the situation with the other Moderators and, on balance of consensus, decided not to accede to his requests.

Fast-forward to this week, and several new PMs, again attempting to start a correspondence on the subject - and making more explicit threats. These were vague on (legal) specifics but threatened contact with my ISP, Tom Coates' ISP and the company which hosts Barbelith. The poster also quoted a separate email account I use for work and family purposes - dr*************@hotmail.com - and which has never appeared on Barbelith. Not being especially 'Net-literate, I have absolutely no idea how this poster obtained this information - but the fact that he had gone to such lengths to discover my personal details seemed, in and of itself, moderately threatening.

After conferring with other Moderators, I was in two minds whether or not I should simply ignore this poster's PMs. A further, yet more intimidatory one arrived, adding additional threats to contact the police(?) and my workplace(??); while clearly hyperbolic, the growing element of Real Life involvement increased my feeling of being under threat.

So... after further discussion, the Moderators decided to compromise on certain of the poster's demands - although this seemed (to me, anyway) uncomfortably like giving in to blackmail. I received one further PM from the original poster, acknowledging the changes but intimating darkly that he would get back in touch with me after a month or two in order to attempt, once again, to 'discuss things'.

Why am I posting this? Because it occurs to me that this particular poster might make similar threats to other Barbeloids (particularly Moderators), and they might wish to react accordingly - changing passwords on their PM and email accounts. Also, I feel that PM threats carrying over into Real Life situations crosses a certain line. I'm not sure how Barbelith, generally speaking, will change in response to this line having been crossed, but I'm pretty sure there will be changes...

Be warned.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
11:21 / 24.07.03
I feel that I should reply to this but really don't know what to say so basically I hope you're okay Ganesh and I hope you're keeping and passing on hard copies of any abuse to someone.
 
 
Ganesh
11:55 / 24.07.03
Thanks, Anna, I'm okay - and I'm keeping a file on the correspondence. Initially, I'd planned to simply delete this poster's PMs but, as the threats intensified, it seemed more sensible to preserve them online and as hard copy.
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
12:19 / 24.07.03
Well, it's slightly similar to Tom's receiving unsolicited packages in the mail. And as such, would probably be recognised as verging on stalking - something that you yourself would be able to charge said poster with if they continue to make these sort of threats against you.

To be honest, the whole idea of sueing Barbelith et al is becoming a little tiresome and, as has been thrashed out elsewhere, is pretty dubious, legally. If jollies are being had from stirring posters with what are - let's face it - threats of action, then it should be remembered by the stirrer that they can be interpreted by law enforcement officers as just that: threats. Which, I would imagine, carry a fair bit more weight than "you called me a twat - delete it!" pissings-about on a message board.

Also; do you have your name on your Hotmail address? And have you used it elsewhere? If so, it could be relatively easy to pick up. I believe you've also probably given enough away about your worklife online to make tracing that fairly easy, too - not that it's entirely fair play to do so, but I think that we in general release more information about ourselves online that we imagine.
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
12:21 / 24.07.03
And in a thoroughly unnecessary and possibly rhetorical posting - haven't people got anything better to do? Jesus fuck...
 
 
Ganesh
12:31 / 24.07.03
Oh, I'm perfectly aware that I, like others here, have disclosed enough information to make 'tracking me down' relatively simple - if one were inclined to invest sufficient time and energy in so doing. I guess the whole thing bemuses me more than it seriously threatens me because I'm not particularly 'blackmailable' (I'm pretty much an 'open book' at work and elsewhere - my only skeleton came out of the closet a good decade ago), attempts to sue me as an individual aren't likely to be terribly productive (apart from anything else, my financial assets are relatively paltry) and, all things considered, I'm not worth the hassle.

Having said which, I do resent the apparently malicious (if largely notional) invasion of my personal privacy, and am not averse to seeking legal advice on this score myself...
 
 
Tryphena Absent
13:15 / 24.07.03
Never push someone who looks after people's minds to get by... unless it's your mum
 
 
Ganesh
13:20 / 24.07.03
Well, I've made my managers aware of the possibility that 'someone off the Internet' with a grudge may attempt to harass or smear me at work. This being a not infrequent occurrence in psychiatry, they were extremely understanding.
 
 
grant
13:22 / 24.07.03
How to Combat Cyber-Stalking
Computer World, 16 July 03

If you feel that you're a victim of cyberstalking, there are several steps you can take:


If you're receiving unwanted content from an individual, make clear to that person that you would like him or her not to contact you again. Reply civilly to the electronic communication stating clearly once, and only once, that you don't want to receive any further communications.

If you continue to receive unwanted messages, don't respond, because this may only further encourage the stalker.

Print out the messages you receive, making sure that copies of e-mail contain full headers.

Save all communications for evidence and be sure not to edit or alter them in any way.

Keep a record of your contacts with Internet systems administrators or law enforcement officials.

Consider blocking or filtering messages from the harasser. Many popular e-mail programs have a filter feature that will automatically delete e-mail messages from a particular e-mail address or one that contains offensive words. Chat-room contacts may also be blocked. Most chat programs allow the users to block messages from another user. Unfortunately, this provides little protection, since the cyberstalker can carry on the harassment using a different screen name.
If the harassment continues or escalates, you should immediately contact local law enforcement authorities and inform them of the situation in as much detail as possible. Be sure to inform them of the steps that you have taken and what evidence you have preserved.



-----
Computer Crimes Bill of 1997

. (1) A person shall be guilty of an offence if-

(a) he causes a computer to perform any function with intent to secure access to any program or data held in any computer;

(b) the access he intends to secure is unauthorised; and

(c) he knows at the time when he causes the computer to perform the function that that is the case.



-------

What Is Stalking? (legal review)
 
 
Ganesh
13:23 / 24.07.03
Cheers, Grant!
 
 
cusm
15:56 / 24.07.03
Note also that neither Barbelith or its provider (pair.com) can be sued over content. Its the poster, not the forum, which is the legal target of such a suit. The worst that can happen is an injunction can be served to remove the content, which this board admin will have to comply with by deleting the posts. Usually, its more a matter of supoenaing the IP of the poster to purse them directly. Either way, the action is initiated and paid for by the plaintiff, which is enough to deter most right off the bat as court action is expensive.
 
 
Mazarine
21:38 / 24.07.03
That is excessively creepy. Huggles for Ganesh, and kudos for Grant for continuing to be like a library-of-person.
 
 
The Natural Way
11:47 / 25.07.03
Jesus!

Oh, I'm perfectly aware that I, like others here, have disclosed enough information to make 'tracking me down' relatively simple - if one were inclined to invest sufficient time and energy in so doing.

That's the really creepy thing: the time and energy!

I think you should out the fucker, so we know who to avoid on the barbe-street.
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
12:52 / 25.07.03
I don't see any particular profit in outing the poster. However, a couple of things do occur to me:

This seems to have ceased to be an issue about posting and moderation, and become a question of conduct of a poster towards moderators and the board in general. The poster in question has stepped outside board-life and suggested real-world action. This is therefore no longer about whatever has passed between Ganesh and poster X and is now about threats toward Barbelith as an entity and Ganesh and Tom in particular.

Suggesting that there might be social and professional consequences for Ganesh in person strikes me as extremely stupid. I suspect that such threats are legally actionable, possibly under criminal law - so poster X stands to lose a great deal more than anyone else if this matter ever did go to law.

At the risk of inflaming the discussion, I think that irrespective of the issues involved, this kind of threat is in any case completely unacceptable.

At the same time, it seems to me that this ludicrous situation is partly the result of the whole discussion happening in camera. Maybe a dispute which looks like going nuclear should be brought into the open rather than conducted via PM, because then those involved have some way of seeing the response to their positions from the community in general. Anyone who found themselves screaming "you'll all be very sorry" to the board at large could assume they'd gone off the deep end and needed to take a reality check.

We tend to regard the PM system as something like the Confessional; perhaps we should think of it as a 'court of first resort' only - anything which becomes a serious moderation/board policy dispute should be played out publicly.
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
18:07 / 25.07.03
Great Caesar's Toast, this both sucks and implies that this person has some serious problems if such a really minor thing has caused them to start dragging in your RL to settle what is really such a minor philosophical point? Does no-one have a sense of proportion any more?
 
 
alas
23:38 / 25.07.03
[ . . . passing on hard copies of any abuse to someone.
Obviously, I'm unlikely to add proportion to this discussion, but this did strike me as a funny phrase. (Is this a thread topic in conversation?)]

oh, p.s., cheers, ganesh! I hope this all sorts itself out for you.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
01:51 / 26.07.03
You're right, you added no proportion, maybe next time you shouldn't say anything?
 
 
Jack The Bodiless
02:12 / 26.07.03
'Nesh, I'm so sorry you've found yourself in this position. I know it's not the first time. You take care...
 
 
Quantum
08:42 / 31.07.03
I had no idea people take this stuff so seriously- oh, wait, it's just the crazy ones.
Thanks for the warning 'nesh.
 
  
Add Your Reply