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It's Punching Tim... Ow!

 
 
deja_vroom
15:04 / 18.02.02
Yesterday I went into a fight. Actually I didn't, I was just trying to make the beginning of this post interesting, and give it some sort of motivation, that it actually lacks.

The thing is, I was thinking about some fights I've been in, and it just struck me how inadequate the act of punching someone in the face is. I mean, a skull is someting hard, it's full of angles and all that. Then there you go - c'mon, make your hand into a fist and look at it - and hit that wall of bones with all strenght... Of course, if you're a mountain of muscles, you're more likely to get results, but the average bloke won't - at least, not so quickly.

So, what's the Politics of Punching? Are there researches showing how this is some sort of inherited behaviour? And don't you think this is one of the less thought-about acts that human beings perform? I mean, when I stopped to think about this issue a couple of months ago, I came to the conclusion that it would be much better, in the embarrassing situation of finding myself in a fight, if I started using my elbows and knees to get quicker results against my opponent. Later I saw in some kung-fu magazine an article about self-defense and this sort of stuff, and they said that punching someone in the face is the least likely to produce some result.

Why do we do it so instinctively(sp? is this a word?)?
 
 
Sauron
15:11 / 18.02.02
You are right re: elbows and knees. You are wrong however in that the nose has the most easily broken veins in the body. Thus a god bop can result in a lot of blood and swelling causing vision to blur and will look much worse that it is. A punch to the chin or nose can also result in instant knock out, although an elbow or stiff flat hand to the Adam's Apple is probably more effective in terms of pain. One of the most effective manoeuvres consists of a swift kick to the crotch followed by a knee to the head when they are bent double. An upper cut to the sola-plexus can also prove efficient.

However, I have always found the best move is a thousand apologies followed by a swift retreat.
 
 
Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero
15:45 / 18.02.02
While breaking the nose is a great way to go, very few people in this world throw a punch straight out from their body when they get into a street fight. It's almost always a swing of some sort, which is a great deal less likely to hit the nose and break it. And if you hit anywhere else, it doesn't really do much except scare someone who has never been hit in the face before.

I suppose it's just natural if someone is yelling obscenities at you or cursing your wife right in front of you, and you lose control, you'll go for the mouth. Otherwise, I'd just guess the face is something most people are sensitive about, making it a good target for shock.

Still, for best results, hit 'em in the throat. Try not to rupture anything, though, cause it'll probably kill him if you do.
 
 
Morlock - groupie for hire
15:46 / 18.02.02
Then there's always the old saw of smacking someone's nose into their brain, thoug I never did find out if that's genuine or not.

Guess most of it's just to do with identification. Hands do work, elbows just get them where they need to be. And it's their face/head mind that's annoying you so that's what you aim for. Either that or we're all watching far too many movies...
 
 
pointless and uncalled for
15:54 / 18.02.02
Try to put your opponent on the ground as quickly as possible with as little damage as possible.

The two key areas to give you the opportunity for this if your aren't shithaus material are the stomach and the happy sack for a guy and the kidneys for a woman.

Note, I advocate the path of least violence and am especially against violence against women. However in the event that you are left with no other less violent option, the kidneys are more favourable than a stomach shot.

Once the person is on the ground keep them on the ground until they stop trying to get up.
 
 
moriarty
16:05 / 18.02.02
I have a friend who has developed a form of martial arts called Nage-Fu. It's all elbows, knees and headbutts, and there are 150 degrees of yellow belt. I only got to the 34th degree before I skipped town.
 
 
MJ-12
16:14 / 18.02.02
quote:Originally posted by Morlock/1:
Then there's always the old saw of smacking someone's nose into their brain, thoug I never did find out if that's genuine or not.


Considering that boxers get hit with immense force from pretty much every conceivable angle, It seems unlikley.
 
 
The Monkey
16:34 / 18.02.02
The cartilage-into-brain thing would require a lot of force and a pretty precise angle...only in a Steven Seagal movie can every third person die this way. It probably is doable, just ridiculously improbable, and basically unworkable in a fight between mere mortals.

Perhaps the tendency to go for the face is somewhat biometric...by which I mean that the opponent's/antagonist's face lines up fairly well with the shoulder's range of motion.

The other thing I'd say is that it's psychological. The face is the locus of individuality...it's how we recognize a person as themselves. In a fight, hitting the face is the desire to direct damage to the other's essential self.
 
 
moriarty
16:46 / 18.02.02
I just spent the last five minutes wondering who Punching Tim is. Then I realized that it's supposed to be Punching Time, but interrupted.

Damn.
 
 
Ganesh
16:50 / 18.02.02
quote:Originally posted by Wisdom of idiots:
Note, I advocate the path of least violence and am especially against violence against women.


What about the ones with cocks?

(Sorry; the raw testosterone wafting around this thread's quite gone to my head...)
 
 
deja_vroom
17:00 / 18.02.02
bY [MONKEYS] quote:The face is the locus of individuality...it's how we recognize a person as themselves.
Yes, this is the sort of thing I was thinking.
 
 
pointless and uncalled for
17:54 / 18.02.02
quote:Originally posted by Ganesh v4.2:


What about the ones with cocks?



Well that really is an individual issue between puncher and punchee and something that would have to discussed indepth regarding identity and desired treatment in light of pursued actions.

[ 18-02-2002: Message edited by: Wisdom of idiots ]
 
 
Ganesh
20:21 / 18.02.02
Before or after the punching?
 
 
Cop Killer
02:40 / 19.02.02
quote:Originally posted by Ganesh v4.2:


What about the ones with cocks?


I think Danny Partridge got arrested for that once.
 
 
Sax
07:37 / 19.02.02
Who the hell's this Punching Tim, anyway? Some kinda crazy mutant superhero or something?
 
 
deja_vroom
08:40 / 19.02.02
Sax: Think Thing
 
 
pointless and uncalled for
10:47 / 19.02.02
quote:Originally posted by Ganesh v4.2:
Before or after the punching?


Primarily I would have to say before but if th puncher identifies as transchronological then it would revert to discussion.
 
 
deja_vroom
15:39 / 28.04.04
Dudes. I just rescued this thread back from the dead for no other reason than I AM BORED OUT OF MY SKULL!
 
 
Mr Tricks
16:52 / 28.04.04
well if you're serious about answers to your questions I'd suggest asking it here where alot of people can speak from deep experience.

My 2¢ on the subject:
What makes the punch or fist such a commonly useful means of attack is that it turns a hand (which is basicly a collection of really small breakable bones wrapped in a thin sheath of muscle tendons and skin) and turns it into a single blunt tool for striking. Monkeys do it too. Of course us 21st century humans have lost alot of gripping strength and developed greater sensitivity on that surface area making the use of a fist a bit more challanging. One has to Learn how to hold a proper fist these days as well as leaning how to use it.
Still the average person is more likely to get results from a balled fist than an open hand slap.

If you make a fist you'll notice that the bones in your knuckles will almost protrude from the body of that fist. Any decent strike with them can be devestating (consider also the addition of rings) of course if your not used to punching something hard it's going to hurt. But a punch to the head's got plenty of potential for stopping a fight quickly.
There's a bloody nose.
There's the Black eye.
A punch to the mouth can damage teeth but those teeth can damage your fist as well.
A punch to the forehead can potentially rock the brain against the back end of the skull causing dizzyness or a "knock out"
A punch to the ear will hurt alot but it tricky to pull off. The random round-house type of punch that most people will resort to first might achieve this but that's really a very ineffeciant attack. Instead, an open palm slap to the ear --cup the palm just a bit to trap air-- can burst an eardrum.
Then there's punching to the throat, very effective. Once again if it's a round house attack then you're better off "chopping" at the neck with the blade of your hand. Or, if you know how, the ridge created by you tucked thumb, as with most of this stuff, practice is the only way to make this stuff usefull.

Punches to the upper body are prettymuch useless and punches to the gut are overrated. You have to really know how to puch if you xpect to get results from punching someone in the stomach. A punch to the groin can be useful but again not recomended, people are instinctivly protective of their groin and to get a punch down there you're prettymuch leaving your entire upper body vulnerable. A kick is better, but you risk loosing balance. Better to kick the knee then close the distance enough to get your knee into the groin . . . keep your hands up.

If you're going to enter a fight leading with elbows and knees you're probably doomed. Just look at the distance from an outstretched fist compaired to an elbow. Reach does matter and the elbow, while fearce, is effective only once you're already in close.

Here's an experiment you can try at home to examine reach. make a fist and extend it in front of you, for the purposes of this experiment keep your shoulder squared. Now extend you fist out but keep in vertical, with your fingers horizontal as if you where holding a torch. Now with your shoulders still squared off, standing straight-up place that extended fist against the wall. Not many people punch like this.

Once you've placed that fist against the wall rotate it so that the palm is facing the floor. You should notice that suddenly you loose about an inch or two from your striking distance. You would have to roll your punching arm's shoulder forward to make up that distance. This is the classic "boxing" punch most people learn in the school yard or basement, it's decent, but the loss of those inches can mean the difference between a punch that clips the tip of someone's nose and one that lands squarely in the face.

A decent article that expands on those mechanics can be found here.
 
  
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