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Jack Kerouac

 
 
weepy_minotaur
16:23 / 21.07.03
Jack Kerouac was known as "The king of the Beats". In my humble opinion, he was the greatest writer to have ever lived. Anyone ever heard of him, have an opinion?
Discuss....
 
 
Jack Vincennes
21:15 / 21.07.03
What would you recommend reading? I've read On The Road and Big Sur (not even slightly predictable choices), and thought that in the latter case he was trading on an established style somewhat - although what he was writing about was far more interesting.

I liked the sound of The Subterraneans, but would like to hear if there's anything more vital than that.
 
 
Baz Auckland
23:35 / 21.07.03
There's an old thread here about Kerouac...

I'm really starting to like his writings, ever since it clicked in that they're all autobiographical, and all have the same characters. It makes a nice series of books that way.

I haven't been able to tackle any of the more incoherent ones like Dr. Sax yet. The Dharma Bums is a great one on mountain climbing and Eastern philosophy...

I'm halfway through "Lonesome Traveller" right now, which is short pieces on being a railroad man, working on a ship, hanging out in Mazatlan, etc. It's pretty fun.
 
 
The Fifth Columnist
00:17 / 22.07.03
I don't know if I'd go so far to call him the greatest writer ever, myself. Now, greatest 20th cent. American writer....
The thing is, his work is such a mixed bag...Big Sur was trading on an established style, not to mention written in the midst of an alcohol-induced nervous breakdown -- and I think it shows. But, it's precisely his unflinching honesty in writing about himself that makes him great. It was only by delving deep into his own life that he created the 'portrait of a generation' that we all remember him for.
I think his poems are some of his best work -- Mexico City Blues is a classic. And if you enjoyed On The Road, look for Visions of Cody, which is a companion piece, going deeper into the Kerouac/Cassidy friendship.
 
 
weepy_minotaur
05:09 / 22.07.03
vince whatever you do stay away from "Good Blonde and Others". that being said, read "Satori in Paris", "Big Sur","Tristessa" and of course "Dharma Bums". the legend of Duluoz (if yr interested) is as follows
"Visions of Gerard"
"Doctor Sax"
"Maggie Cassidy"
"Vanity of Duluoz"
"On the Road"
"Visions of Cody"
"The Subterraneans"
"Tristessa"
"Lonesome Traveler"
"Desolation Angels"
"The Dharma Bums"
"Book of Dreams"
"Big Sur"
"Satori in Paris"
whew thats a lot of readin but well worth it. by the way if anyone asks me what my favorite Kerouac book is they will be thouroughly pantsed.
 
 
Cypher
05:28 / 22.07.03
For my money, give me William S. Burroughs...particularly his Cities of the Red Night Trillogy. I haven't read as much by Kerouac, pretty much only "On the Road," which I enjoyed for its high-octane performance. People I've talked to often say that its the pinnacle of his work, and that it just went down-hill from there. Have others here found that to be the case? Are there other high-points he's reached? I'm curious to know what books you've read, weepy willow, that have persuaded you he is the best writer *ever*. It's hard for me to even think of him as the best American writer.
 
 
Cypher
05:48 / 22.07.03
I've also heard that "Visions of Cody" (or is it Gerard) is really good.
weepy minotaur: I placed my post before seeing the long-ass list of books you provided. I wonder, out of them all, what book (besides "On the Road") would you most highly recommend?
 
 
Cypher
05:56 / 22.07.03
Shit! I just realized in the first post I sent, I called you weepy willow instead of weepy minotaur. It's the middle of the night where I'm at right now, and I'm pretty stoned. Sory 'bout that...
 
 
weepy_minotaur
07:18 / 22.07.03
i also am a big fan of Burroughs, Cypher. in my opinion his finest work is "The Cat Inside". weepy willow huh? hmmm has a nice ring to it.... youre excused. its also the middle of the night where i am and my girlfriend just broke up with me, so im in considerably worse shape than you ,sir. "Visions of Cody" is good, but my personal favorite is a tie between two:"Dharma Bums" and Satori in Paris"
off to bed to cry my eyes out...
 
 
Jack Vincennes
08:28 / 22.07.03
Sorry to hear that minotaur... cheers for the list and advice re : 'Good Blonde...'

Has anyone read The Town And The City? Since that was written before he developed the spontaneous prose style, I wondered if that added anything to the reading of his other works or whether it was strictly for completists.

This thread has also made me look at my copy of On The Road again, and I had forgotten quite how good it was, and how funny. Especially the section where they're at Burroughs' house.
 
 
suttree
12:36 / 22.07.03
Desolation Angels is still the one I have the best memories of
 
 
rizla mission
16:50 / 22.07.03
I was thinking of starting a thread on Kerouac actually, in order to say that although I find his way of life and way of writing and persona very inspiring and reflect his influence on modern literature, I (whisper it) find his books really, really dull.

I've tried reading three of them, and the only one I've actually finished is 'On the Road'. His writing does have moments of great beauty, but I find they're submerged under acres of pointless 'what I did on my holidays' type stuff.. maybe it's his enthusiasm and lack of a conventional narrative structure, but it all gets like "..and then I met my pals and we all got drunk and it was really cool, but then I had no money so I had to get a job, and all my friends went away and it was kind of crappy, but I kind of liked my job so it was ok.." for pages on end. The only thing I'm really able to take from most of it is a greater appreciation of the general Beat Generation aesthetic, of which I'm a big fan.

Anyone care to list the points I'm missing?
 
 
Cypher
22:49 / 22.07.03
weepy minotaur: hope you're doing ok. Someone just gave me a copy of the "Dharma Bums," and I think I'll give it a go, maybe post after I've read it (I just finished reading "120 Days of Sodom" and boy am
glad that's over...I can only read so much about eating feces)

Rizla: the general problems with Kerouc you mentioned are what keep me from placing him among my absolute favorites. I understand and apreciate that he is trying to create an authentic translation of his experiences, but not every experience someone has is particularly interesting or relevent. When reading "On the Road," I remember thinking that if his style wasn't so cool and fresh, I'd have some serious problems with some of the tangents that the narative takes. Perhaps I too am missing some greater function they serve.
 
 
Jack Vincennes
09:46 / 23.07.03
My problem with Kerouac is actually the opposite - I like the way he writes about his experiences, and find that the dark warm narcotic American night type passages can get wearisome after a while. Mainly, though, I find the former interesting for the amount that he appears to conceal; there's no sense of proportion in the narrative, and so what he treats as a throwaway event may be important either later in the book, or for someone else. I'm thinking specifically about the part in On The Road where he ruins a childhood friendship, and when he leaves the house only says something like well I was kind of sorry about that, then I went to Fresno again.

Likewise, not sure if there's a deeper point to all this, I just like the opposition between what happens and how that experience is written...
 
 
Ben Danes
03:52 / 21.10.04
I'd agree with Rizla as well. Just up to part 4 of On the Road now, and I'm trying to garner enough enthusiasm to finish off the last 60 pages or so. In fact halfway through it, picked up King Solomon's Mines to read, which is something I never do normally do, because I prefer to finish one book then on to the next rather than read both con-currently. Pretty much finished KSM as well, so I guess I'm going to have to finish off OTR.

The auto-biographical style is interesting, definitely at first, but once I got used to it, it does become fairly dull, in that everything is given the same relevance, in that going to the servic station is given the same amount of emphasis as him and Dean going on a bender. There's times where I was almost begging for him to just stop and reflect about it for a bit, but then its straight onto the bus station or a jazz club. Really frustrating in that he'll go on describing a jazz club and all about the band for a few pages, but won't spare a few pages for a something that really deserves it (no examples I can remember off the top of my head, but that sort of makes the point in that nothing is made to be seen as really remarkable when it occurs, because the story keeps chugging on). I realise it's probally a conscious decision not to reflect on events and stuff, it definitely is, but Sal leaving the Mexican girl behind in California, even though he does mention later that he could/wished to have had stayed there, you don't get that impression that he would have and he regrets it, because it doesn't have that great of an importance in the story, but I'm just babbling now.

Decent book, but it definitely lost steam for me. I do want to know what happens to Sal and Dean and how they end up, but not burning to see how it ends. Really hoping I dig it at the end, but.
 
 
Trebor
10:29 / 21.10.04
Started reading OTR about this time last year and ended up setting off around the country by the time he meets burroghs (Ray Murphy?). I think the phrase "ill-fated" sums up that experience pretty well..

So far I've made it through Dharma Bums (which I loved) and started Big Sur, but I just can't stand it. I think the only other one I'd like to read is Satori, but no bookshop seems to stock it..

No ones mentioned 'Orpheus Emerged'; a novelette released post-humously but written preOTR. I wouldn't recommend to anyone other than a JunKy..
 
 
at the scarwash
13:29 / 22.10.04
A younger me rather enjoyed The Dharma Bums, and I think that I might just be able to reread that, but everything else I've read of the man makes me ill. Perhaps it was reading Melville that did it to me, but I ask more from novelists these days as far as style is concerned. Was it Gore Vidal that said (in regards to OTR), "That's not writing, that's typing" ? As curmudgeonly as it sounds, I find that I agree. Cod buddhism and amphetamine abuse do not a novelist make. No one has ever reduced the American experience to such meaningless, shallow exoticism. Except for maybe Salinger. And his poetry is just dreadful.
 
 
Jack Vincennes
21:03 / 22.10.04
scarwash -it was Truman Capote who was credited with the 'typing' quotation. I was interested in the Salinger comparison as well, but I'll try to come back to it when I'm less tired...

Also Trebor -Burroughs was called Old Bull Lee in On The Road (although I don't know what he might have been called in any of the other books). Sorry for the sudden burst of information, it's not often I'm in the same place as my books when I post!

I would also say, it's worth progressing with Big Sur -I finished it about a year from actually getting it, having got thirty or so pages in and deciding I hated it. It takes quite a while to get into, but it does get better.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
04:30 / 23.10.04
The bit in Visions Of Cody about Joan Crawford is really, really good.
 
 
jamesPD
10:45 / 11.03.08
Bumpety bump . . .

BEAT INFLUENCE

Wednesday 12th March
Doors 7:30pm
£7/£5 members & concessions

In celebration of Jack Kerouacs birthday, an evening of poetry, music and comedy inspired by the beats. With performances of work by Jack Kerouac, William Burroughs, Allen Ginsberg and others.

The Horse Hospital, Russel Square, London

Link
 
 
mashedcat
13:41 / 14.06.08
kerouac was certainly one the innovators of 20th century literature but i dont feel he was the greatest. however i really enjoy his writing. i have read lots of beatnik literature, gary snyder(jaffy ryder of dharma bums) ginsburg, burroughs and associates like ken kesey etc .they were the only expression of leftism in america i could find other than steinbecks writing around the `great depression`, grapes of wrath etc..writers likes these and the ideas they discuss/share with the reader positively influenced me and i suspect they have helped maintain some left wing thinking ,,,,i doubt bush or cheney or rumsfelt would share our delight in beatnik literature,,,are there any writers of today other than chuck palanuik(fight club) worth paying attention to?
 
 
Dusto
13:06 / 15.06.08
Not to rot the thread, but you might check out Pynchon as a lefty.
 
  
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