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Underground > Radio & Music >

Tradition Vs. Originality

All Acting Regiment

13:26 / 18.07.03

Ok. There's this "alternative" pub near me which is split into two sides. on the one side, a bunch of antisocial white teenagers wearing eminem t-shirts, baggy pants, dreadlocks, breakdancing to incubus, lostprophets and limp bizkit. There is the occassional girl wearing a tie with two pink pig tails.

On the other side of the pub, a lot of thirty-plus men wearing leather jackets with pentagrams on the back of them, long hair, and Black sabbath t-shirts. These two groups do not so much co-exist as feed off the mutual hatred.

The Sabfans would say that "these young pricks" don't have a clue about "rock music", they "werent there in '69/'76/'84."

The thing is, that were there not people who looked at the Sabfans when they were sixteen and said, "oh, these kids, they don't have a clue" as well? Are today's exponents of particular musical styles all just fake, contrived copies of the originals, or is there in fact no "original" style?

I don't know much about hip-hop, but this guy was telling me the other day about how originally it was a way of expression for people who didn't have a voice, and now it was just "prats like Eminem" singing songs about violence because it made them feel hard. Maybe it's all connected.

Regrettable Juvenilia

15:06 / 21.07.03

"This guy" obviously doesn't know much about hip-hop either.

1) Like it or not, Eminem himself has used hip-hop as "a way of expression for people who [don't] have a voice" - ie, a disenfranchised young white urban underclass. That he has denigrated and lyrically attacked other groups who are just as or more marginalised is anything from a shame to a tragedy, depending on how you shade it (and you may decide that it invalidates anything positive in his music, but let's come to that in a moment). His ability to reflect his background or speak on behalf of the aforementioned underclass may also arguably be compromised by his very success - this is the Catch 22 with which the majority of successful hip-hop artists have had to struggle, and they (Eminem included) have often done so within their music itself. However this problem is older than hip-hop, and not likely to go away - in other words, it's not a problem that has only recently emerged.

2) I find the expression "prats like Eminem" quite puzzling - my italics, because I don't think there are many rappers in the public eye right now who have a great deal in common with Eminem in terms of lyrical style, public image, or cultural background/make-up. If you want to argue that the common traits are a tendency towards macho self-aggrandisation and the imagery of physical violence (as seems to be implied) - again, these attributes pre-date hip-hop (and arguably rock'n'roll) as common traits in popular music, so I don't quite see how this is a case of diminishing returns, either.

3) Finally, the idea that today's hip-hop is limited to just artists who are in any way similar to Eminem is misguided to the point of laughable. Hip-hop is arguably more diverse than ever outside of the 'mainstream', which isn't very restricted either... Am out of time but can provide umpteen examples.

Death to nostalgia!

Matthew Fluxington

15:26 / 21.07.03

There is something to be said for tradition, isn't there? Throughout history, traditional music has been a major part of music in general. Why should relatively young genres/traditions be so different from enthic folk music, classical, opera, and other music that is focused less on originality and more on culture and history?

A strong case can be made that the contemporary obsession with originality and novelty is a by-product of the business side of the recording industry, which thrives on selling a steady stream of new products. Only an audience which has been brainwashed into believing either a) that only chronologically new things are exciting and relevant or b) that only things from the past are "authentic" would be so eager to embrace the ideas that Chris is mentioning at the start of the thread.

Rollo Kim, on location

08:45 / 25.07.03

OK, here's a can of worms for yous: I don't remember where I found the idea but... and making a massive generalization here: 'white' music creates more obvious generation gaps because it's progression is not smooth and consistent - it progresses by reacting against the previous generation's sound, it progresses when external influences are taken on board: rock n' roll, psychadelia, heavy metal, punk, ska, indie, post-rock, electronica, etc. 'Black' music has more of a smooth progression - blues, r'n'b, lover's rock, reggae, dub, hip hop, electro, house, jungle, r'n'b, urban etc.

If a style of music comes along that is 100% original - how can anyone identify with it? Progression occurs when a generation is influenced by a previous generation, with elements of contemporary culture coming into play.

Example:

Can [psychadelic / minimal / with a hint of James Brown / Stockhausen] / Public Image Limited [Can with a hint of Dub Reggae] / Meat Beat Manifesto [Can and Pil with a dose of hip hop] / Prodigy [MBM with a dose of House / breakbeat] / etc.

No star here laces

15:27 / 30.07.03

That's utter bollocks, that is. 'White' music has largely consisted of various interpretations of punk since, ooh, about 1977 or so. And punk is basically a reinterpretation of traditional rock with a dose of metal. So I dunno whatchoo talkin' bout there, boy.