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PERSEPOLIS by Marjane Satrapi

 
  

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bio k9
01:51 / 18.07.03
This is a discussion thread, it may contain spoilers.



Sleazenation in the Comic Club? thread:
So in an attempt to revive this irregular feature and in a blatent attempt to try and get people to read what I think may prove to be the best graphic novel of the year I propose that the next comic club be on Marjane Satrapi's Persepolis - a riviting and engaging autobiographical of the author's childhood growing up in Iran at the time of the Islamic revoilution.

Ok, based on the above I picked up the book this afternoon. I've not had time to finish it yet so I'll let you start, SN.
 
 
sleazenation
10:52 / 19.07.03
Cool.

My plan is to have this as an ongoing discussion about the book that people can come and join in at whatever point. So on with the good stuff...

I'd heard about this comic a while back, and it was always one of those - sounds interesting - i'll keep an eye out type books you tend to forget about. But from the moment I picked it up I could not put the book down - I found it incredibly compelling especially little Marji chatting to God. Marji actually become even more compelling as she shifts from innocence towards adolesence -

The artwork is pure cartooning, perhaps a little simpler than art spiegelman's maus (comparisons are probably inevitable - and not entirely fair) and like that comic the simplicity is at its starkest in the places where the narrative deals with torture and other brutality.

I guess on of the areas i really find interesting are the perspectives of Marjane and her parents on their homeland as its veers into fundermentalism- Satrapi manages to show us the daily lives of Iranians in a simple clear fashion that appears to have eluded 10001 news programs.
 
 
LDones
21:15 / 19.07.03
I'm only able to get to my local once a week, but I'll do my best to grab a copy this Wednesday. Otherwise I may not be able to jump on board for a week or two while I find the thing on-line.
 
 
LDones
21:18 / 19.07.03
Screw it, I'll order it from Amazon.
 
 
sleazenation
07:45 / 20.07.03
Not sure if this is helpful but Persepholis in published by Random House (under the jonathan cape inprint) so its probably easier to order this from a regular bookshop...
 
 
The Falcon
08:43 / 20.07.03
Cheat notes.
 
 
LDones
01:22 / 23.07.03
Got my copy today. I'll get a chance to run through it tonight or tomorrow.
 
 
FinderWolf
01:36 / 23.07.03
Was I the only one who thought she looked kinda sexy in her picture? It's on her site. *blushes shamefully*
 
 
Mr Messy
10:57 / 24.07.03
This book is lovely. Very educational for me too, as my ignorance of Iran and Iran/Iraq conflict knows no bounds.
I very much like the mix of personal and political - I find this to be one of the only ways I can easily digest this sort of information.

One of my favourite parts of the book followed the family's maid and Marjane's affection for her, and her refusal to accept class division. What surprised me was that after this moving story the maid is never mentioned again. Almost as if Marjane forgot about her. I wondered if this says something about Marjane and class, and how she has adopted some of her culture's values without being totally aware of it.
 
 
sleazenation
11:41 / 24.07.03
Interesting flux - i have a number of theories on why the maid disappears...
(all off the top of my head without reference to the book - i'll check tonight)


1. The family let the maid go (off panel) perhaps because of all the 'trouble' she get Marji in to

2. The maid left the service of Marji's family in A way that Satrapi did not feel was relevant to the thrust of the narrative - once the Iran-Iraq war started its quite possible that the maid would have wanted or been needed to go back to her family

3. her story didn't fit the structure - typically people outside of her immediate family come into the story for a chapter or two at a time and serve an expository purpose - once the maid's tale had been told she disappears fromn the narrative -

Its also probably useful to note that the tale that the english version collects two volumes of material from the orginal 2 french albums Persepolis'. Volume 3 is out now in french and volume 4 is on its way (which hopefully means volume 2 is soon on its way for the UK release)


I'm also interested to see where people got their copies from. I picked mine up from my local comic shop, which stocks a very diverse range of material. I've seen it in Borders in the History section.

Now while I'm very happy to see comics escape a format induced ghetto and I guess this book will pick up a different group of casual readers being shelved in such a way I'm not sure people who have heard about it would necessarily find it easily by browsing...
 
 
Mr Messy
11:59 / 24.07.03
I'm not Flux, it's Mr Messy really. I'm just playing silly buggers - see conversation. I'll stop in a bit.

I got the book from Camden Waterstones, in their graphic novel section. It was also flagged as a staff pick - so quite well pushed there.
 
 
FinderWolf
15:06 / 24.07.03
Yeah, what's the deal with suddenly many people being called Flux = Their Old Names?? Very confusing to me. Anyhoo, all jokes aside about my finding the author of Persepolis attractive (I really do!), I do want to read this book; it sounds fascinating.
 
 
Unencumbered
12:26 / 25.07.03
I got my copy from Amazon UK. Boring but true.

I learnt a fair bit about Iran and its people that I didn't know before. The story is told in a simple, childlike (note: not 'childish') style - straightforward and plain, but with a kid's eye for odd detail, which works well.

I took great pleasure in watching the older Marji stand up to her school principal, to the point where she was expelled. Lovely.
 
 
dlotemp
03:33 / 28.10.03
Okay. I realize that this thread has suffered rot death but I just had an opportunity to read this wonderful book via my wonderful library system. Here's hoping some further discussion is revived.

Overall, I think this is the one of the best graphic novels I've read this year. The whole book is filled with the oppressive dread of ineventable history as the characters and their community careen towards the clerical revolution of Iran. I think the book accomplishes two very important tasks. First, it tells a compelling memoir. Second, it acts as a cultural bridge. Both tasks are equally important because the memoir would fail if it didn't reach across the abyss between Westerners and Iranians, and the bridge would lack all vigor if the story wasn't compelling. As such, I think it's a testament to the untapped potential in comics to tell stories. We don't see enough works trying accomplish the goals of PERSEPOLIS; the only other creator who comes close is Joe Sacco.

The art was deceptively simple. Deceptive in that an initial impression may be incredulous towards the basic positive/negative space and designs. It lacks texture and grays and depth. Yet Satrapi's art is perfect for this project. It eliminates unnecessary background clutter that would be distracting to Westerners; thereby focusing our attention on the immediate events. She is selective in what she shows us, never revealing too much of the surroundings, and the reader's mind doesn't wander. We are left to digest fully and completely what nuggets of culture Satrapi has deemed pertinent to the story. In addition to helping non-Iranian readers, it also mimics the ever-widening perceptions of a child who slowly begins to fill in the unspoken blanks of the world around her.

The story, or rather stories since the book is actually built around many 8 page stories, is methodical and sincere. There are one or two holes and the aforementioned disappearance of the maid is one of the notable examples. I don't think they detract from the work though; at least not so much that they render the piece crippled. The maid doesn't play a crucial role later one and so her story can affectively end where it does. Characters can just as easily enter the story as they leave and so the rapid coming and goings take on a rhythm as one goes on.

Some of my favorites bit include the Rod Stewart wannabes and their mullets - clear proof that Western Culture DOES threaten the Eastern world, Satrapi's uncle, and the children playing with their cowls. Her vignettes reveal something that the simple honesty and love of family can offer more clues to cultural happiness than religious oppression.

Satrapi and I are the same age and so perhaps I was more readily affected by her memoir. If offered a fascinating parallel to my life and a window into a life that doesn't seem all that dissimilar to my own. Yet the events surrounding her life are vastly different and far more violent. PERSEPOLIS gave me a look into an unseen corner of my life and times and I for one am grateful.

I look forward to more volumes in this series and wish that more comic creators and publishers could produce work of this high quality and sincerity.
 
 
LDones
07:57 / 28.10.03
Christ, I'd forgotten all about this thread - .

Yeah, I loved this book. There's something about it that's a turn-off to nearly everyone I’ve shown it to, but it's a really affecting read.

Satrapi's artwork is deceptively simple, and alternately reminds me of medieval European woodcuts and communist propaganda (I love the visual repetition in her more powerful panels, like the police at the burning of the movie theater (p.14 & 15).

I think the most striking thing about it for me was the realization that thinking about Iranian intellectuals seemed like a foreign concept to me when I began reading the book - it wasn't like any perspective the Middle East that I'd had. The thought of Iranian chidren wanting to be 'punk', listening to "We're The Kids In America" and having their parents smuggle Iron Maiden posters into the country for them was so striking & personally involving for me. I know it's idiotic to think that children aren't the same on that level the world over, but in the US you don't tend to hear much about life in Iran that doesn't involve bombs or politics. It didn’t read like anything I’ve ever read before or since - it was refreshing.

I read the whole thing in roughly one sitting, and was blown away by how clearly Satrapi gets across the emotional nuances of the story two languages removed from the source.

The ending was a bit abrupt, but appropriately so, I felt. I really hope the next parts to the story make it to the states sometime in the near future.
 
 
sleazenation
16:28 / 28.10.03
Yes, one of the book's great strength's is the way in which it humanizes its subjects - something that 1001 pieces of news footage have failed to do. Satrapi is like us... but something that is only touched on in the book is her royal connection - something that ensures a degree of privilidge and education that would have been sadly unavailable to most of her fellow citizens...
 
 
Krug
03:20 / 29.10.03
A bit peeved at the comparisons to Maus because it's not a fraction as powerful. To be honest I've never read anything quite like Maus and probably never will.

I did like this though, being from the eastern world it was charming to see the Michael Jackson jokes and the extremists. A lot of it was familiar so it had none of the novelty but the teachers did make me smile. Quite enjoyable and riveting but ultimately from an unbalanced perspective. Which of course is excusable because it's a memoir. Really want to read the next one.
I think this collects the first three french volumes though.
 
 
Krug
03:24 / 29.10.03
Knowing the amazing difference there is in the eastern world between the classes, where the poor are practically slaves (not maids like they are here), I wouldn't say that Satrapi earned my sympathy because everyone else opposed to the regime must have been a lot worse off.
 
 
illmatic
07:19 / 29.10.03
I picked this up about 6 weeks ago and pretty much read it one sitting so I've not really got anything too fresh to say about it, beyond I enjoyed it a great deal. It brought to life a segment of Iranian life I'd never thought about before, and gets you beyond all the sad sterotypes that we apply to the Arab nations. It was worth the price of admission for that alone. In additon it brought to life the human consequences of war and the accompanying social changes, seen from a child's perspective - it's really unique in that way. I think the comic form lets you see and feel this in a way different from a written memoir - I'm trying to think of how you'd write say, the opening sequence on the Veil, and keep it as light and from a growing child's persepctive. I loved the art as well - a simplicty which seemed to accompany the story really well. I'm glad this thread is here because it's brought to light a few things I'd missed. Will go back and reread I think.

Oh, and I turned it up in a second hand bookshop near where I live - tends to get a lot of review copies of things.
 
 
sleazenation
08:13 / 22.12.04
Thought I'd revive this thread to catch the eye of anyone who has read it since last year or anyone who has picked up/wants to talk about the second english volume.

I was sold on the second volume from the beginning but I did find the first half of the Book (Marji's European adventures) somehow less compelling than the stuff actually set in Iran itself.
 
 
bio k9
02:27 / 20.04.05
I still don't have Persepolis 2 but I wanted to bump this with a link to Andrew Arnold's review of Marjane Satrapi's new book Embroideries.

 
 
sleazenation
08:51 / 20.04.05
I didn't pick this up immediately when I saw it because I was a bit disappointed by the production values - the cheap looking silvery hardback looked pretty shitty and juvenile compared to persepolis - I don't see why they couldn't adopt the cardstock with french flaps approach of the French edition. I suppose the hardback element is Pantheon/jonathan cape's way of saying 'this is a proper book'...

But, yeah, I am feeling a little low today and a good gn is just the kind of pick me up i need...
 
 
sleazenation
22:28 / 13.09.05
Just bumping this thread in anticipation of a new group of people who are reading or planning on reading Persepolis… I could also talk about Embroideries here as well or do people thing that it would be better suited in its own thread.
 
 
LDones
22:48 / 13.09.05
The non-reveal reveal of what the title of 'Embroideries' is referring to had me chuckling. Satrapi has a wonderful and sincere eye, and the translation makes her language clear and unassuming. I think that first Persepolis book is still my favorite of her work, but it's all well worth reading.
 
 
sleazenation
06:27 / 14.09.05
Dude, When i tried to buy embroideries from a bookshop I was slightly amused and slightly annoyed to find that they were planning to shelve it in the craftwork section, based on its title...
 
 
matsya
07:05 / 15.09.05
I liked it. Thought it had some interesting things to say about alienation between men and women. Most of the problems that the women in Embroideries talked about seemed to me to be based on misunderstandings and miscommunications, perhaps ones fostered by their national culture.

Which isn't to say that the whole men vs women thing is isolated to Iranian culture at all, but my (admittedly very poor and anecdotal) understanding of relationships between men and women in less-than-moderate Islamic cltures is that they are quite dramatically separated in terms of the public and private spaces they inhabit, which would mean that in this scenario that that separation/division is more prominent (especially in the older generation of women) and thus the misunderstandings and miscommunications have less chance of being cleared up or corrected.

I'm just not a big believer in the differences between men and women being insurmountable or an obstacle to mutual understanding, so these stories intrigued me with their apparent acceptance of the opposite as a given.
 
 
sleazenation
14:23 / 17.09.05
I was a bit disappointed by its looser style - lots of page-long panels, but I understand that that is a symptom of the form it was originally comissioned in - a sort of freestyling cartoon format - I'm waiting for the translation of Poulet aux Prunes...
 
 
matsya
04:49 / 19.09.05
what's poulet et prunes?
 
 
sleazenation
06:42 / 19.09.05
It's the story of one of marji's great uncles - was released in france last year and won lots of awards and mainstram attention - lots of prominent displays of it in bookshops...
 
 
David Batty
14:37 / 11.12.06
An animated film based on the first book is due to be released next year.
 
 
sleazenation
19:09 / 11.12.06
Yes, and Satrapi has played a large role herself in getting it made, something that both came out of her recent talk at the ICA in London and was the cause of the cancellation of an earlier planned appearence.

Also, Poulet aux Prunes has now been translated into English and published in the UK/US as Chicken with Plums...
 
 
Aertho
17:11 / 18.12.07
The Trailer
 
 
Chew On Fat
14:04 / 19.12.07
I saw the movie last month at the ICA. The talented and lovely Mrs Fat loved the books and got the tickets as soon as she saw them advertised. We even brought along some of Satrapi's books as we thought she might have been there...

Now you are saying there was something of an issue about her appearance? Pray tell! We'd have loved to meet her!

The movie was great. It had some nice sequences. It is mainly Black and White which will probably make it a hard sell outside the Arthouse circuit. This is a shame because it would only be good for as many people in the west as possible to see this film. As mentioned upthread it is just as much a personal 'coming of age' film as an insight into life in a different political regime. All the same, we could just be marching to war with Iran at the moment, and there is nothing else out there that might open people's eyes to the fact that 'the Iranians are just guys like us!'. So this film has to carry that burden as well as being measured on its own merits.

The art is generally more detailed than the books. The movie doesn't work quite as well as the books because sometimes the 'camera-work' and soundtrack lingers at certain points in the story whereas the comic clips along.

In fact I realised during one of these less absorbing sequences in the movie that I've rarely read a more efficient comic-strip. The reader can absorb what each frame is conveying in an instant and then move on to the next one. This is helped by the traditional grid layout of the comics of course.

The movie gets some things better than the comics. There is a very original section which contrasts how Marji views a romantic relationship while she is in it with the more jaundiced view of hindsight. The contrast is really extreme to great comedic effect.

It'll be interesting to see if the film penetrates the mass culture very much. In contrast to an earlier poster I've found that Persopolis the comic is very accessible to non-comics readers. In fact it is the first comic I've ever loaned to my dear old Mum! She loved it.

Someone mentioned Satrapi's royal blood upthread. Watching the film it came home to me that she does show a certain snobbery along the way. The incidences she picks are very revealing of the overall situation in Iran, but of all the things to say, she takes delight in mentioning the fact that the guy who refuses their visa used to clean their windows. So what, really? His former occupation doesn't have much bearing on the fact that he turned out to be an arsehole!

Middle class families sometimes think they are being charitable just for paying someone a subsistence wage to do some unpleasant little jobs for them. The window-cleaner's moral obligation to them ended once he'd seen to their fenestration.
 
 
Foust is SO authentic
17:22 / 19.12.07
Was I the only one who thought she looked kinda sexy in her picture? It's on her site. *blushes shamefully*

You are not wrong.
 
 
FinderWolf
03:32 / 20.12.07
embarrassing comment aside, I've just seen the trailer for this and it looks amazing. I know the film did really well at Cannes and impressed a lot of people. A friend of mine who works in publishing for a big company, who doesn't normally like comics or cartoon stuff, saw an advance screening of the movie and said it moved her to tears, she absolutely loved it. (I realize there may be a discussion thread for the movie of this; in which case I may need to move this post and put in the Film & TV thread...)
 
  

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