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Signs and Omens

 
 
C.Elseware
13:01 / 17.07.03
Since I joined Barbelith there seems to always be a thread on the go about "Big Vague Events" coming soon. The "May Warning" thread being a prime example. (also "ShitStorm Times Pattern?", "The Novelty Spike" etc.)

1. With over six billion people in the world there is at any time an unexplained miracle, a mind numbing attrocity, a ground breaking development in technology, a new form of art etc. It's easy to make a vague prediction, and impossible(ish) to make an accurate one.

My parents told me that the numerology in the old testiment foretold September the 11th. Which they obviously didn't know on September the 8th, the first time I went to the USA, or I hope they'd have mentioned it.

Growing up in the evangelical, fundamentalist christian worldview it was END TIMES all the time. Always looking for signs that the end was near. My parents still get excited about badness against Israel 'cus when the armies of the world attack Israel then the kingdom of heaven is practically at hand, baby.

Q. Is there any point in listening or making these big vague prophesies?

2. Sept 11th, GWBush, GM Crops, Mobile Phones, AIDS, AIDS Drugs, Afganistan, the Internet:

Q. Is the world

[a] getting slowly better

[b] getting slowly worse

[c] in a constant cycle of up then down. If so what is the period(s) of this cycle.

[d] the tune remains the same, only the words change.

My answer would be that it's almost impossible to measure, but I think it's getting better. I got an education, I have access to a vast variety of almost uncensored information and most people at least understand the concept of being individually responsible for the world they live in, even if it's going to be a few hundred years before the message really sinks in.

3. Magick is change in conformance with will. Can magick make the world "better"? Should it? Do you really want the world to be better, and are you willing to pay the costs. Which is more effective; lobbying your MP, recycling or attending a pagan give gaia a big hug type ritual?
 
 
cusm
13:32 / 17.07.03
Ok, rant time, as this has come up a lot for me lately.

I'm so through with End Times prophesies. I grew up with them, I spent years in constant fear of Y2K, and devoted entirely too much of my attention to them in the past. I'm done with them.

Prophesy is a subtle and dangerous yet powerful form of magick, a means of social control for centuries to come. Just as the church is a form of control over the people through the formation of a state, so too does prophesy solidify this control, and justify the continuance of the state which supports it. Religions are states. Prophesy enables the state through justification and promise of what is to come. Men fulfill the prophesy in hopes of giving it more power. It comes to pass ultimately because we cause it to come to pass. Or it does not when we refuse to participate in it. The choice remains ours.

I have studied many prophesies, and they all speak of the same things. Times of change will occur, and there will be unrest. This is always true, for there is ever change and change ever comes with trouble and unrest from those who resist it. The specifics vary, but this remains consistent. Men fear the future and what it may bring, for they know that the world of today will one day pass to the world of tomorrow, just as we pass from life to life.

The other major theme is a closure, a final judgement. Men can not grasp the concept of an eternal and unending universe, for our lives are not unending. So, as below so above, we see our own deaths in the ending of the universe, justifying the unacceptable loss of our own selves to time.

We do not wish to accept death. It seems unfair that this existance should be followed by oblivion. So we make for ourselves dreams of a world to follow in order to accept this thing which we can not understand nor prevent. And in passing ourselves, the world too must pass, so we tell of the time this will occur. But the world does not pass, only the states we build within it. The world moves on, and new cultures rise and tell of the time their gods will destroy them too. And men hide from life and give their will to others in the promise of reward following death.

I reject this thinking. I reject the politics of death, the religions of death, the basis of death in all our works. I live, and I choose life. I do not wait in hopes of a deux ex machina to set the world right with a single
glorious stroke. I understand that this is given to us to manifest, and work toward that end. I live and work to improve this life. I do not forsake the sacred gift of life given to me in order to submit to a state of control which promises me rewards after death for my service to that state in life. I reject this machine of control over the mind and spirit of men in all its forms. If there is to be a Final Battle, my side in it is in seeing that this battle never happens at all.

The world ends every day, and begins again upon the next. Get over it. Stop feeding the prophesies. They are magick that is set to doom us. There is no end, no death, only change.
 
 
Spyder Todd 2008
13:35 / 17.07.03
I think number 1 and 2 are close enough that I'll give them the same paragraph. I think that time, the world, the universe, whatever you want to call it, has a pattern. It sprials upwards through history, and if you pay attention, you can see what is coming. Regardless of precognition, (which is another subject to discuss altogether) anone who pays enough attention to the world around them and reads enough history can fairly accurately predict what's coming in the next few year. Orson Scott Card predicted a quasi-internet back in the mid eighties in Ender's Game. Anyone can do it, and people do it without realizing it.
With number three, I'd asay yes to all the above. Can mgic change things? Absolutly. Look at the difference in pop culture from 1995 to 1998. Things can and will be changed by magic. And that's great. It's not so much "will things be better", it's "will things be different". And I think they will. Which is fine.

Which is more effective; lobbying your MP, recycling or attending a pagan give gaia a big hug type ritual?

I'd say none is neccisarily better. If you think something will help, then do it. You can do all three if you'd like. But hugs are always nice.
 
 
Spyder Todd 2008
13:42 / 17.07.03
"Nothing ever ends."
-Alan Moore

I don't believe in beginings or endings myself, cusm. Change is the natural order of things. And, as I've pointed out to many a person, there are two questions one must ask of a prophecy. If it did happen, did someone cause it to happen to fulfill the prophecy or wouldit have happened anyway? And if it didn't happen, did someone make sure it wouldn't happen so that the prophecy wouldn't be fulfill, or was the prophet just a stupid asshole?

I leave you all to ponder these wise words of mine.
 
 
C.Elseware
13:49 / 17.07.03
csum: The world ends every day, and begins again upon the next.

I had one of those nasty philosophical turns that tends to happen know and then when you read too much of the wrong (right?) books. "The Golden Barge" left me in a complete state of hoplessness, realising that I could never really win, that ultimately I'm doomed to fall short of perfection in anything I try. Not a good headspace.

I spent quite a bit of effort in trying to debug my head to see if I had a crossed wire somewhere. I didn't want to just ignore the feeling and hope it'd go away, I wanted to get to the other side and take away it's power.

Much head-hacking/meditation later I ended up with this phrase, which seemed to be the antidote for me:

How can the ends justify the means? There are no ends.

Which is a bit esoteric for me, but I figure the ol' HGA must have been feeling extra pretentious that day.
 
 
illmatic
14:04 / 17.07.03
Yay for you Cusm. Good rant.

Elseware – just going to give a short answer on this one, major reason for this is that I am very bored of the subject after the May Warning thread. This is not a slag off or attack on you, it’s just one of those things that makes me shrug my shoulders and go “whatever” – people are always going to elevate their own problems into cosmic dramas, unfortunately, or a load of wiffly vague bollocks which means they can’t get caught out. I’m pretty convinced it’s all these prophecies are bollocks,. I think we got a lot of intelligent criticisms of this position in that thread, though my personal tolerance for them has gone way down.

This isn’t meant to sound uncompassionate to people who’re having a shit time either, but I think the best you can do is keep your feet on the ground and try and manage as best you can – there’s a million and one techniques, helplines, organisations out there – just take it a day at a time, try and sort it out things as best you feel able, talk to people – what are the benefits of blowing it up into cosmic tragedy? You get out what you put in, the worse thing about these prophecies is they are self fulfulling, in that it’s easier for us to slot incoming information into these paranoid patterns rather than admit we were wrong.
 
 
*
16:46 / 17.07.03
The Watched Pot Society would like to encourage you all to do your duty in preventing the apocalypse by believing and spreading all manner of apocalyptic rumours.

"For the Day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night..."

(A cloaked figure with an Italian accent urged me to pass this message along. I wondered why he was picking me, since I'm not in the least Christian, and he said it had more credibility that way. Go figure.)
 
 
osymandus
17:06 / 17.07.03
I feel its more to do with the 6 billion people (and their billions of ancestors), groups of whom made plans which in turn were laid and come about as a consequence of actions by the inhabitants of this (and sometimes ) other worlds .

Just because you dont believe in destiny dosnt mean to say some one wont make the choice of following their own free will !
 
 
Salamander
18:34 / 17.07.03
The novelty theory dose predict ebb and flow, and if you notice, when I predicted july 8th or whatever, it was vague because the theory supplies a when, not a what, and that generally, novelt (interconnectedness) will peek, or habit will peek, I never said "bad" things were going to happen, just something would happen. Be that as it may, you are totaly right, prophecy's a dicey charletans game all around, better to ignore such hacks when then scream sky is falling. And now that I've been exposed, I will slink into the darkness and partake of no hot dog buns.
 
  
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