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Cruel or unusual? The Running of the Bulls in Pamplona, Northern Spain.

12:22 / 14.07.03

The Festival of St Fermin in Pamplona, which is characterised by the daily dash through the streets by testosterone-fuelled youths (and not-so youths) ahead of a small phalanx of rampaging bulls.

A celebration of human frailty and the spirit of adventure, conjuring up the two-fisted machismo of dear old Ernest Hemingway?

Or a cruel abuse of animals (they get skewered at the end of it) which is no better than kicking a donkey to death?

Anyone here done it?

Would anyone here do it?

12:25 / 14.07.03

Its a clear case of animal cruelty that is justified by appeals to tradition. I can't really see how one can argue with that except by dismissing it.

13:44 / 14.07.03

From the official "Festival of San Fermín" website:

Between 1924 and 1997 14 people have died and more than 200 been injured by the bulls.

Official rules include
it is expressly forbidden:

4.- To hide oneself before the release of the bulls in corners, dead angles or doorways of houses or establishments located throughout the length of the course.

5.- To leave open the doors of the houses along the course, the owners or tenants of the said property being responsible for this.

Why would you leave your door open with a maddened bull and a crowd of hooligans ready to run right in?

8.- To wear clothes or shoes which are not appropriate for the run.
My stilettos are out then. Don't get the giant chickens and rhino suits you associate with the London Marathon then? Sheesh, spoilsports.

11.- To grab onto, harass or mistreat the animals or obstruct their exit enclosure by any action during the amateur bullfight.
Nope, wouldn't want any animals mistreated, oh no no no...

Poor bloody bulls. No women ever run it then? No mention of gender of participants in the rules. Would hope they'd have more sense.

14:07 / 14.07.03

The macho tradition of the Run states that no women are to take part, but they do.

18:44 / 14.07.03

Sensibly shod women only, I hope.

19:01 / 14.07.03

Well, there's also some festival in Spain which culminates in the dropping of a live goat from a church tower....

Maybe animal abuse is endemic to Spanish Catholicism?

*

19:18 / 14.07.03

There's a horribly (in?)appropriate Snapple commercial where I live which involves inexplicably animate and partially-clothed snapple bottles fleeing a mass of stampeding guinea pigs with horns. I've seen it more times than I care to count, and still when it comes on all my housemates file in from different parts of the house, stare in shock and befuddlement, and then slowly resume what they were doing, without yet being able to put into words the trauma of the experience.

(If you really want, you could go here to see it, but I wouldn't advise it.)

20:23 / 14.07.03

For us chicken-hearts, the lovely Spaniards also have the vegetarian cruelty-free version: The Festival of the Tomatina in Bunyol.

Half naked Latin men, exchanging fluids in public. You even have to crush the tomatoes first so nobody gets hurt by a hard, whole tomato flung unwisely. Awwww.

The Fifth Columnist

23:50 / 14.07.03

I spent 6 months living in Spain a few years ago...but did NOT run with the bulls, wouldn't have done it even if I'd had the chance to...the prospect of a horn up my @$$ was not especially appealing...

Spanish Catholicism cruel to animals? There's nothing Christian about it. It's a pagan ritual, the origins of which are lost in prehistory. Look at the frescos on Minos, and all the other places that the symbol of the bull crops up in the ancient Mediterranian. If Homer were around he'd call it a a sacrifce to the Sun God, and he'd be right. The Spanish Catholics saved their cruelty for the Jews and Indians...

That said: pagan sacrifice or no, how is bullfighting more cruel than strapping the animal to a conveyor belt and crushing its skull with a sledgehammer, as occurs in most stockyards? It's hamburger either way... (P.S. yeah, they get sent to the butcher's shop after being killed in the bullring...today's special, free-range beef.)

I think it's the presentation of the event as entertainment that really disturbs people. IMHO, if you eat meat but it disturbs you to watch an animal die, you're a little bit of a hypocrite.

15:21 / 15.07.03

Do the bulls actually get skewered at the end of the run?

Hmm. Part of me is saying, "At least they get a fighting chance to take a few humans with them."

17:18 / 15.07.03

Indeed they do, grant, although they only have a few minutes' liberty in which to express their fear and rage. This year a Brit called David Biggins who was gored in the buttocks. Eejit.

17:42 / 15.07.03

A bit threadrotty, but still regarding bulls:

Isn't there some style or school of bullfighting in which the bull is not killed? I vaguely remember there being differences between Spanish, Portuguese and Mexican bullfighting.

I know anything involving picadors ends up badly for the bull.

06:09 / 16.07.03

Grant - the bulls do get skewered at the end of the run... kind of. The run takes place at 8am and then the bulls are corralled in the stadium until evening when they take part in a bullfight. In that way the whole shooting match is no different from any other bullfight, but St Fermin does get the publicity because of the bull run in the morning in which the bulls do get the chance to gore some idiots before they become big bowls of bull stew.

And yes, I have done the run.

06:44 / 16.07.03

My housemate is Spanish and his native village's particular brand of animal cruelty is similar to Pamplona, only with a much more lazy twist. I'm not sure what happens to the Bull afterwards though, but he loves it anyway, saying how they get looked after really well etc etc.

Anyway, the village is on a hill by the sea in Valencia. It has a small quay where most of the people converge on the big day. The bull is released from the top of the hill and people run in front of it down the hill towards the sea. It runs down the main street towards all the people standing at the bottom of the hill. As the bull is almost there (and going to fast to charnge direction), the people move either left or right, leaving the bull with nothing to do but fall into the sea.

It's quite a sight apparently.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

08:34 / 16.07.03

I've always found this horribly cruel. (I'm not gonna bore everyone with my "tormenting and hurting animals for fun just proves the depressing truth that we as a species are just generally bad, as is the Universe itself on and on unto..."... no, I'm not. Don't worry). But I do always allow myself a quiet (well, okay, loud "punching fists in the air") kind of moment whenever one of these pricks gets twatted by the bulls.

I grew up in Somerset. It's common knowledge that when there are bulls in the vicinity, you DON'T make loud noises, run about, assemble mobs, etc., unless you're seriously asking for a horn up the jacksy (as it were).

Though Xoc's given me an idea... anyone up for tomato-related Spanish fun next year? I've ALWAYS thought that looked cool.