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Politicians that you trust.

Ronald Thomas Clontle

01:05 / 25.11.01

Question:

Are there any politicians that you really trust, and feel are genuinely interested in the welfare and the future of their constituents? Who are they? Why do you feel this way?

Also, are there any politicians whom you feel some degree of respect for in spite of having opposing viewpoints and practices than that of your personal convictions? What about them draws you in?

07:24 / 26.11.01

It depends what you mean by trust. In the UK, a politician who I would trust to do what he thinks is right and act in a conscientious manner, would be Tony Benn, but I don't necessarily think he'd be the best politician.

The resistable rise of Reidcourchie

07:42 / 26.11.01

John Major and I'm not joking neither.

07:42 / 26.11.01

tony benn is great but stopped being an mp at the last election so he could devote more time to politics - Tam Dayal, gets a shout from me

14:00 / 26.11.01

The Lib. Dems. seem to be vaguely honest at least, even if they're a bit ineffectual..

..aside from that, um, nope, none.

15:00 / 26.11.01

With regards to teh comment about trusting John Major, I presume that you are aware of his Millitary-Industrial employment with Carlysle (spell check)corp.
Which hat does he wear when he is out and about, ambassador of UK or salesman for guns?

16:17 / 26.11.01

This is a really tricky topic isn't it. Hard to say anything without sounding crypto-blairite/evil tory/ineffectual liberal. Respect to Tony Benn. He obviously has real principles and sticks to them. He was never going to get high enough to exercise them though was he. Politics is the art of the possible, and most of those who have gotten to the top have had necessarily to sacrifice some of their principles.
Speaking personally all of the people I knew who were involved in student politics had big ulterior motives. Ambition, ladder climbing, etc. I wouldn't want any of them to be making decisions on my behalf.
It gets depressing if you think about it for too long.

16:34 / 26.11.01

Damn...my post flaming Ralph Nader disappeared into the ether...

I'll keep it short and sweet:

Ambition for power and other venal motivations are built into the structure of democracy and specifically the US government. The trick is to balance the venal motivations of individuals against one another. See the Federalist papers.

Idealists are uniquely unsuited for politics and even harmful. A person as inflexible in principles as NAder would be piss poor leader. I think, given his inability to see any issue in terms other than "black and white" the man is largely insane, as his comments that it made no difference whether Bush or Gore won the election make clear to any thinking person.

Give me pragmatisim any day!

The Damned Yankee

16:40 / 26.11.01

The following is a list of politicians whom I feel are absolutely trustworthy:

Thank you.

16:55 / 26.11.01

quote:The following is a list of politicians whom I feel are absolutely trustworthy:

Thank you.

Could any succesful politician be worthy of a reasonable person's trust? Is being untrustworthy a peril of the job?

17:36 / 26.11.01

Of course you don't vote for a politician because you trust them, you vote for the least worst arsehole out of the arseholes that are standing and then you keep writing to that arsehole telling him what you expect of him- you keep on his (or her) back.

It may not be easy but hey, that's democracy.

pointless and uncalled for

17:44 / 26.11.01

In contracdiction to the popular stance, I actually trust a lot of politicians.

To me it's a matter of knowing what you can trust a politician to do.

i.e. you can trust a certain politician to attach a rider to an act that he's going to propose, or you can trust a politician to follow a particular issue leader.

I wouldn't trust them with the keys to my house, but then I would trust many of you either.

17:45 / 26.11.01

quote: then you keep writing to that arsehole telling him what you expect of him- you keep on his (or her) back.

That would only really matter if they won the vote and became an MP wouldn't it. So your choice is going to be further narrowed down to the least worst areshole who has a chance of winning. Democracy.

19:44 / 26.11.01

not at all, you vote for the least worst arsehole, and get on the back of whoever wins to get him to be less of an arsehole.

We're The Great Old Ones Now

09:00 / 27.11.01

A politician's job is to gain not trust, but acceptance.

Note carefully how I avoid any mention of governing...

I trust thinkers. I don't expect them to be perfect, but I'm prepared to engage in the trust business. I trust leaders - such as soldiers who have been promoted for merit - to be what they are and act on that basis. I may not always agree, but I'll engage with them on that level as well. I'm prepared to trust people in societal roles of stewardship - doctors and so on - which is why I get very angry with them when the disappoint...like the evil sod who breached confidentiality on a friend of mine recently and cheerfully talked to her parents about her sexlife.

Who will burn in my personal Hell of Being Dragged Ass-first through the Petrified Porcupine Forest at the hot end of the Pit of Incendiary Discomfort.

But I digress...

Politics is not a process for choosing leaders and trustworthy figures, alas. At least, not as we do it. Trust is evaporating in the context of politics and nations...at least here.

Ulrich Beck is fascinating on this - 'Risk and Trust'.

Thoughts getting more random as the Witching Hour approaches - more tomorrow.

Ronald Thomas Clontle

09:00 / 27.11.01

While I don't always agree with his policies involving policing and the economy, I really think that Rudy Gulliani has always been working in the interest of the general public in NYC, around NYC, and the how the rest of the world relates to NYC. The city is definitely a better place 8 years after he came into office, and the decrease in crime and corruption in the city can all be directly attributed to his policies... I really think the guy cares about his constituents, even if some people get screwed over ..It is true that Broken Windows theory that Gulianni's administration had adopted targets blacks, women, homosexuals, and other minorities; and that it overprotects some communities while leaving ghettos and other bad neighbourhoods in a position of only being policed in a way that is over-the-top... Nevertheless, it has worked, cracking down on all the 'quality-of-life' crimes did result in a lower crime rate, and boosted corporate interest and tourism in a way that really was positive for the city.

And who's going to say that cracking down and nearly eliminating organized crime is a bad thing, or was against public interest?

Red Cross Iodized Salt

09:00 / 27.11.01

quote:I really think that Rudy Gulliani has always been working in the interest of the general public in NYC

I dunno...evertime I see a 'No Dancing Allowed' sign in a bar that has kickass music and no cabaret license, I forget that he's Saint Rudy now. Granted, I didn't live in NYC eight years ago - but the increased quality of (middle class) life seems to have been at the expense of the marginalized and under-represented.

Back on topic, I come from a political family and have met a number of individuals who I feel are genuinely interested in the welfare and the future of their constituents. More often then not, too much of these peoples time and energy is spent fighting with members of their own organization. The result is that they often have to compromize their ideals in order to get a quarter of what they want done.

I've always felt that that's problem with democracy in general. The elected have to try to please too many people to be truly effective.

09:00 / 27.11.01

You're not meant to trust politicians. They are people you appoint to do a job.

And like any other employee you have to keep them under scrutiny, give them feedback and guidance and dismiss them when they fuck up.

Trusting politicians is a betrayal of democracy. And what they would prefer.

09:00 / 27.11.01

Here are some interesting figures in yesterdays UK press:
1974 4 out of 10 people said they trusted politicians
it remains at or above 33% until 1991
in 1996 it drops to 22%
it is now down to an all time low of 16%

00:31 / 28.11.01

Uh... Gulliani didn't lower crime rates.

William Bratton's policies did. Then Gulliani started taking credit for it, Bratton protested and got kicked out of his position as Police Commissioner.

To keep up his ruse of "I lowered the crime rate" Gullianni started his quality of life crackdowns. He cracked down on squeegee men, methadone clinics, dancing, nightclubs, adult stores and other stuff. But the people who he REALLY went after were the pot smokers.

Oh and under Gullianni crime rates have actually been going up. One year it's robbery, next year it's rape, this year it's, I believe, murder.

Oh and this is just my opinion, under Gullianni most of the city's government stuff became corrupt.

19:39 / 28.11.01

Granted, I didn't live in NYC eight years ago - but the increased quality of (middle class) life seems to have been at the expense of the marginalized and under-represented. – Vote for Iron Man Wang

Yes. I agree totally. Thanks.

20:27 / 28.11.01

Oooh difficult one, well I'd go with Charles Kennedy (lib dem)for him stating outright that his party would seriously consider legalising canabis in a interview on ITV. But once again that's someone who isn't in power.
Lembik Optik also of the Lib Dems seems to genuinely care about stuff, and he worries about stuff like near earth asteroids.
Used to trust Ken Livingston, but I've reconsidered that since he actually became mayor.

Our Lady of The Two Towers

11:25 / 30.11.01

quote:Originally posted by Buk:
Respect to Tony Benn. He obviously has real principles and sticks to them. He was never going to get high enough to exercise them though was he.

Ummm, just want to check. You do know he was in the Cabinet in the early 70s (IIRC)? But he was top at the 'Not in my Name' demo the other week...

19:21 / 30.11.01

No I wasn't actually aware of that. It was just a throwaway remark, but perhaps my ignorance backs up the original point.