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The Shield

 
 
Scrambled Password Bogus Email
05:55 / 09.07.03
Oh, yes, it has returned.

Got to dash, but back later....

Oh yes.
 
 
Jub
08:34 / 09.07.03
I haven't seen a lot of this as I can only get channel 5 some of the time. However, I saw a rather disturbing epsiode in which Vic (?) the love child of grant mitchel and bruce willis, beat up a paedophile.

They had this guy in custody whom they *knew* was holding a little girl who would die (from starvation or exposure or something) unless they got hold of her, but they didn't have anything on him and he was being a tricky little suspect.

The guy in charge - who doesn't get on well with Vic - has three options. To let Mr sensitive cop man use his psychology on this man and hope he tells them, let him go and follow him until they find the girl, as woman cop suggests, or see Vic.

Next thing you see is Vic walking into the room with a brown paper bag and Mr Paedo is sitting there all smug like saying "you got nothing on me copper, see, see!" and vic pulls out a bottle of whisky, a phone directory, a stanley knife and other assorted random objects. Mr Paedo gets worried and enquires "what is all this stuff?". Vic explains that these these are what is going to make him tell him where the girl is. Then you see the cameras to the interview room being turned off.

Vic gets the address and they save the girl YAY!
However - he remains to be a nasty piece of work, despite being lovely to his family etc - I bit like Tony Soprano in this respect. I have really trouble with the concept of a baddie who is not in bad-faith.

Makes for good telly mind.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
14:25 / 09.07.03
Season 2 of The Shield just started last week in the UK, and last night was the second episode. I love it.

I think it really explodes the "cop on the edge" cliche - Vic Mackie isn't a maverick who shows those stuffed shirts at City Hall how to deal with crime (although I'm sure he thinks of himself in that way sometimes): he's a murderer. The fact that every now and again either his intentions or the results of his actions may be called "good" doesn't really take away the fact that he's not the good guy in any sense. He's just the protagonist, and I'm reasonably convinced that his story will turn out to be something of a Greek tragedy.

One of my favourite things about The Shield is the way that almost all of the characters are morally compromised, or dubious, or at the very least less than likeable, in ways that are different to Vic - so that The Shield doesn't fall into the trap of portraying Mackie as a class stereotype (the physically brutal, blue-collar 'bad cop'). The Captain is a politician, whose desire to clean up corruption was really only ever motivated by a belief that this would look good on his CV - he's now more interested in making sure Mackie *doesn't* get exposed. Mackie's 'unit' of overgrown frat-boys may have occasional flashes of conscience, but on the whole they're so idiotic, greedy and feckless that they make him look good. Dutch (every now and again as pathetic and creepy as Mackie thinks he is) often puts his own intellectual satisfaction and desire to close cases over the safety of the public - resulting, in the case of episode 1 of this series, in appalling consequences. Then there's the gay black Christian trying to suppress his sexuality in a manner that includes therapeutic activities such as beating the shit out of drag queens... These are not heroic people - I just hope they don't become too sugar-coated as the series goes on.
 
 
Scrambled Password Bogus Email
20:43 / 09.07.03
Yes, yes, yes

It is, for a mainstream, large broadcaster (HBO I think) genuinely gray and morally ambiguous (tm). That's what has me hooked. The effect is like a more thoughtful and sanitised 'Man Bites Dog' As you say, though he is the 'protaaginist', and as such, earns your sympathy and ,er, 'grudging admiration', it is so well written as to regularly jar you back to the point that this is not a good guy, or necessary maverick, or end justifies the means kind of character - he is an exploitative, crooked fuck. And what a fucking actor! That episode 2, I was fucking spellbound.

OK, enough with the hyperbole, but this show has never yet tripped me up or made me go 'nah, silly!' the way so much American big budget fiction does (see :24).

The mutts bastard nutts.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
21:25 / 09.07.03
I keep meaning to watch this and keep forgetting. Is there an ongoing continuity that's going to make things awkward trying to pick it up now, or will I be able to jump straight in without having missed too much of consequence?
 
 
Jub
07:01 / 10.07.03
As I remember, each episode is pretty much self-contained although there are themes and stories which run throughout the series. Definitely worth a look at any rate.
 
 
Scrambled Password Bogus Email
07:17 / 10.07.03
What did you make of the Arab In America / post 9-11 nod in Episode 2??

Exploitative or well woven?

I thought it was well done, and actually jumped when the cop (I forget her name) shot the guy - it was rightly awful and shocking.

But what about the script? "No, you're a suspect because 19 people who look like your twin brother killed 3000 Americans".

Comments?
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
07:49 / 10.07.03
Well, there's never been anything in that character's behaviour to suggest she *wouldn't* feel that way about Arab-Americans and 9/11. I thought it was very well done that her partner gave her something of a questioning look at that point (I'm sure he's no fan of racial profiling), but said a hell of a lot about his own issues with one line, addressed to the Arabic guy: "stop being a victim". Hmmm.
 
 
Scrambled Password Bogus Email
09:44 / 10.07.03
And, in all fairness, the guy was waving a gun about and acting fairly hysterical. I thought the scene following with Aceveda and the civilian auditor was right on the money - the observation an Arab guy, the whole street was still and silent, whereas the tensions from the iots could easily have fired back up again had the African American woman been the corpse.

The writing and cast are just soooo top notch. And Mackay's Mrs. is investigating him, as well as Claudette and the civilan auditor.

Baldy goin' dooooooowwwwwwwnnnnnnnnn...
 
 
.
10:01 / 10.07.03
I love The Shield, although I can't help feeling that this series is not quite as good as the last one (though what do I know, it's only a few episodes in). Reasons being that:

1) The two uniform cops are somewhat marginalised, which is a shame because they were pretty solid last series.

2) Mackie teaming up with Aceveda looks to break last series' key dynamic. Who is going to be Mackie's key adversary now? Dutch? (Although I have to say that I would enjoy that). Or will we see the alliance break down?

3) So far at least there hasn't been a scene to really set up Mackie as villian, at least not like the key moment last series where he shot the cop. The strength of The Shield has that Mackie is a distinctly unlikable "hero".

So moral ambiguity, corruption and violence = good series. But let's be honest, it's not Oz is it?
 
 
Jub
11:06 / 10.07.03
Ohhhh yes. Supreme Allah et al. -although I heard tell that blokey (mercutio out of Romeo and Juliet) did him away with an egg or something.
 
 
Scrambled Password Bogus Email
09:00 / 11.07.03
No, not OZ, but Amen to that. It's on too late when you have a baby.
 
 
bjacques
14:29 / 11.07.03
Predictably (though based on only one data point), a cop I met loved the show, pretty much on a "cops from the id" level.
 
 
Scrambled Password Bogus Email
21:44 / 11.07.03
Interesting, cos they are not portrayed as a tight, likeable team, but a nest of corruption and depraved power-to-commerce cynicism.

I like this angle of the Vic character...he not only acknowledges the endemic situation and intractible difficulty of a "war on drugs" - he has decided to use it to his personal economic advantage.

He accepts the inevitability of dealers, but has opted to use his power for 'greed' - though he is a total loving 'family man'. The dyslexia / autism thing with his kid was really well done to evoke sympathy, then his blatant power broking, murderous madness, with the top level guy shooting his snitch, and his complicity in disguising the crime...great script writing.

He is a tragic figure...I wait with baited breath (wow, fan or what?)
 
 
that
07:26 / 16.07.03
Is this supposed to be a comedy of sorts? I watched it for the first time last night and, I mean, the acting is often shite - and what's with the kind of nerdy police bloke who was dealing with the severed arm case? It just doesn't ring true, at all...and really doesn't seem to be played straight half the time, despite being remarkably unpleasant. What am I missing?
 
 
Scrambled Password Bogus Email
07:50 / 16.07.03
Bizarre...Lat nights episode was really out of the ordinary. Some of the dialogue was really naff, and yep, the nerdy guy had a shit storyline and none too convincing script to work with.

It was the first pony episode I've watched. None of the usual complexity and depth. But then, it guest featured Carl Weathers. Hmm.

Don't give up, Cholister, it really is the biz. When it hasn't got Carl "Everything I touch Turns To Shit" Weathers in it.
 
 
that
07:56 / 16.07.03
Mm, ok. I felt like I was watching a different show to the one you're all talking about, so I suppose that explains it. I might give it another go...
 
 
.
11:17 / 16.07.03
Yeah last night's episode was a bit pants really, at least in terms of the characters' credibility. The Dutch being taken in by the psycho girl just didn't ring true at all, unless this ineffectual geek thing is supposed to be some development from his slimely creep act last series... It's not like he was lacking in personality flaws last series either.

That all said, I think that there is an element of black comedy in The Shield, at least in as much as Oz is a black comedy. So perhaps these pantomime turns are deliberate after all.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
11:55 / 16.07.03
I actually really liked last night's episode, although I found the Dutch storyline deeply disturbing. (Even though I could see the reveal shot of the girl in the bathroom coming as soon as the camera started to follow the guy inside his apartment, it was still horrible...)

There's often a really, really fucked-up streak of dark humour in the programme, and I've remarked before that it is to American cop shows what Cardiac Arrest was to UK medical dramas. I think the best word is probably hysteria - this sense that everything is going to hell in a handbasket, and the people who in theory are preventing this are at best struggling to contain it and buckling under the pressure, at worst letting it slip by unchallenged or making things worse.

Watching this episode, I was reminded again how Dutch works as The Shield's distorted mirror version of the detective-as-intellectual archetype. In Homicide: Life On The Street you had guys like Munch, Pembleton and Baylis - gusy who you felt had read a book or two, were always expounding on their theories, fitting the pieces of the puzzle together, and taking obvious relish in using their intelligence and psychological skills to outfox suspects in the interview room. Dutch is one of them, but come out wrong - or maybe it's the world he operates in that's wrong. For him to misread this case so badly is a screw-up further than we've seen in the past, but I don't see how it's in any way inconsistent to his behaviour last season - just because one of his slightly obsessive theories and hunches turned out right and he caught a major serial killer, doesn't negate the fact that he's blindly arrogant. (Incidentally, that's twice in three episodes there have been horrific consequences as a result of Dutch fucking up - I'm sure we'll see this take a toll.) I have no problem believing that that girl could pull the wool over his eyes - he has real issues with women, and a huge 'white knight' complex - but also, what I thought was clear from this episode is that Dutch enjoys the mindgames of interrogation just a bit too much. He enjoyed what in this case turned out to be a roleplay, with a sexual and specifically power-based subtext. For me that made up for the usual annoying association of BDSM with non-consensual torture, kidnapping and murder (or it may even have been the point - bear in mind that this all came from Dutch's mouth, and with relish, before he got played).

In terms of the Mackie plot: I really liked the sense of diminishing returns - Joe did some bad things, but he claims never to lose any sleep over that, so I doubt he ever shot another cop in the head (and I don't believe for a moment that Mackie would ever tell him about that). There's the sense that Mackie is losing it earlier than his mentor did - at the least, Joe's warning not to turn out like him has come too late. And if Joe's the ghost of cop shows past, then Shane is the future, and what a terrifying prospect that is. As the woman he assaults and threatens to rape says, Shane is pretty much an animal, without even that much in the way of traces of 'good intentions' beyond some kind of loyalty to the pack. And yet the bond between him and Mackie is clearly stronger than we might have thought, and Vic is willing to continue this surrogate father-son relationship and continue passing on the increasingly fucked-up heritage... I thought all that was great stuff. Bad acting? Couldn't see it that often here.

Mind you, I find CSI unwatchable despite really liking the premise and William Petersen, so our tastes may be incompatible, Cholister.

(PS: I'm also completely petrified of what might happen to Vic's family now that they're back home. Once Amadio recovers from his beating, he'll be out for blood, and I think Vic has seriously underestimated him.)
 
 
.
12:30 / 16.07.03
Now CSI versus The Shield, that'd be a rich topic to exploit. But since this is a thread for The Shield I'll keep it brief.

Now I love CSI in it's own right, but it is so utterly different to The Shield that, apart from both dealing with the aftermath of crime, I don't think they even occupy the same genre. Despite having a modern attitude to gore, CSI is really very traditional - crime as puzzle solving. The personalities involved are merely sketched (usually with a really blatant and somewhat jarring thirty second piece of them washing their car or whatever, stuck on the very end of each episode), each character designed merely to be parts of the greater riddle-revealing machine. In terms of this style of crime-puzzle programme, CSI has to be the most effective. In terms of character driven crime-thrillers, CSI doesn't even get off the starting block.

On the other hand, there's never any mystery in The Shield, not to the viewers and rarely for the characters. Take last night's episode- we all knew who was responsible for the kidnap/murder. So I'd agree that Dutch is definitely the detective-as-intellectual, the puzzle solver that we find in CSI. Only in The Shield he's rendered impotent. So, yeah, I'd agree that in order to create the overall fucked-if-you-do-fucked-if-you-don't atmosphere of The Shield it was important to undermine Dutch last episode. Mackie and Dutch have to be work as two sides of the same screwed up world- if Dutch was an effective detective (ooh!) like on CSI, then there would be no need for Mackie. But I still didn't find it particularly satisfactory the way his credibility was undermined last episode- it's not like he was a great (CSI-style) mind that was outfoxed, he was just a bit crap at his job.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
14:43 / 26.07.04
The Shield Season 3: Jesus fucking Christ. So far we've had Mackie sticking his gun in a prostitute's mouth (ultimately to stop her getting killed, but still incredibly disturbing), Dutch pushing an apparently rehabilitated former rapist back over the edge, Shane and his new fiancee putting the strike team's newbie in ICU, and as for what just happened to Aceveda... We're descending deeper inside the circles of Hell now.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
23:12 / 10.09.05
I'm not sure what series we're on now. Four, I presume.

Anyway, started watching it pretty solidly now. I'd been catching the odd episode here and there in the couple of seasons between the thread starting and now, enough to get the generally feel for the overall plot, but never managed to see it two weeks in a row.

Hooked now, though. I really like how it's all there in front of you - there's a huge (and hugely complex) show-wide continuity, but you only have to watch one episode to pick up each character's place in it.

Mackey's predicament reminds me, oddly, of Miller's Crossing. A main character stumbling through life, lurching from one self-made crisis to another, yet somehow managing to pull through in a way that makes those around him think that he had it all planned out from the start.

Fantastic bit tonight when he faced off against Shane at the end - all ready to take him down, only to have Shane point out, in his desperation, that he's not been doing anything particularly different to what Mackey, now relatively straight-edge in comparison, used to get up to. Revelation hits like a ton of bricks - you could totally see it in his eyes. And yet another layer of shit and double-crossing to have to deal with, another card piled on top of the already shaky house.

How do the long-time viewers reckon this series is holding up compared to previous ones? I've been so close to picking up the DVDs recently.
 
 
Scrambled Password Bogus Email
16:28 / 11.09.05
Sorry, haven't seen it since season 2, which is a bit of a bummer really. They shifted the broadcast day/time around so much, I just gave up.

Maybe the DVD's beckon.
 
 
Axolotl
19:56 / 11.09.05
I've been watching it and it's great. 5 did muck it around with the scheduling, and it being on saturday night means I normally record it, but it's just great TV. This latest series seems quite different, with the proviso that I saw hardly any of the last one. Vic seems less bad, possibly trying to redeem himself? while Aceveda seems to have lost what little moral high ground he had. Now he's all about the power, and not at all about helping people.
I can't understand why it isn't being lauded more by the critics. Maybe because it's a cop show, maybe because it's on 5, I don't know.
 
 
Tim Tempest
21:29 / 11.09.05
Clicked on this thread thinking that it was about The Strategic Hazard Intervention Espionage And Logistics Directorate...Although it is in the Film Forum...God I'm tired.

So, should I watch this show? I tried out 24 last season and it started off fine, but the character writing and acting was awful, so I am fairly disenchanted with television.

Except for Lost.

So, is it too late to jump onto the Shield wagon? Or will a newcomer get too confused?
 
 
Spatula Clarke
11:30 / 17.10.05
Hmm. Last episode aired in the UK this weekends and I'm not too sure about the setup for the next season, really. It's simple enough on the surface, but needlessly convoluted when you think about it in any sort of detail.

Lem confiscates a dealer's bag of heroin to hold until said dealer's information pans out. Dealer gets popped by people higher up the chain because he's not got their H. Lem and VIc break back into dealer's house, unaware of this and after more info. Dealer's girlfriend is packing to run out, scared that she's due some because of the lost H. Lem realises what he's done. Vic sees that dealer's g/f has a small kid and his White Knight persona kicks in. Sets her up in a safe house, returns the confiscated H and gets a guarantee of the girl's safety.

That all works just fine. But then to have the girl turn out to be an IAB informant, and not just any IAB informant, but one who just happens to work for the IAB agent currently investigating the Strike Team... I'm sorry, but that's too much of a coincidence to be believable. Not just in terms of the twisting of relationships, either - it also turns some of the scenes in earlier episodes into nonsense. If she was already an IAB informant when Lem took the H, why couldn't she have gone to them for protection? Daft.

Also a bit annoyed by how the whole Shane/Armie thing just got dropped towards the end of the series. That was the main storyline for most of the series - at least as important as the Mitchell stuff - but you get to the last two or three episodes and it's like it never happened. Armie's refusal to take the lie detector tes wasn't just proof of his own guilt, but of Shane's as well, and yet as soon as that episode's done with he's simply never seen or mentioned again. And Shane? Shane's not only back in with the team, but everybody else in the force seems to have forgotten all about it - Rawling goes from not really trusting him, to being almost convinced of his guilt, to finally accepting him as one of her Good Cops without question.

Bah. Messy, and not in a good way.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
12:12 / 17.10.05
Yeah, I was a bit disappointed with the way the Shane/Vic relationship was returned to status quo with too little confrontation (although I kept missing episodes of this). I was sort of hoping that Shane would just become more and more corrupt and depraved, leading to Vic having to put him down like a sick dog.

Dutch not taking the job of station chief, while in character, also seemed to dangle an interesting new angle in front of us and then take it away.
 
 
Axolotl
12:19 / 17.10.05
I agree, I thought this series was excellent with the tension building & all the characters in flux, but the last few episodes just completely ignored all this &, as Petey said, returned everything to the status quo. Disappointing, though it's still got an edge that keeps me watching.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
22:41 / 31.08.07
Season six just finished tonight in the UK.

I missed all of it bar the final episode. Bah. But, on the plus side, it was actually - shock! horror! - a good final episode, unlike those from the previous couple of seasons.

Season five's was possibly the worst thing ever. Spend an entire series building the tension to the point where everything's *got* to snap apart, then deflate it all with a completely unbelievable death. It was like the writers had backed themselves into a corner and had absolutely no idea how to escape from it, so... hey! I know! Let's just get rid of the problem by killing him! Wait, who's going to kill him? Oh! I know! One of the three people on the face of the planet who's least likely to! And let's have him do it in the single most unimaginably stupid way possible! They'll never see that coming!

Trufax. I didn't see it coming. Because it was bullshit of the smelliest order.

Dickheads.

But this... yes, much better. I wonder if I'd heard that S6 was starting and just ignored it, figuring that there was no way of getting back on track after that moment of total fuckwittedness - I think that may be the case. I've no idea how they dealt with that, and I'm not sure that I want to know - suspect that anything's going to feel like a hasty backpedal.

And there's still some hefty suspension of disbelief required, even with a relatively low key series closer like this one. Mackey walking away from his own disciplinary hearing and doing the "hero saves the day" thing - with Aceveda backing him yet again - to impress people enough for them to let him keep his job? I don't know that I buy that as a particularly realistic or believable event.

Still, quite looking forwards to S7 now that I've had the nasty taste left by S6 washed out of my gob.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
10:25 / 01.09.07
Season 6 has been very strong - but then, I didn't think the end of season 5 was bad, either.


SPOILERS, etc.


I think contrary to what you say, Lem had had "sacrificial lamb" marked on him for a while, simply by virtue of the role he played in the Strike Team. Shane, meanwhile, is fundamentally defined as a fucked-up imitation of Vic. So, as he says later in series 6, he sees killing Lem as equivalent to when Vic killed Terry - and the thing is, he's not entirely wrong, since both were murders carried out to protect the Team. It's just that killing Lem was someone more pointless and horrible, especially given the gruesome way - the reasons for which are there in the plot, Wang.

It sounds like you didn't enjoy any of the Kavanagh stuff at all - did you not think Forrest Whittaker was great?
 
 
Spatula Clarke
10:54 / 01.09.07
Oh, no, I loved all of that. It was some of the strongest stuff I've ever seen on the show. There were episodes where I was having to stop myself from coming online and searching for spoilers to ease the tension.

Just the resolution felt so broken after it all. I could buy Shane killing Lem - like you say, it's in character - if the others hadn't spent up a load of contacts and favours coming up with a workable solution to the problem. One of the strengths of the writing is how that it's pretty great at wrong-footing both the audience and the characters, but to me that felt like a step too far.

What I though really stunk about it was that nobody - not even Kavanagh, the one person who, it's been made clear to the audience, believes that Mackey is the full-on personification of Evil - gets to Lem's corpse and even suspects that anybody on the Strike Team had anything to do with it. Kavanagh makes some vague comment about this being the end result of Mackey's behaviour and points the finger at him in that sense, but it's not an accusation of direct involvement. It didn't ring true to me, that - that Kavanagh wouldn't immediately voice and act on a suspicion that either Mackey or Shane had organised Lem's death - and it's what deflated the series as a whole for me.

Every episode prior to that was a corker.

Did they deal with Kavanagh at all in S6, Fly?
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
11:17 / 01.09.07
Yes - he's in the first two or three episodes, and then his actions have ramifications beyond that. The short version is that Kavanagh basically cracks and tries to frame Mackey for Lem's death (I think he thought Mackey did it, initially, and then just stopped caring for a while), but then cracks again in a different way and realises what he's become - he confesses to framing Vic and goes off to, I think, jail with a beatific "I've shown I am better than him" smile. BUT his final report, which Mackey reads, uninentionally incriminates Shane by saying that he could only tail two members of the Strike Team that night - Shane having blamed his delay on a tail - so it's thanks to Kavanagh that Mackey figures it out.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
20:12 / 01.09.07
Ah, good. I was worried that they'd repeated the same mistake that was made with both Armie and Rawling - that you get to the start of a new season and everybody's forgotten that they ever existed.

But also bum, because now I might have to buy the DVDs.
 
 
Mistoffelees
17:05 / 22.10.08
Only five episodes left to go, people! I hope, I am not the only one watching. That were some suave moves by that rascal Shane in the last episodes. A cell phone call might just save your life.

I´m looking forward to see how it will all end for Dutchman, Billings and all the other silly geese!
 
 
Benny the Ball
21:13 / 23.10.08
I started watching season 7, or the final season, but fell behind by a couple of episodes, and decided to wait for a DVD to burn through in some down time.

I've thought that despite its sometimes desperate attempts to be oooh edgy and aaaah dark, it's been a great show - funny in places, well acted, okay script. I actually used it as a tele-visual come down after Sopranos had finished (my wife is very squeamish to make believe violence, and has taken to Prison Break, but nothing else - so I needed a bridge to get back from Sopranos to regular television) and bought boxed sets, watched them, sold them on ebay and felt great for the short term-ness of the deal.

Season 7 has started pretty rough, like they are trying to outdo themselves a little, but still has some of the great character rapport that makes it more than just a dirty cop show.
 
  
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