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Curb your enthusiasm

 
 
_Boboss
09:45 / 04.07.03
done a search and can't find any reference to this, which i think is an oversight as its definitely been my favourite new show of the year.

larry david, co-creator of seinfeld, his new life and long-suffering wife among the halfwits of LA. social embarassment that makes you really squirm in pain, basically larry gets a major karmic iraqification at the end of each episode because of a tiny tiny social faux pas that he committed at the start, repeat ad hilarium.

anyone else seen it?
 
 
arcboi
10:15 / 04.07.03
In the UK it's on BBC4 but they also whacked it onto BBC2 a few times in the same graveyard slot that Seinfeld was left in.

A pity, as it's a great show and (like Seinfeld) deserves a bigger audience.
 
 
Smoothly
11:12 / 04.07.03
Me like. Big style. For those who haven't seen it, imagine a spin-off from The Larry Sanders Show where Woody Allen plays Basil Fawlty the sitcom writer. Kinda.

But I agree, the scheduling is a brow-slapping mystery. Seinfeld, Larry Sanders, and now Curb Your Enthusiasm - all huge shows in the US (wasn't Seinfeld America's most popular programme ever?), and buried in ever-shifting graveyard slots on BBC2. Curb even seems to be a pretty moveable feast on BBC3.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
14:07 / 04.07.03
I'm not sure if you can really qualify Curb Your Enthusiasm and Larry Sanders as "huge hits" in America - both are big cult hits on cable, but aren't exactly popular or mainstream shows. Part of this has to do with the fact that they come from a premium pay-cable channel (HBO), and part of it has to do with those shows being inherantly difficult and inaccessable. There's a natural ceiling to how many people are going to get and enjoy those shows, particularly since both deal in "inside" Hollywood politics. Even compared to other shows on HBO, neither of them come anywhere near the kind of popularity that Sex And The City or The Sopranos enjoy.

I like Curb Your Enthusiasm. It's a funny show, but it gets very repititive and shrill after a while.
 
 
netbanshee
14:18 / 04.07.03
yeah CYE is one of those shows that're good to watch at the end of a long day. It can get repetitive if you're an avid viewer, but it's nice to see a show where u see it comin' and then get to laugh at the poor guy.

Sorry to see that you guys on the other side of the lake get stuck with a crappy time slot. Do you happen to get any of the worthwhile american tv over there?

AFA his Seinfeld background, this guy really seems to understand what a good basis for comedy can be. It's the small things. Wonder how many clams he's pullin' in...
 
 
8===>Q: alyn
14:51 / 04.07.03
Don't you worry about it, Larry David's a rich bastard. That show's great--repetetive, are you mad? It's one joke over and over, of course it's repetitive, but it's a good fucking joke.

Larry gets the major karmic ass-fucking every week because he's a complete jerk. My favorite line is when Larry, laughing and brushing his teeth, says, "So that's it? Divorce?"

How does BBC handle the cursing? Can you guys have cursing on network TV?
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
15:06 / 04.07.03
It's not that I don't like incredibly repetitive comedy, I do - and I think it's definitely one of the strengths of Curb, though it also is one of the things that make it hard to watch too often.

Last time I checked, the people of the UK were not getting the Daily Show - has this changed?

I really wish you all could see that show. You'd love it, I'm sure.
 
 
Smoothly
15:19 / 04.07.03
How does BBC handle the cursing? Can you guys have cursing on network TV?

Yeah, we can say 'cunt' here and *everything*.

Flux - What's the Daily Show? You've whet my appetite.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
18:19 / 04.07.03
Hmm. The closest British equivalent to the Daily Show might be The Day Today, but the style is a bit different, and I think that the Daily Show is more overtly political and news-oriented.

The show is often a very brutal and intelligent satire of American news media and politics. The host is Jon Stewart, who is hilarious, but also has an incredible everyman quality, and when he does interviews on the show with politicians, journalists, academics, etc he displays a wonderful ability to talk about complex topics in a totally unpretentious and straightfoward way.

The Daily Show correspondents are one of the best things about the show - Steven Colbert, Steve Carrell, Mo Rocca, Ed Helms, and Rob Corddry, who are all masters of deadpan delivery and absurd over-the-top creepiness.
 
 
semioticrobotic
11:16 / 26.06.06
Just started watching this on DVD, and put away the first two episodes last night. I laughed fairly heartily at a few moments, but felt that overall the show didn't pack the punch I was expecting (probably because I am a huge Seinfeld fan).

Larry David's style of improv is hilarious, of course, but I can't always say the same for the other actors (including his wife). The social situations are crafty, too, but the plotlines are not as intricately brilliant as the one's he seems to concoct with Seinfeld.

Is this merely the mire of the early goings? Do I need to "get into it" a bit deeper to find the series' "sweet spot"?
 
 
matthew.
11:41 / 26.06.06
Certainly in the first series, the plots become more intricate and layered, building on each other and referencing the previous episodes. The dinner party starring the former porn star is an absolute jem. Anything to do with Jeff's parents is hilarious. It gets better even within the first season; keep chugging along.
 
 
GogMickGog
11:43 / 26.06.06
Like the first episodes of the first series, Bryan? They're good, but the show gets gradually better, I can assure you. (Highlight of the 1st series for me is the 'beloved cunt' moment) Keep at it. I for one can't stand Seinfeld but something about this series just knocks me for six- perhaps the inclusion of gratuitous sweariness?
 
 
PyD
12:10 / 26.06.06
Series 2: The Doll

Never saw it coming, almost wet myself.

I just love the balance of how painful and joyful it cna be to watch Larry get screwed over evbery week. And the rare moments he comes out on top are just such a joy because fo their rarity.

I've always had the theory that yes Larry is a complete arsehole, but everyone else somehow manages to be even bigger arseholes and even more petty and unreasonable.
 
 
Bear
12:16 / 26.06.06
He's not always a complete asshole though a lot of the time he's actually right but most people wouldn't mention whatever is bothering him. Ok so maybe that does make him one or me perhaps for thinking he's usually in the right.

I'd stick with it though for sure.

My favourite moment of the first season -

Richard: You'd better call me later on, alright? By sundown.
Larry: "By sundown"? What are you... what are you, Gary Cooper? "By sundown"? What's gonna happen?
Richard: That's funny. You know, I'm tryin' not to laugh, but that's funny.
Larry: Yeah, okay.
Richard: You better call me by sundown.
Larry: "By sundown"? Is the posse gonna come get me?

It's the look on Richard face, totally taken by surprise by the line.
 
 
semioticrobotic
22:00 / 26.06.06
Like the first episodes of the first series, Bryan?

I've watched the first two episodes of Season 1 and plan on trying the rest of those DVDs, to give the show a fair shot. I really want to like it, Bear.


Richard: You'd better call me later on, alright? By sundown.
Larry: "By sundown"? What are you... what are you, Gary Cooper? "By sundown"? What's gonna happen?
Richard: That's funny. You know, I'm tryin' not to laugh, but that's funny.
Larry: Yeah, okay.
Richard: You better call me by sundown.
Larry: "By sundown"? Is the posse gonna come get me?


That was one of my favorite parts so far. The expressions on both their faces tell me something about the extemporaneous nature of the show.
 
 
iamus
22:22 / 26.06.06
I really just don't get this show at all. This or Seinfeld. I've tried really hard to crack a smile during either one of them but I can't.

Part of it is that sort of smug self-satisfaction that Larry gives off (and that Jerry Seinfeld was a master of too) that isn't even in character. It's like you can see him stepping out of everything, really chuffed as he takes a look at this hilarious situation he's engineered, then dives back in to deliver a line. I also found some of the ad-libbing to be quite painful, and not in the intended way either.

Not my cup of tea, I don't reckon.
 
 
PatrickMM
01:30 / 27.06.06
I actually think the first season is the strongest. The problem with the later years is that the show becomes so formulaic it loses touch with the very mundane stuff that makes both Larry's comedy and Seinfeld's comedy so strong. Virtually every episode from season two on can be summed up as Larry offends someone, and later in the episode something unrelated leads to him needing a favor from the person he offended.

I still enjoy the show, but I think the best stuff from Curb/Seinfeld is the first three years of Seinfeld, which really delves deep into analyzing the minutiae of everyday life. Watching Jerry and George dissect minute things from everyday interaction is hilarious and very true to life.

That said, my favorite Curb episodes are the Affirmative Action episode and the Incest Survivor's group one.
 
 
Krug
21:03 / 13.09.07
Is anyone watching the new season?

The first episode was pretty ordinary and I'm not quite sure how I feel about the "blacks." So far some of the scenes are a little irresponsible in their construction and the general underlying problem of the plot how they adopt the black family. Nothing too concrete and seriously problematic yet but I'll be watching to see how it pans out.
 
 
Mug Chum
22:17 / 13.09.07
I laughed at some bits. His scenes with Richard Lewis are usually funny for the feel of a funny friendship in a series that people actually laugh when someone is funny (or him imitating Lewis on the mirror is so unfunny and stupid that Lewis' "are you happy now?" becomes funny).

The cock cake was funny as well sometimes. "He knowingly served us penis".

Cheryl(in bed): Where have you been?
Larry(getting in the bed): Eating some penis.


And his scene with the "Black" mother was funny, if only because he made the entire scene with his mouth full with cake while apologizing for it (and asking her not to smoke).

But I'm still waiting to see where this is going. The overall thing with the Blacks I'm not finding all too funny and the fact the cake was chocolate left me a bit uneasy of where the humor is really aiming at.
 
 
Mug Chum
22:22 / 13.09.07
And sorry for the excessive use of the F word on the post above.
 
 
PatrickMM
01:19 / 14.09.07
I usually laugh at the show, but it's just so formulaic, it's becoming bothersome. As this thread summary shows, most people view it as a tougher or edgier version of Seinfeld, but in fact, it's a lot closer to sitcom tradition. Seinfeld's blending of four plots per episode, intersecting in interesting ways, is more interesting than Larry does something, some unrelated stuff happens, the thing he did at the beginning causes him trouble at the end.

Plus, watching Seinfeld recently, I was struck by just how dark some of the story turns were. Larry may attack some taboo topics, but he reminds me more of classic lovable, but bumbling sitcom husbands from Ralph Cramden to Homer Simpson. Just because they say fuck, it doesn't mean it's an edgy show.
 
 
Krug
06:23 / 14.09.07
ziparrow: He's generally been very responsible so I'm a little surprised if he's really lost the plot as far representation goes. But it's too early to tell. Using the blacks/larry jew joke and titling it "meet the blacks" does not seem amusing or thoughtful. like i said, we'll see.

-

You might be right Patrick. I'm not sure if the formula's getting tired for me. I've thought that was part and parcel from very early on but some great moments have kept me watching.

I mean think of the Wanda Sykes scenes where she's watching him when he runs afoul of black people. I feel like rewatching the whole thing because I watched them as they came out and have forgotten a lot of it.

I've never been able to sit through more than ten minutes of Seinfeld, if that. And it's not just the laugh track. So I can't really follow the edgy Seinfeld comparison too far unless of course your analogy is purely on a structural, analytical level. I'm not sure if edgy could ever work as a compliment chum.
 
 
DavidXBrunt
15:41 / 14.09.07
I'm guessing, feel free to correct me, that part of the reason why Seinfeld is seen as edgy is to do with the context of the time it was made. Similarly, though to a lesser degree in Seinfelds case, to the way a part of Til Death us do part owes some of it's reputation to the time it was made rather than what it was.
 
 
Bear
15:52 / 14.09.07
I think that's exactly it David, I've been re watching Seinfeld at the moment and the actors often talk about how out there some of the themes were for the time, stories about masturbation, female contraception/orgasms the actors seem in genuine shock that some of the shows got aired.

I love the first three seasons of Curb and I didn't even realize it was still being made for some reason I thought it finished in season 4. Have changes been made to the writing team perhaps for the new season?
 
 
PatrickMM
00:44 / 15.09.07
I didn't mean to imply that Seinfeld was edgier than Curb, or that edgy is a virture in and of itself, more that people frequently hail Curb for being darker than Seinfeld, and that's just not the case. Maybe it's just me, but I find Larry almost likable at this point, a bumbling goofy guy unlike the rage filled, deeply troubled George Costanza. A lot of that is the fact that he has a wife and a comfortable lifestyle, so he never has to deal with the job and dating issues that provided most of George's best material.

And, I do think the perception of Seinfeld as groundbreaking subject matter wise is mostly in relation to US TV. British TV has always been less content restrictive, US TV, especially before 2000 or so, had very little content that beyond a general audiences level of risque. When you've routinely got nudity on page three of the newspaper, it's hard to relate to a world where doing a sitcom episode about masturbation is big news.
 
 
Mug Chum
03:27 / 15.09.07
And when you can't even use the word "masturbation" or any word immediatly related to masturbation. Surely if there's something to be praised on that episode, it's for how they managed to drop all the information they wanted perfectly on your lap by just dancing around the subject (the oral sex/risotto episode as well).

I don't think any of them is particularly edgy. But I don't find Curb as funny as I used to think Seinfeld was back in the day (but I do tend to think edgy helps in comedy big time -- it's always good for a comedian when he brings something that's on the tip of your brain but you never really gave proper thought or brought into the light and into the open in a funny way -- but usually edgy is confused with just taboo without context. Having seen Sarah Silverman recently on youtube, she sort of fits in that category in my mind somehow).

I remember some times in Larry Sanders they making fun of that whole hbo:edgy thing in people's heads, usually almost making the point that people still had that 7 year old kid thing of what something adult is -- almost the same thing from comic books. So a never-seen-before character would pop up, tell the most godawful dirty joke about Snow White's hymen and just leave to never be seen again, as if the joke is that they're supposed to meet a quota -- and the recurrent characters are all "wtf was that, who was he?".
 
 
DavidXBrunt
11:50 / 15.09.07
Absolutley agree that Seinfeld has a darker edge than Curb. Larry the character is often cripplingly aware of what he's said and done, and cares about the affect, even though he thinks the reactions unfair. Jerry and George were often blithley dismissive of the results of their actions, especially if it was a good result for them. I'm thinking of George being basically responsible for his fiances death (er...do I have to spoiler warn for programmes from a decade ago?) and being relieved that he doesn't have to go through with the wedding.

Jerry in particular is, once they realise it's funny (somewhere about season 4) is shown to be callous about the suffering of others in a way Lerry rarely, if ever, is.

I think the difference is that Larry the character is being presented as a real person, and the humour comes from the reality of reactions. Jerry is almost selfconciously a sitcom character who can luxuriate in a reset button that removes consequences.
 
 
PatrickMM
23:47 / 19.09.07
That reset button is something they actually joke about in the episode "The Opposite," where Jerry does things like throw a $20 bill out a window and then finds one in his pocket. And, I think the whole joke of the series was that these people did so many selfish things, and never realized the consequence. The George wedding episode was the culmination of this, and one of the few moments where people felt it crossed the line.

Interestingly, the Seinfeld finale, where they all go on trial for their sins over the course of the series, is one of the most hated finales of any series. So, people might not have wanted to face the idea that their beloved characters were actually bad people
 
 
H3ct0r L1m4
20:57 / 11.05.08
me, i'm the thread re-animatorrrr.

i'm late to CURB, midway through the 1st season and enjyoing it. i can already see the formula at work but it's still ok.

the show is on its 6th season now, and the wife has left him [as Larry's wife in real life did], so there's at least some change in the status.

anyone watched the HBO special that led into the series? it's sort of an informal pilot about Larry prepping up stand-up act for HBO to air and it played heavily with the mockumentary\faux-reality show aspect of it, people acknowledging the camermen's presence all the time.

it was thinking about today's cornucopia of reality shows that also bought my way into CURB. it's like a gonzo-porn version of a married - actually caring for his wife - and successful George Costanza reality show [i can't avoid picturing early Seymore Butts porn films with Shane]. David enjoys the same confort zone that Seinfeld did in his program by acting out an amped up version of himself.

i'm a HUGE fan of Seinfeld an ultimately never thought that those people were bad from the get-go, but they "had" to become selfish pricks in order to succeed in the social dealings of the urban jungle.

I always kind of saw Jerry as a shaman of sorts for this jungle, but one that got too involved in the rules he was so used to observing and analysing [and operating by] from a distance.

there was some tenderness inside the irony, just rewatch the pilot [the one sans-Elaine], and first seasons. Jerry and Co. used to see the often bizarreness of everyday social dealings with awe, joy and incredulity. after some years, himself and his friends became an object of incredulity to others, that led into the trial.

that's why SEINFELD's seasons from 1 to 4 [before David] are brilliant: not only you had the interconnecting simultaneous plots but they were part of a tapestry that helped us see how NY itself as a city was alive [and self-aware, maybe?].

also, after watching all of S's 8 seasons for about 3 times, you get the feeling some of the humour comes from the brainstorming of two "closeted" conservative jewish minds in a PC metropolis in the 90s and how they feel out of place in several situations where they are supposed to show They Care.

the episode with Jerry and George feeling strange that people wonder if they're gay, "but not that there's anything wrong with that" has to me a new light in this context. sometimes you can feel George [specially] wanting to burst out and telling people in their face how much he Hates them, and sometimes he did. but most he just keeps that rage for himself.

anyway, i'm feeling that CURB gives me a good small fix of that humour from awkwardness in social dealings that i loved so much in SEINFELD, in a different, more current format [funny to me how the laughing track is never present in "smarter" sitcoms]. only LA as a setting doesn't work for me in the same way NY did, but maybe the slower pacing has a lot to do with the environment here.

probably one way to avoid - or improve - the formula would be focusing scenes not only on Larry, but also the supporting cast. not wanting it to be SEINFELD 2, but it would be more dynamic. well, maybe this already happened; i still have 5 and half more seasons to watch.

dunno if you guys heard this: Larry is to star in the next Woody Allen movie, which seems kind of fitting: George was always "Larry David by way of Woody Allen".
 
  
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