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Underground > Comic Books >

New X-Men #143

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14:39 / 05.07.03

we're left hanging for four or five issues? That's lame.

It's a standard narrative technique, employed everywhere from comics to film to TV to novels. There's nothing wrong with the device unless the reader happens to like some characters and story threads more than others.

Matthew Fluxington

14:49 / 05.07.03

It probably wouldn't be so annoying if comics came out in quicker intervals.

It seems to me that in both of these "two characters + Fantomex" arcs, we loose quite a bit of momentum and tension, because the characters who mix together in the most interesting ways are separated, and we have to deal with Fantomex, who isn't showing many signs of being an interesting character just yet. Granted, Scott and Logan are way more interesting/exciting than Jean and Charles, but still.

Wake me up when we get back to Emma and the main story, okay?

I've read this issue three times now, and I'm not sure what the answer to Persephone's question is. I think that may be a problem, and not necessarily my fault.

Matthew Fluxington

14:51 / 05.07.03

Also, in the interest of fairness, do you think it is possible that we may get an arc with Henry as the focus character?

Probably not.

15:29 / 05.07.03

Wake me up when we get back to Emma and the main story, okay?

I'm extremely interested in the recap at the start of the issue. They've chosen to include a synopsis of Scott's affair with Emma, and the Murder storyline.

Now, it might be that I've seen too much Star Trek and Buffy, I reckon that the inclusion of these elements of the synopsis may be important primer material for the Weapon Plus story, and that there may be more of a connection than is at first apparent...

17:34 / 05.07.03

>>>How does that Euthanasium thing work? Is it just an incinerator for failed experiments, or is it an accelerator for mutant development & there's this whole mythos to make the specimens walk in?<<<

The Euthanasium, as I read it, is an incinerator for failed and/or obsolete experiments, to keep the population levels under control. The mutant citizens of The World are ignorant of life outside the dome and are fed a bogus history and mythology, the culmination of which is entrance into The Euthanasium, presumably to "ascend to heaven" or somesuch thing.

20:07 / 05.07.03

i interject
Scott cannot accept the emanation because he does not accept his role in the world
he will perhaps need the euthanasium
and be whole

I'm Rick Jones, bitch

10:51 / 06.07.03

A SUGGESTION, SIRS

Grant has been foreshadowing the return of Apocolypse.

Apocolypse was hinted at as being the power responsible for Wolverine's enhancments in the original BWS Weapon X series.

Weapon X was originaly a Weapon Plus operation.

See what I'm getting at?

11:24 / 06.07.03

Not really, no. Would you mind running it past me again?

12:01 / 06.07.03

I don't think BWS hinted anything about En Sabah Nur whatsoever... other individuals may have AFTERWARDS, but certainly the original work did not. And I doubt Grant would pull out such a "superhero" turn of events... Apocalypse is DEAD. Let him stay dead where tha fucker belongs.

12:31 / 06.07.03

I am sooooo dissappointed in Bachalo. He's a lazy fuck who prefers to use these tiny abstracted close ups to illustrate action rather than ACTUALLY SHOWING US WHAT IS HAPPENING. Totally hiding behind a style. Ruined this issue for me.

Huff.

14:02 / 06.07.03

There were a few pages where I really had to sit and stare at them in an effort to work out what was going on. Not clear at all.

Our Lady of The Two Towers

14:23 / 06.07.03

For me the only confusion was when (I assume) the scientists leave the vivisection room and are at some sort of balcony when suddenly AIM gets involved. Do terrorists storm in that we don't see? Is everyone except the chief researcher actually an AIM plant?
Otherwise, the first year was redefining the X-Men in the world, the second year was the X-Men in the school, this third year seems to be about a couple of the people in the X-Men, so I predict that if Grant is writing s Year Four, it's going to be about the adventures of one of the Beast's whiskers. And as it is, I'm in danger of being more eager to read the next issue of The Filth than of X-Men, which hasn't happened so far.

14:38 / 06.07.03

i don't think apocalypse is out of the question. magneto's gone, there's clearly a big old baddie in the background of whom apocalypse is the only one who's been referred to, and morrison's a total bitch for painstaking continuity and revamping sad old characters. this title needs a scary superbaddie, if only to remind us how much this title has changed since he took over.

am i the only one disapointed by the emasculation of sabretooth, frinstance? in the xmen comics of my youth logan was scared of him, he was the only guy who was ever a real threat to him, and that made him frightening. no-one gets to kill you but me etc.

Matthew Fluxington

17:38 / 06.07.03

I don't know anything about it ever being hinted that Apocalypse had something to do with Weapon X, but Apocalypse was 100% responsible for putting the adamantium back onto Logan's skeleton after Magneto removed it.

17:41 / 06.07.03

in the jungle adventure prestige format thing it was suggested that apocalypse had some expertese in fahoning adamantium skeletons

Matthew Fluxington

18:11 / 06.07.03

Well, surely he does if he could make a new one for Logan.

It would make everything neat and tidy if they definitively stated that Apocalypse was behind Logan's adamantium in every incarnation.

More and more, it seems like En Sabah Nur will be popping up any time now.

Spyder Todd 2008

19:13 / 06.07.03

I'm not sure that this is a story about Apocalypse's ressurrection, but these are some facts that could, theoretically, make a case for it.
First, Apocalypse has his own version of Ra's al Gul's Lazaars Pit. That's how he;s survived for three thosand years or what ever. I haven't read the story where he's killed or any of the Search for Cyclops nonsense, but Apocalypse has been very close to dieing before, and then he got in his Pit, and was fine (I'm thiking of the x-Cutioner's Song)
Secondly, Apocalypse did some weird stuff and turned a nineteenth century scientist into Sinister. So, long before putting Sabertooth's adamantium into Logan, he had done some weird metalic suedo-science stuff.
And I always disliked Sabertooth. He was a stronger, stupider version of Wolverine. That's why Logan could always beat him, he could always out think him.

Matthew Fluxington

19:56 / 06.07.03

I think Apocalypse is just still inside of Scott's head.

I don't think it is any more complex than that.

20:25 / 06.07.03

Do terrorists storm in that we don't see? Is everyone except the chief researcher actually an AIM plant?

I think it's the former. There's two dead guys on the balcony in the panel opposite the Spiderman ad. Also you can see the AIM guys storming the building in the monitors on that page where the two specimens are being microwaved.

This was a pretty hard read for me. I wonder if that's a bad thing. I mean, Ulysses was a hard read, but I wouldn't say that it was poorly written. As long as you can go back and see that the pieces do work together. So far I've been able to pretty reasonably reconstruct what happened... I agree, I think the Euthansium is just an incinerator, which means the specimen that came out of the light wasn't meant to survive. Which means that it's not Weapon XV, as Fantomex asserts? It's an accident, no one planned this... so yeah, something smells wrong.

21:34 / 06.07.03

>>>This was a pretty hard read for me. I wonder if that's a bad thing. I mean, Ulysses was a hard read, but I wouldn't say that it was poorly written<<<

I don't think this issue was poorly written, just confusingly drawn. I'm sure if Frank had done it, it would have been crystal clear...

Regarding Apocalypse - Not being an X-reader until the Morrison run, I don't know ANYTHING about him, and I'm not sure I want to. Based on what I've read in this thread it ties into the "straying too far from the core concept" problems I have with the Shi'Ar and the Starjammers and all the space stuff. I like New X-Men when it keeps it simple, stupid, not when he brings in all the detritus from X-history.

Matthew Fluxington

21:52 / 06.07.03

I don't think Apocalypse "strays from the core concept" even a little bit. The character is obsessed with evolution, genetics, and 'the surival of the fittest,' and he uses his considerable powers to attempt to control the evolutionary process to his advantage.

If anything, he is the core concept.

21:55 / 06.07.03

i wouldn't slabber about En Sabah Nur. he's pretty tight.

Spyder Todd 2008

22:01 / 06.07.03

My problem with Apocalypse was that he's taken three thousand years to do absolutely nothing of consequence.

Matthew Fluxington

22:04 / 06.07.03

Just to be clear, I'm not wanting the big year 3 villain to be Apocalypse/En Sabah Nur because I really like the character as he's been portrayed in the past but because

a) it would tie things together nicely and make some sense, especially given some hints we've been given along the way

b) I think the character as retooled by Morrison could be really interesting and fun. I think it would also be a good thing for Morrison to take one of the villians most closely associated with the X-Men at its worst, and make the character exciting, interesting, and fresh. It would be a real best-of-both-worlds scenario, giving older fans a character that they recognize, but in a new and different way for the newer fans.

00:54 / 07.07.03

This storyline kinda reminds me of Grant's very first few issues on the title. The controlled evolutionary process reminds me of Nova's musings to Trask, the teaming of Scott and Wolverine, the killing of the temporarily rescued innocent, the infiltration of an installation. When that happened in E is for Extinction there was a major villian introduced and an act of genocide... this seems to be the same story played at a different level.

01:40 / 07.07.03

So what's the deal with Apocalypse? Who is he, what does he do, etc...

Matthew Fluxington

03:54 / 07.07.03

Long convoluted bio available here.

Long story short: En Sabah Nur is the world's oldest mutant, born about 5000 years ago in Egypt. He is tremendously powerful, capable of controlling all matter around him, or something like that. His powers are many, but rather ill defined.

He's a power-mad evil genius who wants to control evolution, and has been manipulating world events (and presumably some evolutionary trends) for ages. A lot of his plans aren't explained too much, and some writers just make him a lunatic trying to exert total control over the world.

In his last appearance, after an attempt to give himself godlike powers, he found himself accidentally merged with Cyclops. After Cyclops reverted back to his original body, it seemed as though En Sabah Nur had been cast out of his mind. If En Sabah Nur still exists, he is most likely disembodied.

Since the character at this point has been literally stripped down quite a bit, and much of the continuity baggage has been set aside, Grant (or anyone else who wants to write Apocalypse) can easily remake the character and keep him focused on the evolution/extreme darwinism angle.

I'm Rick Jones, bitch

09:13 / 07.07.03

Just to deliver my own theory a swift kick to the nuts, why would poccy create Bio Weapons to save humanity from extiction? Surely he'd just let the fuckers die?

15:49 / 07.07.03

This is the first issue of Grant's entire run on NEW X-MEN that I've been disappointed with so far. Weak, unclear art and a story that seems to be mostly sort-of-boring exposition and little else left me cold. Here's hoping the next issue will be more exciting.

Imaginary Mongoose Solutions

19:03 / 08.07.03

I think Scott ate Apocalypse like some sort of goetic demon.

Imaginary Mongoose Solutions

19:07 / 08.07.03

Oh, and I don't think Poccy will have anything to do with Assualt on Weapon Plus. Since it's looking like the big reveal will be the fact that Weapon One was Captain America, that would put Poccy in the Driver's seat behind too much History and get too complex.

10:56 / 09.07.03

They should install a euthanasiam in the Big Brother house - as the only exit. That should help cleanse the shallow end of the nation's gene pool.

22:26 / 09.07.03

Answering the girl in the radiator... Apocalypse would create the weapon plus programs not to save humanity, but to "cull (sp?) the weak" from mutants. Only the strong wurvive. And maybe he even has done it to stimulate evolution in humanity.

I'm Rick Jones, bitch

07:00 / 10.07.03

Someone liked this issue. I mean they really liked this issue

18:03 / 10.07.03

So, it's possible that Scott cannot use his powers in the World b/c of his tragic mental state.

We've seen how Jean's powers are connected to her self-image.

Is it possible that Chuck is now mentally crippled due to his mental state? His last few appearances, he has been reduced to a bad jokemaker. He's a shell of his former self, hiding behind stupid humor as Emma does behind bitchiness. I think that taking away his headmastership is the same as killing him. I bet his powers are on the fritz too.

Which leads me to this theory...

We've seen the importance Morrison has placed on telepathy in NXM. As KissMySARS has pointed out...practically every turning point in the book has hinged upon a telepathic standoff. We've seen that telepaths are at the top of the totem in mutantdom. The point: A focus has been put on telepathy.

I've been thinking about "Riot at Xavier's" and "Murder in the Mansion." Because of Kick, the Omega Gang subverted The Institute and rebelled, a direct blow to Professor X. This led to the elimination of Quentin and Sophie, two immensly powerful telepaths, and the character assassination of Charles Xavier, the world's greatest telepath.

"Murder" commenced with the attempted murder of Emma Frost, another of the world's greatest telepaths. AND, she said something VERY significant about Jean Grey..."She's more than just a telepath." Maybe that's why no one has tried to take Jean out...yet. They don't know if they can.

Anyway, here's the point. It's becoming clear that the machinations involving Esme and her mystery partner are working toward the goal of eliminating the world's telepaths.

It can be said the telepaths are to mutants what mutants are to humans. We see humans trying to take out mutants. So, is a mutant trying to take out the telepaths?

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