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Underground > Temple >

Spirits as complex entities

  
 
illmatic
11:03 / 02.07.03
As a spin off from this thread, I thought it was worth asking to what degree can we interact with complex external structures as spirits? There seems to be an assumption at work here that we can do this, which I’m not necessarily criticising – it might be a useful tool - but I thought it was worth examining a bit.. The idea that we can interact with our environments as spirits isn’t new of course – it’s a natural extension of the pantheistic perspective, that is - everything has a spirit even the rocks, or the chairs you’re sat on. Extending this outward we arrive at the idea of “spirit of place” which we encounter in a variety of different ways mythology and folklore, and even popular usage, I suppose.

One of the best bits of writing I’ve read on this idea is Finding your way in the Woods by Barry Patterson. He presents the idea of the sprit of a place or “glade” as he calls it, as an emergent property of the abundance of life that surrounds us in natural environments, and gives some solid approaches to interacting with this.

However, as most of us are city dwellers, I wonder if anyone has ever tried this idea in the city. With housing blocks? With Corparations? One of the few writers I’ve read who’ve mentioned this idea is Stephen Mace (extract here) who mentions binding the sprits of music venues to make his favourite bands play better! (That reference isn’t available on line but you should all follow the link and buy his books anyway because they’re fantastic). So - has anyone ever attempted anything like this? (I haven’t I hasten to add). What was your experience?

And finally, what do people think about interacting in this manner with incredibly broad, complex structures like nation-states? I’ve got to admit this is a bit of a stumbling block for me, as such structures seem overflowing with a multitude of contradictory meanings, I wonder how you’d ever get an handle on them.

Any thoughts?
 
 
illmatic
13:10 / 02.07.03
Links here:
http://www.redsandstonehill.net/espirit/woods.html

and

here

http://www.dagonproductions.com/smace1.htm

either barbelith is broke or I am the world’s biggest HTML fuckwit (bets on the latter, I think).
 
 
trouser the trouserian
13:22 / 02.07.03
Illmatic

There seems to be an assumption at work here that we can do this, which I’m not necessarily criticising - it might be a useful tool - but I thought it was worth examining a bit.

Well, I would say to this that I am very much an animist, and my experience of working with spirits - be they spirits of places, local area networks, or behavioural memes, indicates to me at least, that it is do-able to varying degrees.

I have tried contacting the genius loci of places that I've lived in - starting out slowly very much in the manner that Barry describes - getting to know the area in different seasons, different times of the day & night, researching into its history, just finding 'power spots' in the manner that Stephen Mace reccomends in his essay on same (can't recall the particular book its been repblished in I'm afraid). I find with large structures - such as areas within a city, it's taken me a very long time before the sense of affinity or 'contact' builds into something perceptible. I remember walking through Nottingham early one morning, musing how the city might 'speak' to me - perhaps through the flights of starlings whirling around the rooftops, spelling out messages in the traffic gridlocking the city at rush-hour, flashing hidden meanings from the graffiti in the underpass. Perhaps this was hubris on my part - to the city I am but a single cell. I'm not claiming any great successes with doing this, but I feel it's certainly worth trying, if only to understand that the cities we live in are as 'magical' as anywhere else. As John Constantine says, you can find trolls in Birmingham, if you know where to look. As with many other aspects of magic, what's important is opening yourself to the possibiliites, and building relationships.


Incidently, Finding your way in the Woods is being published by Capall Bann.
 
 
Spyder Todd 2008
00:54 / 03.07.03
When I was in London I borrowed a bit of the soul of the city for just such an exercise as this. I went to a phone booth (anyone who's been to London knows what I'm talking about) grabbed one of the cards in there and carried it out. I'm still holding onto it, because I still want to summon up the spirit of London, but I don't really have a reason to use it and I'm not sure how I'd do it.
 
 
illmatic
07:47 / 03.07.03
I know exactly the cars your talking about, Spyder. Some of 'em have even starting carrying "genuine photos" on, which makes them even more weird and seedy. Not that I *cough* look at them or anything *cough*.

Any more thoughts on complex structures, corporations etc and so on as the object of magicial focus?
 
 
Quantum
07:49 / 03.07.03
A logo is a sigil of sorts, I mean, a pair of golden arches will allow you to summon a sinister clown...
 
 
Spyder Todd 2008
12:32 / 03.07.03
I'll have to remember that next time I need to summon a sinister clown, although I guess that's kind of obvious.
 
 
Seth
17:19 / 03.07.03
When I first started at HSBC I had a brief run-in with what I percieved to be a corporate entity, some kind of sentient hypostasis of my department. It approached me, sussing me out: I could practically see it in the corner of my eye, feel it standing behind my back.

There's not a great deal to report on the encounter. I respectfully acknowledged its presence and introduced myself. It was important to let it know that it had nothing to fear from me, as it seemed more than a little spooked that I was aware of it as a sentient being (there's no-one else in the department with any kind of well developed esoteric experience as far as I can tell). Finally I let it know that I planned to do my best for the company until the day I leave, and that I was prepared to compromise and be flexible as long as I wasn't required to contradict my personal principles. Having established a working relationship and a degree of trust I felt a lot more comfortable in the office, and I haven't encountered the spirit since.

There's plenty to support the hypothesis of corporations as living creatures. Viewed from a certain perspective they fulfil the seven criteria for life (growth, respiration, reproduction, excretion, nutrition, movement and response to stimuli). I'd certainly recommend that people explore the concept - consider how building a relationship with the spirit of company might enhance one's career prospects, help in interviews and increase one's performance, hitting targets and achieving bonus. They may be hungry ghosts, but there's no reason you can't get along with them should you need to.

As a brief aside, I've also noticed how the spirit of a business effects its employees. Personality traits get passed down from the senior management to the lower echelons of staff. I've worked for companies in which you can the same patterns repeating endlessly throughout the heirarchical strata. It's a fascinating phenomenon to map out, and the knowledge gained might be essential to your time employed in the company.

I've learned a huge amount in the six years that I've been in full time employment - you should never dismiss the workplace as simply "the shit you have to go through to live." There's plenty of magic to be done if you have an imagination. Let's face it: the alternative is endless dead time, a working week spent watching the clock... ok, rant over.
 
  
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