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Prospero's Books - What's the deal?

 
 
iconoplast
01:44 / 01.07.03
Someone told me, accusingly, that I should just go and rent Prospero's Books if I liked my movies so goddamned complicated.

So I did.

And, while I haven't had a chance to watch it yet, I did wonder if any of you have, and what you thought.
 
 
Hieronymus
03:15 / 01.07.03
It's been a long while since I've seen it, iconoplast, but I do remember that it was like a mad two hour run through Circus Soleil. With lots more interpretative dance.

It goes on a bit long but I did think it was cool seeing the magical realm of Prospero's craft come to life. If only they'd attached some kind of story to it, it would have been far, far better.
 
 
Raw Norton
03:45 / 01.07.03
Yeah, when I'm watching a movie I have a clear preference for something with a plot. I can forgive, though, being utterly plotless (though I honestly can't think of a good example of such a film) and I downright love it when themes are advanced and developed in ununsual, un-storylike ways (eg, Koyaanisqastqi).
What I remember disliking about "Prospero's" was the film's quasi-plot, the way it halfheartedly flirted with somekind of story. It's been a few years, but I seem to recall something about the movie being rather pointlessly divided into different "books." Who knows, maybe I didn't get it back then.
Also in hindsight, I think I was annoyed that a film that seems to draw so deliberately on the Tempest really didn't have that much to do with that play. Maybe if the movie didn't pretend to involve actual characters from an actual and revered piece of work, I could've forgiven the dearth of story.

Having said that, it did make an impression on me. I remember it had beautiful sets and wardrobes. Most of all I remember these extended dolly-shots, when the camera seemed to pan for miles. I loved the dreamy, flowing feel to that.
 
 
Mr Tricks
15:16 / 01.07.03
Having said that, it did make an impression on me. I remember it had beautiful sets and wardrobes. Most of all I remember these extended dolly-shots, when the camera seemed to pan for miles. I loved the dreamy, flowing feel to that.

that was about all that was remotely worth Watching IMO...

A much better film by the same director was of course:
The Cook, The Thief, His Wife & her Lover

which was just as visually stunning, if not more so considering the actual story involved. Wonderfully acted & all around best seen on as big a screen as possible... letterbox is a must.
Other movies by that same director..

The Pillow Book

and to a lesser extent Murder by Numbers not the Sandra Buttox version but the 80's version if you can find it...After you have seen Prospero's trip, er... book.

Check out The The Cook, The Thief, His Wife & her Lover, eat dinner first.
 
 
Hieronymus
15:22 / 01.07.03
Yeah. Being an amateur chapbook maker and caligraphy/font nut, I thought the Pillow Book was far better than Prospero. Well worth renting.
 
 
Saint Keggers
16:32 / 01.07.03
Pillow Book is the only movie Ive seen by Peter Greenway. But being a photographer and painter and font nut too I thought the visuals were amazing and have since being tying to find someone to be my canvas. Damn that movie and the fact that I only have it on an old VHS copy taped from tv on a vcr thats semi incompatible with my own. Must buy the DVD.
 
 
grant
17:05 / 01.07.03
To my mind, Prospero's Books was an interesting experiment in a style that Greenaway only mastered in Pillow Book.
There are some great images, though, and John Gielgud's voice is sort of hauntingly insane.
 
 
videodrome
17:36 / 01.07.03
That would be Drowning By Numbers, made when Greenaway was more playful. Good film. Better in my opinion is A Zed And Two Naughts, the best of his pre-Cook, Thief material. ZOO fuses twins and time-lapse decay into a fabulous grand guignol, equaled only by Dead Ringers.

But I love Prospero, if only for the fact that Gielgud speaks 90% of the dialogue, regardless of which character it's for. I don't see how anyone can say there's no story - it's The Tempest, pure and simple, not a derivate thereof. Sure, it's told in Greenaway's relentlessly arty style, cinematic opera if you will, but the story is still there.

It's just buried under a lot of naked people, that's all.
 
 
penitentvandal
17:46 / 01.07.03
As a Greenaway fan, I have to agree that Prospero's Books isn't, in my opinion, that good. I have a suspicion that the drugs were getting too much for him at that point; a more generous interpretation would be grant's, below. As to the other movies...

The Pillow Book was the first Greenaway movie I saw, and it blew me away. I had to review it for my uni newspaper during my first, heady weeks as a student; the resulting text broke every rule of review-journalism: it was overlong, it was effusive, it contained deep textual analysis instead of a simple precis - but they printed it anyway. None of us really had any idea what the rules were at that point...which I mention because one of the things I love about the film is the way it just completely fucked with my perceptions of cinema - all the little insets and multi-viewpoint shots, the use of karaoke text in one sequence, etc, etc - brilliant. If you don't like it, you don't like films. Simple as that.

The Cook, The Thief, His Wife and Her Lover - funnily enough, I watched this again recently. It's fantastic: visually sumptious, self-consciously theatrical, and featuring brilliant performances from pretty much everyone involved, especially Michael Gambon's absolutely disgusting tyrant.

Drowning (not murder) by Numbers is more of an acquired taste, but still worth seeing. It's got Joely Richardson in it, which is always a plus.
 
 
videodrome
19:46 / 01.07.03
I've never understood why people are so on about The Pillow Book. Is it just the naked Ewan, not that it's a unique feature? The film has always struck me as one of his less interesting works, lagging behind Prospero and The Baby of Macon. I love the ideas in it, but think he's handled them with more facility elsewhere.
 
 
Saint Keggers
20:57 / 01.07.03
Having not seen any other Greenaway films I cant comment on them but as for the Pillow Book I can assure you its definitly not the Ewan factor. I think, for me at least, its the presentation of images and as I've stated before I've had a thing for body writting. But now Im defintly going to have myself a greenaway fest.
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
23:43 / 01.07.03
I was tempted, and guess I will answer thusly:

Q: What's Prospero's Books all about?
A: Tits.

To my mind, it seemed to be a case of style over substance. His films all are, to a certain extent, but this one just didn't work for me. Gielgud's voice is the best thing about it - I spose it works as a sort of solispsistic portrait, but other than that, it just left me cold.

Videodrome's right, though; A Zed... is just an amazingly compulsive film... something about it is horrific, but draws you right in.
 
 
lord nuneaton savage
11:47 / 02.07.03
Greenaway's nothing but a puffed up opera bore if you ask me. If you want a wittier, sexier, more colourful and interesting version of the Tempest check out Derek Jarman's version.
 
 
Scrambled Password Bogus Email
19:50 / 02.07.03
Wasn't Greenaway the man behind The Draughtsman's Contract as well?

Great score.
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
23:19 / 02.07.03
That'd be Michael Nyman, he of The Piano fame, wouldn't it? They had a pretty long-standing working relationship - some parts of his The Cook... score (as well as ZOO) were just lovely.
 
 
videodrome
03:35 / 03.07.03
Greenaway, like Lynch, Cronenberg and many others outside the studio system, is quite loyal to many collaborators. Michael Nyman scored almost all of Greenaway's films up through Prospero. And the fabulous Sacha Vierny shot eight of his primary features and some smaller Greenaway projects before he died in 2001. (I curse his death twofold, for the loss of one of the world's best cinematographers, and for the fact that I ended up seeing The Man Who Cried because it was his last film.) He's used the same production designer, editor and others on multiple films, as well...
 
 
grant
15:24 / 03.07.03
I think a lot of Greenaway's collaborators were involved with Gattaca as well. Well, at least Nyman and the production designer. (The guy who makes the sets and locations look like they look).
 
 
Sibelian 2.0
11:24 / 18.03.07
I resurrect this ancient thread, perhaps ill-advisedly, as it seems to be the Peter Greenaway Thread, for the recommendation of the Baby of Macon, which I saw a year or so ago and is possibly the most head-twisting film in terms of mucking about with fictional frames of reference I've ever seen. So if you like that sort of thing (and many people on this board seem to) you may wish to watch it. But be warned, it's about as nasty as The Cook, The Thief, His Wife and Her Lover and is even more unsettling through its lack of story-telling coherence. A friend of mine remarked, half-way through: "He really doesn't *like* women, does he?" which took me aback, though I supposed I had to pay attention to this comment as she is female and I am not.

Also there is Belly of an Architect which is a more more typical Greenaway in the vein of Zed and Two Noughts (which for some reason has never
particularly impressed me) and Drowning by Numbers (my favourite by far and strangely entangled in my brain with other works such as Kit Williams' Masquerade, Alice in Wonderland and a late 70's early 80's TV programme called The Adventure Game (season I only) into a "genre" that probably only I can see, abstrusely straddling English country gardens, puzzles, wit and nonsense. Perhaps it should have a name. It might include Momus), and is well worth a look, although it may not be worth mentioning here, as Greenaway fans are nearly always obsessive completists.

Baby, however, isn't very well known at all, even by Greenaway fans, and it's truly very weird. It was during this film that I realised how much better Greenaway is than other film-makers at portraying violence, almost everybody else manages to squeeze violence through a sort of cinematic toothpaste tube into something distorted and titillating, Greenaway never fails to show violence for the ugly, worthless thing it is. He *subtracts* the art from violence.

I've always found it slightly peculiar that people think of Greenaway as "arty", given that cornerstone of his understanding of violence. It's everybody *else* that's being pretentious, using violence as a means to an end. He just leaves it up on the screen, unadorned and naked, giving the audience no cues as to how they are to "intepret2 the scene.

Oh, and I saw The Draughtsman's Contract again recently, and was suitably impressed. Greenaway's films rarely fail to grow on repeat viewing (with the exception of Zed and Two Noughts which I think is a dud). It's possibly his most conventional feature and probably the most fun to decipher...
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
12:42 / 18.03.07
Drowning by Numbers was the first Greenaway movie I ever saw, and I fell in love with it, and him. Probably the closest to that is A Zed And Two Noughts, which I don't think is quite as good but which is still amazing.

The way he uses the concept of games in Drowning is fucking genius- there's even a game for the audience to play, spotting the numbers as they count up to a hundred throughout the film.
 
 
Sibelian 2.0
19:21 / 18.03.07

Yes, Drowning by Numbers is one of my favourite films. Which reminds me, I've been planning on seeing it again for some time now.

For years and years I've been trying to convince people to play "Hangman's Cricket" with no success at all. This is perhaps because I'm fond of games in which it doesn't matter who wins and few of my friends see games in this way.

And the soundtrack is delightful.

It's interesting, a friend of mine had this theory that the first Peter Greenaway film you see is always your favourite one, and I've yet to meet a counter-example of this trend. I found myself comparing all of his films to "Drowning by Numbers" as if that were a sort of pole to which his work should tend (and then I noticed that I do something like this with the work of *most* creative people).
 
  
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