Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.

Underground > Radio & Music >

Beyonce!

Matthew Fluxington

13:51 / 27.06.03

This is the thread in which we talk about all things Beyonce Knowles.

Let's start things off with a question:

Is it a) lame that Beyonce sequenced the Dangerously In Love album so that it hits a wall as soon as the ballads kick in in the final third of the record, or b) very nice of her to sequence the record so that after the eighth or ninth song, you can turn the album off and pretend that the record is just about flawless?

Really, the ballads aren't so bad, except for the Luther Vandross duet, which is just terrible.

Regrettable Juvenilia

14:42 / 27.06.03

Only got the album yesterday and haven't had that much time to listen to it yet - it's reserved for a train journey tonight. I have vaguely noticed that it follows the classic sequence of putting the big, upbeat songs up front and the smoochy ballads at the end - which I guess is better than having them mixed together. You get 'Work It Out' (yay!) and 'Bonnie & Clyde 03' (zzzzz) at the end of my CD, though. To be honest, the way I feel about the ballads is: with Missy Elliott albums also, and with Destiny's Child even more so, you always had to put up with at least godawful ballad (probably about Jesus) near the end of the album, and it's just a question of hoping that the unbelievably good future-funk sexpop wins on balance.

I'm really impressed with a lot of the production on this album already - 'Naughty Girl' had me thinking "wow, is this Timbaland trying to outdo the Neptunes, or vice versa?", but no, it's all co-produced by Beyonce herself with various relative unknowns, and some of it is completely mad - 'Hip Hop Star', wow, that beat is genuinely sick.

And of course, 'Crazy In Love', single of the year etc... HEYYYYY!

Matthew Fluxington

14:51 / 27.06.03

I don't have the official cd, would you mind writing out who produced what?

It's pretty cool that you get "Work It Out" and "03 Bonnie & Clyde" on the UK version. Do you also get "Daddy" which is the unlisted bonus track on the US version? That's the tender love song to her dad, which borders on being creepy.

It seems to get downplayed in the media, but she's one hell of a songwriter, isn't she? She's easily one of the best songwriters of her generation so far, based on this album and the Destiny's Child songs that she's written and produced.

Why is it that so few people are willing to point this out?

Regrettable Juvenilia

14:58 / 27.06.03

It's simple. She's a young black women with a resolutely poppy style and stunning good looks. Most music critics are white men, often old, ugly and grumpy to boot. She doesn't fit into their idea of who a songwriter is.

Will copy production notes ASAP.

Matthew Fluxington

15:16 / 27.06.03

Well, she doesn't play a guitar, or a piano.

Guitars and pianos = songwriting.

Matthew Fluxington

15:17 / 27.06.03

I just want to make it clear that I was being sarcastic just then.

08:27 / 28.06.03

Crazy In Love - Rich Harrison and Beyonce
Naughty Girl - Scott Storch
Baby Boy - Scott Storch
Hip Hop Star - Beyonce and Bryce Wilson
Be With You - Rich Harrison and Beyonce
Me, Myself and I - Scott Storch
Yes - Beyonce and Focus...
Signs - Missy
Speechless - Beyonce and Andreao 'Fanatic' Heard and Sherrod Barnes
That's How You Like It - D-Roy and Mr B and Beyonce
The Closer - Nat Adderley Jr
Dangerously in Love - Beyonce and Errol 'Poppi' McCalla
Interlude - Beyonce
Gift From Virgo - Beyonce
Work It Out - Neptunes

There are no production credits for Bonny and Clyde or the song to her dad. She also gets writing credits on everything except Signs, That's How You Like It, Closer, and Bonnie and Clyde.

The album rules, of course, and the only ballad which is really unbearable is the dad one. Weirdly, Bonnie and Clyde seems to work better here than it did on the Blueprint. Now I feel bad for not expressing how much I love the record, but I have a hangover, I have been screaming about how good it is all week.

Matthew Fluxington

13:56 / 28.06.03

I'm kinda surprised that you really like the song with Luther Vandross, Crunchy.

The "Daddy" song doesn't bug me too much, but that Vandross tune is unbearable!

16:11 / 28.06.03

Vandross? Can you handle it? I don't think you can handle it...

17:47 / 28.06.03

Never stopped 'em "bigging up" Miss Dynamite-ee-hee...

03:34 / 29.06.03

I wouldn't say I really like the Vandross song, I just don't hate it, not nearly as much as I do the daddy one. But maybe that one just sticks in my head cause it's last.

The best thing about Crazy In Love is that is has two completely different really great bits, and they're both better than each other, so you're always happy when it goes from one to the other.

Also I'm fascinated by the growing complexity of Beyonce's sexual ethics. Nasty girl = bad, naughty girl = okay.

Matthew Fluxington

22:15 / 30.06.03

What do you all think of "Yes"?

I think that's the song that is begging to be the leftfield hit from this record. It might lend itself well to a radio remix, but I really don't think the lethargic beat and backmasked keyboards do much to distract from the fact that this song has one of the best melodies on the record. It's the slowjam of the future, and the lyrics are fantastic too.

Regrettable Juvenilia

16:17 / 01.07.03

Crunchy: weird, my copy of the album definitely credits Beyonce with co-production on tracks 2 & 3, and I'm sure a few more not listed above. Hmmm.

Anyway, I kinda like 'Yes', and the production jumped out at me on a first listen, but I wouldn't say it's the best ballad on the record, or the one that's crying out to be a single. That's got to be 'Be With You', which I think has this really classic feel to it - it sorta sounds like Isaac Hayes or 'Everybody Loves The Sunshine' or maybe even Barry White circa 'Playing Your Game'. Really dreamy: I can imagine people on pills coming home from a club and putting this on, or it being played as dawn is breaking at house parties... Although the chorus does essentially seem to be the same tune as 'Freak Like Me', but hey, steal from the best say I.

The other ballad I really like is 'Me, Myself and I', just because it's depressing as fuck. "And it ain't no need to cry..." - argh, putting a brave face on having made a promise to die alone and loveless. Eek.

(The title track is also very fine.)

08:08 / 03.07.03

(The title track is also very fine.)

Indeed. Stuck in my head on a joyous loop!

Just got the album this morning. Will report back. But I think you are right Flux that Beyonce is a highly underrated songwriter.

11:25 / 05.07.03

I'm not sure if its on her new album (or indeed new), but beyonce's version of "in da club" is just awesome, much better than the original.

but just what are "diamond [s/z]inatis"?

12:17 / 06.07.03

Crazy In Love is the tits. And it's knocking the god awful Evanesance off the number one spot here in GB. Beyonce is my hero, though I am getting a bit fucked off with her talking about how she's "blessed" in interviews.

23:59 / 06.07.03

Dude, the fucking Fast Food Rockers' Fast Food Song would have been the tits if it had knocked Fucking Evenescence and their whinning gothy pious Christian moralising off number one.

At least Beyonce's pious Christian moralising has the common decency to have absolutly nothing to do with pious Christian moralising at all.

01:18 / 07.07.03

Still, that line, in 'Survivor'...

You know the one. It'd've been ok if 'Survivor' wasn't shit, possibly.

I really like some of this album, but I'd recommend either Kelis album some way before it (they also include writing credits! but it may just be the lyrics!,) as far as r'n'b/swingbeat/digi-soul/whatever divas go.

02:06 / 07.07.03

Beyonce =

05:58 / 07.07.03

But everyone knows the second Kelis album is shit.