BARBELITH underground
 

Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.


Recapitulation

 
 
Papess
15:08 / 20.06.03
Okay, this is a bit of a review, but I do have some questions about Recapitulation. However, this thread doesn't have to be just about me though. If others have questions or insights about Recapitulation apart from my own, please go ahead and post 'em up.

One of my concerns is the incredibly simple nature of Recapitulation. It baffles me. (Yeah, figures I wouldn't get the easy stuff!) Apparently, of everything in the Castenada books and Don Juan's (whomever he is) teachings, Recapitulation is the most important aspect. If this is not accomplished, it seems the rest of the work is a waste of time, (or as Sir John put it, "...amounts to a hill of beans..."). Is this for certain?

If it is true - and it has been impressed upon me that it is - then shouldn't everyone be doing it? Then again I guess it is like eating your veggies...good for you but sometimes a chore. (Not me though, I like all veggies)

Are there others here that practice this? (Recapitulation, not veggie eating, BTW.)

I am also wondering about other people's techniques and experiences. There is one technique in the books that's very simple, but there are certain helpful positions hinted at also, such as suspension.

Is it possible to recapitulate while walking or washing dishes...err, having sex?

Also, I am wondering about the purpose of recapitulation. Yeah, I do have a clue about what it is, but I kinda need a refresher or reassurance that I am not bloody nuts or the people I know aren't. Okay, maybe that is a tall order but I think ya get what I mean....What are the various applications and is there more than one?

Such a simple idea, I just had to complicate it! :P
 
 
Who's your Tzaddi?
22:32 / 20.06.03
Is it possible to recapitulate while walking or washing dishes...err, having sex?

NO.
 
 
Who's your Tzaddi?
22:33 / 20.06.03
PS: Follow the path with heart - forget the teachers and trust the robot which is yourself.
 
 
cusm
22:36 / 20.06.03
Sorry, what is recapitulation? Vocabulary help please.
 
 
Who's your Tzaddi?
22:40 / 20.06.03
Cusm -

Recapitulation is one of the procedures outlined by Don Juan Matus in his epic "Castaneda" tales. The purpose of recapitulation is to revisit/remember your past with RUTHLESS HONESTY (Italics mine because it's so fooking important to realize this part of the excercise) in order to recapture lost energy expended "foolishly" (and that includes sex - tricking the body into believing it is reproducing each romp you have depletes our energy body to near death) The recovered energy is then used to repair holes in the energy body.

Or so I have heard.
 
 
illmatic
10:21 / 21.06.03
So can you give an example of how this might be done? Not familar with the idea either, havin not read much Castenada.
 
 
gravitybitch
15:45 / 21.06.03
[momentary thread rot]

tricking the body into believing it is reproducing each romp you have depletes our energy body to near death

I make a point of not sleeping with black holes or psychic vampires...

Two possibilities come to mind. One: you may be confusing the energetic merging and loss of some sense of separate "selfness" with a loss of energy. Two: you're just repeating the same old tired crap from the early 1900's about women being passive receptacles who absorb the life force from the male during coupling. I used to have a gem of a book from the 1920's (I think it was called The Ideal Marriage) which went so far as to specifically recommend separate beds to prevent the wife from draining the energy from her husband while he slept.

[/thread rot]

Back to the subject of recapitulation - I don't think so either. I suspect that there are other practices, particularly some ways of moving energy, which might be healing or might draw in connections you don't want to leave hanging out there. But I don't know if it's possible to do that during intercourse; don't think I could do it unless it was somebody I wasn't particularly interested in being close to and wouldn't be having sex with anyway. But that's just me...
 
 
ciarconn
23:10 / 21.06.03
Hey, May, good to read you again.
Let's start from the basics and on to the complexities.
Recapitulation is basically a meditative state in which you review a moment of your life, while you breath in an specific way, and have the intent of Picking up the energy you left behind and abbandon all energy other people left in you. It is ussually acompanied by a sideways movement of your head.
Recapitulation might have paralel effects to zen and/or budist meditation. One cleans up the ego, until there's nothing left, but your real you.
Yes, recaptulation is a simple practice. You take one short period of time, and you work with it. The hard part is having the discipline/impecability to recaptulate your whole life. It is important because it allows the warrior to de-structurate his self/ego/personal importance on it's most essential aspects.
As far as other ways of doing recapitulation, well. It's a lot easier if done like CC says, because there's a whole lot of intent behind the moves and the breathing, but the most important part of recapitualtion is the attention to that part of your life and the intention of picking up the gold and throwing out the garbage.
I've done recapitulation without the movements, and it can be done, but it's harder. I have done recapitulation while doing martial art forms, too. Never did the suspension thing, but I know someone who did, and it does help.
Now, I haven't done a complete, orderly recap. I have just recapitulated those moments of my life with too much (negative) emotions in them. Most of them I have reviewed several times. I did do the map of my life, but didn't get into the whole recap thing.
On the sex thing. Iszabelle is interpreting things a bit off.
Cc never blames women as "male power sponges" or the like. Pretty much the other way around. The explanation can be divided in two parts:
a) The act itself does not consume energy, but the emotional and egoic aspects behind sex do, if sex is done as a product of pure, selfless love, ot would not consume power.
b) Sex is conscience creation. In CC's view, when to people have sex, their awareness fibers "shake" and even breake in order to create a new awareness. So there is a loss on awareness inherent in sex.
In Taisha Avelar's books, they expand the idea of sex being a worse loss for women than for men, I can expand that if you like. This post is getting too long. Sorry for the spelling.
 
 
paw
01:01 / 22.06.03
instructions on how to recapitulate please! espcially on the breathing technique. is this similar to the nlp exercise i practice where you go back to a bad incident from your past and simulate how you would have liked the experience to pan out?
 
 
ciarconn
03:02 / 22.06.03
No, recapitulation does not involve "reconstructing" past experiences. There are some techniques in NLP that are more similar, but they do not inolve the essential recovering of energy. It more about recognizing the real situation, not your perception about it.
The breathing techniques, I hope someone else can describe them, I seem to have a confusion here, I know two different ways, now.
 
 
mixmage
04:01 / 22.06.03
hmmm... the one I heard involves inhaling over the right shoulder, then exhaling as you turn your head to the left. Inhale as you return to the right. Suck it back, set it free... that's my [very] basic understanding.
 
 
Papess
18:57 / 22.06.03
Very interesting...

Yes, I do think it is the emotional attachments created before, during and after sex that cause the depletion of energy. But it is possible to have completely detached sex, especially if one knows how to recouperate the energy lost from biological impulses also, by over-riding them through breathwork. Or, sometimes this orgone energy is expelled in order to create, especially for reproduction and/or a magickal childe.

This can be done however, at any intense expenditure of energy. Think about taking back all the intense energy one may have spent writing an exgesis or creating a work of art or performing (a bit like sexual performance) an art; the offspring of our minds.

Hmm, video games...What a rush! Could that just be the sensation of energy escaping the body, just as in orgasm?

=============================

So, if the point of recapitulation is to recover energy spent and entangled during the course of our lives to patch up the Energy Body, it is just that...correct? The matter of being ruthless is not for the purpose of judgement, correct? Ruthlessness for the purpose of instilling the discipline perhaps, but it seems if we get caught in judgements about our experiences, then we are recapitulating in futility.

So...ruthless honesty...doesn't have to mean, catholic guilt or buddhist karma, right?

=============================

Yep...you have the technique correct mixmage. Such a simple thing, eh?


=============================

Good to see you too ciarconn. I am especially interested in the similarities and differences of meditation and recapitulation, glad you brought it up. I can see that both require the mind to be very disciplined...so is there any difference? To answer this it is important to define both adequately and I am going to let others give their definitions first, because, well...I am still thinking about it... :P

Another question this brings up for me is that, there are other shamanic systems that do not have this unique feature of recapitulation in it. Could there be another possible way to acheive what is accomplished during recapping the Castenada style, in another manner?

Not every system uses this or are there comparable methods in various other paradigms?
 
 
Who's your Tzaddi?
22:51 / 22.06.03
If you have perfected it, why ask?

If you believe it possible, how's it worked out so far having detatched sex and thinking about someone else trying to recapture the energy you spent the last time you had detatched sex.

There is no easy way out. There is no pleasure to it. Either shit or get off the pot.

With all due respect.
 
 
ciarconn
01:52 / 23.06.03
As May puts it, it would be like stalking the other through sex.
That seems to be one of the objectives of staliking, to create an screen for diverting normal attention. That would even take out the energ tendrils men put on women, BUT I do not think one would be ab le to really enojoy sex while stalking... unless one were terribly impecable.

Concerning guilt in recapitulation, well, guilt is a feeling of personal importance. One must recapitulate impecably, and part of impecability is to not to let oneself be overtaken by emotions and feelings.

When I speak of meditation, I refer mostly to budist and/or zen meditation, which implies reaching through diferent means an state of mental emptiness, a silence. Budist ussualy do several practices that help them to reduce ego/ personal importance. So, meditation does not achieve exactly the same thing as recapitulation, since meditation does not work directly on the ego itself. at least in it's intial stages. But they do eventually reach the same end, if practiced with the correlative practics (not-doing and stalking, or the octuple way).

The last question is a bit harder to answer. As far as I know there are no practices in Mexican contemporary shamanism that are exactly equivalent to recapitulation. (I have studied the subject, but i am not an expert, so I might be wrong there). Nor did the precolombine aztecs have it. Aztecs had a practice that was much more similar to christian confession, guilt and penitence included.

I do seem to recall some rituals in which the shaman guides a person though an halucinogenic karma burnout, an strong reprisal of the experience in which the person overcomes the negative feelings about the experience. But I can't recall in which tradition (or even if it was an american tradition or not). I'll dig in the dusty depths of my mind and books.

I'll be around
 
 
Quantum
13:37 / 23.06.03
It was my understanding that the recapitulation of your whole life was essential in order to offer it up to the Eagle upon your death so he could eat it, allowing you to slip past him into the worlds beyond death. Like a 'fake' you made of your memories to sacrifice in your place.
So all the energy you reclaim during the recapitulation is fed to the eagle anyway (cf. 'The Eagle's Gift' Castaneda)

So...ruthless honesty...doesn't have to mean, catholic guilt or buddhist karma, right?
I would say definitely not- the honesty is to get as accurate a recollection of your life as you can. If you recapitulate a biased account of your life, that makes you look better or worse than in fact you were, it won't be acceptable to the Eagle and he'll eat you. IIRC.

I'm not sure how well the Castaneda/Don Juan techniques interact with other systems, DJ seemed to have very little time for them. The modern idea of different belief systems being valid didn't wash with him, he was a Toltec and that was the Right Way to do things.
 
 
diz
16:18 / 23.06.03
i am skeptical of all this talk of energy expenditure. it seems to stem from the linked ideas that:


1- that there is an essential self

and

2- that there is a finite amount of "life energy" stored somehow in that self that can be depleted or recharged


i find both of these ideas generally false and not in a very useful way.

it seems to me that "self" is a (generally dangerous, though sometimes useful) illusion, and that energy is not and cannot be stored, spent, depleted, etc. some kind of life force (chi, prana, etc) can, and does, flow through what we perceive to be ourselves. we can shape that flow and our perceptions of what our selves are, our intentions and such (thus, karma), but trying to hold on to that energy, rather than trying to keep the flow clear, strikes me as sheer folly.

but that's just me.
 
 
Papess
17:20 / 23.06.03
I really have trouble with a system that seems to imply, if you are not practicing it, then you have no chance at "enlightenment"/"freedom"/"life after death" ...what-have-you....

Quantum: You know your stuff, don't you? That is apparently what is in the books...this whole idea of serving your life up for sacrifice to The Eagle through this breathwork is the purpose behind recapitulation, kinda like the raw steak a thief may leave for a guard dog...*totally grinning like a fool* One has to wonder if the Eagles has culinary preferences! LOL! (I sure hope it likes chopped liver!)

Perhaps all one needs is a good enough gift?

Anyway...joking aside, I think the connection here between meditation and recapitulation could be that when we meditate, we hve much less to recapitulate. Also, I think there is a natural tendency for kleshas and all emotional baggage to naturally arise during meditation, they are dealt with then and free up the energy as in recapitulation.

Yes?

I am also interested in dizfactor's POV, since it does touch on the whole idea of the nature of energy being endless and indestructable. Since however, I have neither perfected this nor do I have all the answers, maybe others can comment on this better than I.

BTW: I started this discussion for everyone's benefit- not mine alone. It had simply occurred to me how obscurred recapitulation is, as compared to other methods of achieving realization and other skillful means. It deserves to be examined as fully as other methods. N'est pas?

I hope this is useful for all, because I certainly appreciate it.
 
 
illmatic
21:07 / 23.06.03
Tempted to agree with Quantum here in that Castenda's techniques sound like they have their own terminology that doesn't dovetail easily with other systems. Not surprising, considering the cultural background these exercises are coming from, I suppose. (Anyone read that Victor Sanchez book, btw?) This is not a criticism, mind, it might be a strength, I don't know. Perhaps this is the reason for the obscurity of the technique as you mention, May?

aaaaanyway, I think the whole question of "energy" and what we mean by this term is something that merits it's own thread. Will start one tomorrow.

Also, as for replaying emotional scenes, one's past life or kleshas, with a new level of honesty, to free up whatever is bound therein, isn't this the same as many, many systems of therapy from psycho-analysis onward? Is there really a qualative difference in Castenda's ideas or is it just the terminology? Any thoughts? It also reminds me of Austin Spare's idea of "free belief". (Spare suggested freeing the "energy" bound up in our convictions and beliefs, largely through a process of contrast and contemplation of opposing beliefs)

(Please note - this isn't intended as an attack on CC's ideas or anyone whose interested in them. Just pointing out what seem to me to be some similarities. I recognise I may be completely misunderstanding his ideas).
 
 
cusm
22:41 / 23.06.03
This does sound like other exercises for getting rid of old baggage. By reviewing a situation this way, what you are doing is removing the emotional investment you had in it. So in that sense, energy is being freed or reclaimed. By this, should one do this for their entire life, they would achieve a state of Buddhist detachment.

As for the energy loss with sex, I never bought that bit much myself. The idea comes from Taoism and derived eastern practices. The Taoist explaination is that you have a discrete amount of personal chi, which is depleated during life. When its gone, so are you, and ejaculating depletes it. So, hence all the exercises in non-ejaculatory sex in Tantra and Taoist practice. Personally, I ditch the chi myth, and use the techniques, as there is still plenty of reason to do this. I just don't buy that it ages me or that if I never ejaculate I'll live forever. I like to think that expending energy increases your ability to gather energy, like working out to get stronger. So, the only reason I would recapitulate sex would be if there were emotional attachments involved in the act that I wanted to reclaim.
 
 
mixmage
00:35 / 24.06.03
*flipping thru the stack*

... okay, We've got The Eagle on one deck [Quantum Casteneda mix ] and I get what you mean about it not mixing so readily... but there's that Devourer of Souls lick that really reminds me of something...

ahh... *brings in Egyptian breaks* Ammut. I knew I'd heard the riff before. True Death... End of Existence. To die with "a heavy heart" - thus recapitlation?.

mmm... There's a dirty bassline running thru Nidhogg, the Norse corpse-sucker that might fit (which I heard some dude did a bootleg Choronzon mix of), but I reckon that slithering roller would wourk better in a Cthulloid set.

*flipping thru the stack*
 
 
Quantum
12:23 / 24.06.03
Ammut devours those who are not in balance, those not followingt Ma'at, if you have lived a just life (and can remember the negative confessions!) then you get to Amenti.
The Eagle devours everybody, regardless of virtue, unless you can fool him with a fabrication, a copy of you made from your memories and energy, and slip past him.
So the Egyptians reward virtue, Don Juan's Toltec tradition rewards cunning.
Nidhogg wants to upstage Fenris and devour the sun innit? He's a devourer, but more monster like Ammut (crocodilian terror that he is) than force of nature like the Eagle.

Is there really a qualative difference in Castenda's ideas or is it just the terminology?illmatic
The psychological processes are an end in themself in many traditions, freeing up energy etc. for your benefit. In CC it's a means to an end, it's not to make you feel better but to escape the Eagle. Don't ask about the Eagle though, it's pretty complicated and possibly made up by CC (trickster and liar that he was)- like the rest of his ontology it's pretty counterintuitive.
 
 
Who's your Tzaddi?
19:21 / 24.06.03
( Looks thru MixMage's break collection )
"Yarrrrrrrgh...I like the way that sounds, Magey!"
>>>Tzaddi grabs the record,spins it in reverse<<<

"........Waaaaaaaaahey! Bring it back come rewind!!!"


The new age is all about synthesis. Castaneda's teaching's are perfectly alligned to the Age of Ma'at which is the path of Lamed - The path with Heart - The 22nd path on the tree. I really wish someone had a copy of Gareth Knight's Qabalistic Symbolism at their disposal - you would see that the 4 precepts of Stalking are clearly outlined. I'll get mine and copy it out for you all tomorrow.
 
 
Papess
20:28 / 24.06.03
Thanks Tzaddi.

 
 
Who's your Tzaddi?
23:32 / 24.06.03
Hey, I didn't mean to come across as rude, May - I'm sure you know where I'm coming from though...
 
 
Papess
23:45 / 24.06.03
I didn't say anything about you being rude Big Tzaddi.
 
 
Eron
00:18 / 25.06.03
*Offers up his pearls of wisdom*

I never understood recapitulation in CC. I've had experiences lately though, that remind me of recapitulation, so I'm interested in this thread. Sometimes while recalling a past moment vividly, I've gotten the sense that I can push through a barrier and communicate with my past self.

My most recent experience of this happened a few weeks ago. I was listening to a track off Front 242's "Off" album. The music triggered off a vivid memory of myself in the past listening to this same song. And suddenly I felt like I could communicate with this past self. I sent him some positive energy (which he needed!) and realised I could connect with all my past selves who'd ever listened to this track! I sent them a message, along with more positive energy. While doing this, I kept manipulating the air in front of me, like a deranged mime. It felt right doing this, like it was helping all these past selves.

I finally understand why my friend claimed you could influence past events as well as the future (!Kewl!) I'm starting to think that moments in my past, where I would suddenly feel very calm, collected and centred, were moments where I was connected with my future self.
 
 
Quantum
10:55 / 25.06.03
you can also borrow power from your future self, but developing a psychic overdraft isn't good
Sending energy to your past and future selves is a great idea, especially to music- I might try it...
 
 
Papess
13:46 / 25.06.03
Wow, Eron...excellent method with the music
 
 
ciarconn
11:56 / 28.06.03
Hey, Quantum, Care to explain yourself? I'm interested on this time-warping power-sharing
 
 
Who's your Tzaddi?
14:38 / 28.06.03
Remember the third self - the one who sits on the outside - and if not, try Bill and Ted's Bogus Journey remember things you do in the future to affect your present via the past.

Ha.
 
 
Quantum
09:25 / 01.07.03
It's stolen from fiction. A Mage was in a tight spot, so used a swift time spell to borrow some power from his future self, managed to escape the danger. Then the bad guys watched him, worked out when he would suddenly have power sucked out of him into his past self, and busted him then when he was vulnerable.
Eron is effectively recommending the opposite, where you willingly give away power to your past or future self- much wiser I reckon.
Storing power is useful (which is effectively giving it to your future) but you can push yourself, thus borrowing from the future (when you will have to rest).
 
  
Add Your Reply