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Left and right

 
 
Secularius
09:55 / 20.06.03
Could someone tell me what exactly is the essential difference between the so-called left-handed path and right-handed path in magick? I read somewhere that right-handers believe in a higher deity and strive towards destruction of self and dissolution into a greater whole, whereas left-handers are agnostic and strife to become god-like, retaining their identity and ego all along. Left-handers are also supposedly somewhat amoral while right-handers follow certain morals and rules. Are chaotees lefties or righties, or perhaps both...or neither?

What are your opinions on this? Discuss.
 
 
illmatic
10:37 / 20.06.03
At a guess, I’d say this can be traced back to Indian social customs – instead of using bog roll, Indians tend customarily clean themselves with their left hands, therefore it’s taboo to eat with this hand, the right hand taking this role. I don’t know if we can trace a direct cross over from this usage to western esoteric circles, it might have come from India via the Theosophical Society – anyone any idea of the first occurrence of this term? Actually, thinking about it there’s all sorts of dodgy associations with left handedness, so maybe I’m off the mark there.

It’s basically a replaying of the old black magician/white magician thing, with a lot of people self- consciously identifying with the left (ie. Temple of Set) as being all about individuality and freedom. What I'ev read of ToS stuff is very much about self-deification rather than surrender. See this book review

Don’t know where I fit in myself (and don’t care much, either).
 
 
_Boboss
10:39 / 20.06.03
did none of you see kilroy this morning? that would have told you har har har har
 
 
Quantum
10:52 / 20.06.03
right and left are just synonyms for white and black magic, good and evil. The left path is sinister (from the latin) the right dextrous (the Romans were heavily right hand biased). That's why witches were supposed to be left handed, because of their sinister connection to the devil.
It's rubbish basically, so people can say 'ooh, beware the temptations of the left hand path' instead of 'watch out you don't turn evil' although the implications of handedness are interesting for lots of reasons.
Chaotes tend to ignore which path people say they are following and leave the path, trailblazing through the trackless jungle of postmodern magical practice picking whatever forbidden fruit they can find. Maybe they're ambidextrous
 
 
electric monk
11:58 / 20.06.03
As I understand it, the right-hand path (or "white" magic) consists of magic done to make changes in yourself. The left-hand path ("black" magic ooooo) consists of magic done to make changes in the world. This might be an oversimplification or out-and-out wrongheaded.

IMHO, if you're only using one hand, you've cut your effectiveness in half.
 
 
trouser the trouserian
13:27 / 20.06.03
As I understand it the term has it's origins in Tantrika where Vama Marga = "left-hand path". The left-hand path tends to be associated with non-Vedic practices including the use of drugs, sexuality & antinomean practices. Naturally, such practices were viewed with deep suspicion by Western orientalists and taken as 'evidence' of Hindoo [sic] depravity. As Illmatic says, the Theosophical Society were probably instrumental in popularising the negative associations of the term. Mme Blavatsky for example, took the view of history as a continuing battle between the good guys and the bad guys:

"In late ages, the Initiates of the Left Hand Path took in hand most of those venerable monuments, then deserted, and turned them indeed into phallic monuments. This was a deliberate, wilful, and vicious misinterpretation of their real meaning."

Blavatsky & co's "Left Hand Path" definition was taken up by other occultists such as AE Waite who wrote about the "sovereign horror of the Brothers of the Left Hand Path", and Crowley et al, and thence, to paraphrase Pete Carroll, the idea has passed from book to book without any intervening thought. Characterisations of LHP-magicians can be found in Crowley's Moonchild, Dennis Wheatley's superb The Devil Rides Out and In Dion Fortune's fiction, where she portrays LHP 'dabblers' as effeminate bohemians - taking drugs, indulging in [shudder] 'free love', blackmail etc.

One of my all-time favourites is Gareth Knight's assertion that: "Homosexuality, like drugs, is a technique of the left-hand path."
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
14:19 / 20.06.03
"Homosexuality, like drugs, is a technique of the left-hand path."

I want that on a t-shirt.

In Vodou, there is the concept of 'serving the Lwa with both hands' - which, as I understand it, means that you are an active member of The Religion but you also use the power that brings to work sorcery. I tend to think of my own position in these terms, rather than identifying with either a perceived 'left' or 'right' hand path. If I serve with both hands, then the type of work that I will or will not undertake for a client is entirely dependent on my own moral compass. I have to make a judgement based on what I know about a situation, and take responsibility for my own actions on a case-by-case basis - rather than situating myself within one of 2 pre-ordained camps.
 
 
gravitybitch
14:30 / 20.06.03
I can understand the reasoning behind consciously doing things that are taboo/"left-handed" as a way of breaking early programming etc (we've all read Rob't Anton Wilson, right?), but in practice it seems like a lot of people get stuck in those practices and keep doing them long after the initial shock and dislocation are over, without any additional analysis...

It's a conversation I wish I'd had when a ceremonial magickian was camping on my couch for months... He was vocal about the left-hand path being the means of raising oneself towards godhead, but definitely followed it into what looked like all sorts of self abuse. I wish I could have started a discussion about what, if anything, he was learning without him taking it as criticism.

Don't know if he ever pulled out of it... We had a serious falling out and haven't spoken since.


On a lighter note, I'm probably doomed to all sorts of hells I don't believe in as I'm quite ambidextrous, bi, and a budding chaote with a strong leaning towards the tantric philosophy of embracing the thorns as well as the blossoms of life...
 
 
Secularius
14:46 / 20.06.03
Interesting to hear about these Indian origins of the left and right hand terms.

It seems to me that the early Gnostics, as well as the Hindus, were divided into paths of ascetism and deprivation of the senses on the one hand and excess of sensual delights on the other. Since the body and all matter was considered inherently evil, created by the evil Demiurge, one had to try and free the spirit from the imprisonment of the body by directly attacking it, either by depriving or exhausting the bodily senses. Whether they made a distinction between the two paths and called them different names I don't know.
 
 
Who's your Tzaddi?
22:42 / 20.06.03
The word Sinister meaning left.
 
 
cusm
23:17 / 20.06.03
The left hand path is EEEEEEEVILE, of course.

Though really, its all of the things people mentioned above. Impose a duality onto your practice. The "darker" side of this duality would be assiciated with the left, whatever it may be. Then dismiss the lot as rubbish and continue what you were doing anyay. When you wash your hands after you do your thing, it matters less which you used to wipe yourself with.
 
 
mixmage
19:44 / 21.06.03
The Kung-fu salute: fist in palm.
Stark Fist of Removal vs Slack Fist of Retrieval.

It's kinda like the difference Tyson raises between Magi and Magickians [for want of a better word]. Magi tend to be spiritual, altruistic, concerned with the well-being and liberation of all sentient life; "Magus" being derived from the Persian for "Priest"... this is what I call Right Hand Path.

On the other hand, we have those ergi sorcerors with their underhanded techniques... seeking acquisition or gain thru magickal practises, more selfishly motivated and disinclined to bother about the rest of society and their lot. Personal freedom matters more.

That's the division... like whether you believe in altruism or the selfish gene. "All life is one" vs "we're no better than animals"... either way "there is no difference". One Taste.

I suppose the left teaches the right that all limitations are self-imposed, no rules are carved in stone. We choose our limits, morals, where to draw the line [rhp], then cross it if we want [lhp].
 
 
—| x |—
00:11 / 22.06.03
Hmm, what has been said so far about the {left, right} pairing has been reasonable and “factual” as far as I can see. I’d like to add my two bits as well, though. The distinction between the left and right (as opposed to the singularity right-left) is for, like cusm notes, “impos[ing] a duality onto your practice.” What this means is that it is a heuristic device for categorizing our reality. It is much like we learn to work with individual sephiroth and the individual paths, but as we learn more and more about these singularities we come to see that in each sephira and each path is mirrored the whole structure; i.e., left or right is the distinction we use until we are poised to overcome this method of categorization.

A few years ago I wrote an essay related to this subject called “Post-Mortem: A Logical Analysis of Aspects of the Mystical Experience Through a Deconstruction of the Pythagorean Table of Opposites.” In the essay I play off some of the introductory remarks and concerns of Grace Jantzen in her book Power, Gender, and Christian Mysticism. I argue that the division of singularities is required for any phenomenological experience. To establish this, I look at the basic spatial division that we require as the matrix of our experience: we need to divide left from right, up from down, and ahead from behind in order to have any sort of understanding and experience in this world. In other words, we impose this duality upon our practice in order for there to be any practice at all! Related to a whole class of binary pairs is the pair {true, false}. Now way back when (circa 500 BCE), the Pythagorean Mystery School had developed a table of opposites which reflected their esoteric beliefs. This table has the following ten binary pairings: {limit, unlimited}, {odd, even}, {one, plurality}, {right, left}, {male, female}, {resting, moving}, {straight, curved}, {light, darkness}, {good, bad}, {square, oblong}. What occurs here is that the necesarry division of these singularities into their respective dichotomized pairs become illogically or arbitrarily associated amongst themselves. In the list of pairs I have preserved the structure of the table: each element that is listed first in any set becomes associated with one and other, and the same for the second elements of each set. Thus, left = bad = female = darkness, etc.. From here I show that this whole association is absurd, and that we cannot with any degree of accuracy allow a strict identity across these dichotomies. Based on this examination I propose a “Principle of Compliments” which works to illustrate how we cannot establish stable identities across these pairs and that whenever we consider an actual existing thing, we have to consider it as a whole. This requires that, while we made need to divide a host of binary singularities to experience phenomena, we must keep in mind the ebb and flow of our unstable or indeterminate heuristic categorization.

If anyone would like a copy of this essay through email, please PM me. Also, if you are willing to ignore some bickering and bad vibes, you can check out this damned diZzy thread where I (and others) construct/perform a linguistic-magic/kal experiment, in (my) part inspired by my analysis in “Post-Mortem.”
 
 
Sha Jotaro
01:33 / 22.06.03
Meh. I've decided that I needed both hands a long time ago. Thing is, how can you tell when a certain spell is left or right these days? You've got so-called 'right-hand' types that bind you without a second thought, and 'left-hand' types who never throw a single curse.
 
 
Quantum
12:32 / 24.06.03
from 'The Philosopher's Secret Fire- a history of the imagination, Patrick Harpur (Penguin 2002) chapter 8 'How Natives Think'

"No matter where we look- ancient Greece, Africa, China, South America- human beings have a natural tendency to divide the world in two. More precisely, they classify the world in pairs. Western culture favours oppposite pairs due to it's fondness for polarising.
...
[he goes on to list the common pairs that crop up everywhere-]
Right-Left
Sun- Moon
Light- Dark
North- South
Even- Odd
Male- Female
Dry- Wet
Hot- Cold
Hard- Soft
Politics- Religion


he says they are "not synonomous but Homologous. We cannot say 'Sun=Male' or 'Sun symbolises male' or 'moon is synonomous with femakle'- we have to say 'Sun is to Moon as Male is to Female, as Even is to Odd' and so on. In other words, the terms relate to each other by analogy."
 
 
Quantum
14:25 / 24.06.03
He continues to say;
"The lesson of analogical thinking is that the symbolic value we attach to things is not fixed and absolute. In Christian dress codes for instance, we think of white as symbolising purity. But we must recognise that the meaning of white cannot be divorced from it's analogical underpinnings. White:Black Wedding Dress:Mourning Dress Bride:Widow. For Nuns White:Black Novice:Bride (of Christ).
...Analogical thought seeks to resolve contradictions by transposing them to different metaphorical levels. In many tribal cultures a woman can be both 'wet' and 'dry'. This seems contradictory until we grasp the implicit analogy- a woman is to man as wet is to dry; but a woman is to a menstruating woman as dry is to wet. We do this sort of level changing ourselves and it lies at the root of our thought."
 
 
—| x |—
15:01 / 24.06.03
…we have to say 'Sun is to Moon as Male is to Female, as Even is to Odd' and so on. In other words, the terms relate to each other by analogy.

Yes, I think this is an reasonable (and interesting) way to look at the cross connection of dualistic pairs. In my paper I take a slight step beyond this. Within the “Principle of Compliments” I mention above there is embedded a rule inspired in part by “the Uncertainty Principle” from QM. What occurs in my analysis is that I use the notion of “The Principle of the Excluded Middle,” which gives us a division across two general categories: A or not A. The result of my analysis shows that “…any z which exists in the world” is in a state of an incalculable mixture of A & not A. Thus, I move from the reasonable “Sun is to Moon as Male is to Female” to assert that anything that exists contains its opposite: a male has female elements, what is sacred is also profane, a courageous person also has traits of a coward, what is to the right is necessarily involved with what is to the left, and so on. That is, “[w]e can see that the association among the pairs becomes richer under this rule as their individual elements are constantly free to roam from A to A’ [note that within the paper I establish that A’ = not A] when taken into consideration relative to other ordered pairs.”
 
 
Secularius
20:47 / 15.07.03
This funny guy I ran into while browsing Amazon seems to have the left/right, black/white distinction all sorted out:

"Black Tantra is the method to feed desire, to build desire, to fulfill the Instinctive Mind, and to create unimaginable karmic debts for oneself. White Tantra teaches the Elimination of Desire, the conquering of lust and pride, and the purification of the mind and heart. Grey Tantra mixes them, and inevitably leads to Black Tantra, as the weight of the Ego is so heavy in humanity."

He then puts it in simpler terms: "Black schools recommend the students enjoy the orgasm. Grey Alchemists recommend the occasional spilling of the sexual energy. White Alchemists demand the complete renunciation of the orgasm."

Could it be that simple? I know he's criticizing the current fad of new age sexual guides under the pseudonym of tantra. But this coincides with the two contradictory paths of yoga, the path of the common man who is in the world and indulges in its pleasures, and the path of the holy man (yogi/guru/baba/sadhu/etc..) who renounces the world and its earthly pleasures. The same goes for gnostic Christianity, where we had the strict ascetics on the one hand and the extreme libertines on the other.
 
 
Perfect Tommy
22:58 / 15.07.03
Quantum: ...the implications of handedness are interesting for lots of reasons.

Not the least of which is the property of mirrors that converts left into right, or that rotation through 4-space would do the same thing... That seems like it could go somewhere...
 
 
Salamander
02:22 / 16.07.03
I think the reason that left/right destinctions still hold sway as a valid idea with some people is the fact that they never really grew up. Still wallowing in the fantasy book world of there youth, they've missed the point of what there doing. Now don't get me wrong, I read dragon lance novels like alot of other people, but there was a certain point were I decided that most of the plots in these books were bullshit, like most fairytails and fantasy, just stories for children that don't know any better, a socialization tool at best. So nowadays we still have white/black, left/right, good/evil, and anyone who dissapproves of what the magician next to them is doing has the vocabulative power to express there opinion as if it had the weight of fact.
 
 
cusm
13:41 / 17.07.03
Indeed. This also tends towards the distinction of "white" being what I'm doing, and "black" being everything else those heathen monkies busy themselves with.
 
 
trouser the trouserian
15:06 / 17.07.03
Alternatively, if one is into the whole spiritual dissent thing, then "black" is the antinomean/chaos/odinic 'hardcore' magic, and "white" is what the tree-hugging, whiny new agers and wiccans do. "Puff's magic", as Mick "McMagus" Lyons infamously put it.
 
 
Sobek
20:29 / 22.07.03

It was said:

*I read somewhere that right-handers believe in a higher deity and strive towards destruction of self and dissolution into a greater whole, whereas left-handers are agnostic and strife to become god-like, retaining their identity and ego all along.*

This is basically correct.

*Left-handers are also supposedly somewhat amoral while right-handers follow certain morals and rules.*

Or those who follow the LHP may simply have different morals, deriving from a different focus and set of values.

You owe it to yourself to read LORDS OF THE LEFT-HAND PATH by Dr. Stephen Flowers if you are interested in this matter.
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
20:45 / 22.07.03
67. Thoth put aside the game and spoke to him and said,
"You shall write my wisdom with your right hand,
And in the drinking of this ink shall you make it your own."

68. And Thoth crushed the gaming pieces and made ink,
And he wrote therewith from the Book,
And then washed the words into a cup,
From which he drank until it was empty.

69. And the words of the book were made part of him,
And written into him, and inscribed upon him,
And he was the Book.

70. Yet Thoth spoke again, and said,
"There is more, and this also you shall drink,"
But the second gift exceeded his capacity, and he could not drink.

71. And Thoth bad him write with his left hand
The Second Book. And this Second Book he must carry with him,
For it was beyond his capacity.

72. And he went up out of the tomb, and returned to Egypt,
And easily he practiced the magic of the First Book.
But the magic of the Second Book would not bend to his will,
And only ill came of its use.
 
  
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