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Madonna reads the Filth?

 
 
PatrickMM
17:56 / 16.06.03
A column here about using celebrities to promote comics, and most of those ads seem accurate, but I'd never heard of Madonna reading The Filth. Anyone know if this is accurate, or where she'd commented about it?

http://www.dynamicforces.com/htmlfiles/tommy42.html
 
 
The Falcon
18:59 / 16.06.03
She apparently reads (or has read) Grant Morrison, but not necessarily The Filth.
 
 
CameronStewart
19:55 / 16.06.03
Those are a lawsuit waiting to happen.
 
 
Graeme McMillan
19:58 / 16.06.03
Shh. Don't tell Rich that. Or, indeed, any of the comics pros - Mark Millar, Andy Diggle, I'm looking at you - who've been foaming at the mouth telling their fans to print them out and stick them everywhere...
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
09:08 / 17.06.03
A whole new world of ewwww.



This campaign makes me want to burn every comic book I own, then put out my eyes. On second thoughts, maybe I could just track down every single post-WEF dribbling sadsack involved and put out their eyes. What jury would convict?
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
09:12 / 17.06.03
Surely if he really did read comics, he'd have pointed out at some stage during the making of Daredevil that being stealthy's kinda tricky when you're dressed ENTIRELY IN LEATHER??? WHICH CREAKS?

(I dunno, maybe it's just me that's crap at being stealthy in leather.)
 
 
mondo a-go-go
09:41 / 17.06.03
hahahahahahahahahahaha!

I love Rich Johnston.
 
 
sleazenation
11:53 / 17.06.03
OK to turn this thread away from a lot of jokery and sniping at other people's attempts to promote comics let us instead pose the question-

How would YOU promote comics? And if you wouldn't, why not?

answers on a post please...
 
 
PatrickMM
14:26 / 17.06.03
Actually, I don't think the idea behind those posters is that bad. I think that there's enough material currently out in comics for anyone to find something to read, but there's a stigma attached with the medium, and maybe having celebrities saying that they read comics could work to make people see comics as fun to read and culturally acceptable. The bad thing about this campaign is it doesn't actually advertise comics as stories, it would just show that they're cool, and while that may work for milk, since everyone knows where/what milk to buy, you need something a bit more specific than just the name of a book.

I think the best way to advertise would be to just focus on the merits of each book, give a quick plot description, and then have some critical praise, then say available at book stores and comic book stores everywhere. It would be similar to a movie poster, after the release, but with a bit more plot description.
 
 
quinine92001
00:31 / 18.06.03
Morrison mentions in an old interview that he had originally planned to dress the Joker from Arkham Asylum in a Madonna outfit. Also Todd McFarlane threw some Madonna project Grant's way after Grant did some work on Spawn. I don't think anything came out of it. Mcfarlane turned the project down because his wife was better looking.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
09:35 / 18.06.03
Better-looking than Grant Morrison? Surely not...
 
 
CameronStewart
11:47 / 18.06.03
I don't think the idea behind the posters is all that bad either - people LOOOOOOVE their celebrities and if they're going to make every effort to talk and dress like them, and eat the food and drink they endorse, it stands to reason that they might also possibly be persuaded to check out a comic or two if Sam Jackson and Ben Affleck give the thumbs-up.

The problem with these "ads" is that they're more or less fraudulent - none of the celebs have given their permission to be pictured endorsing comics. In the case of Madonna, there's not a shred of evidence to suggest she's ever heard of The Filth - whoever mocked them up, Rich Johnston or whoever, admitted that was just conjecture. If anyone seriously does try and distribute these, there's going to be some cease and desist letters flying around.
 
 
8===>Q: alyn
17:20 / 18.06.03
Feh. Celebrity PSAs are dopey. Comics should be less like Hollywood, not more, and if the industry needs promotion, it should be as a literary genre, not as dumbstick "entertainment." A serious effort to get comics into libraries, the NYT book review, school curriculum, and so on, would be smarter. I don't even think this would be that effective--I don't think celebity endorsements really do effect cultural behavior that much. When you see a celebrity endorsement, they're shilling for a product that is already successful but in competition with other products of the same type--sneakers or soda or ISPs or whatever--but they haven't successfully raised the profile of, say, Dianetics or mountain climbing. Imagine if Jim Carrey got up and said, "Mountain climbing is really cool and I think everyone should do it." Unless you're prepared to have Madonna shilling for DC vs Ben Affleck for Marvel, which would tend to further harm publishers who can only afford, like, Kari Wuhrer or somebody, it's not going to work. And paying them to promote comics is really lame. If they won't do it for love of the genre, fuck them.

Also, these particular "ads" are dumbheaded. Most of these people have been in comic book movies, but there's no evidence that they give a shit about comics in general.
 
 
diz
17:46 / 18.06.03
Comics should be less like Hollywood, not more

i disagree. first of all, comics are more successful as a visual medium than as a literary one. second, movies are more successful and, arguably more important as a result, than books are right now and for the foreseeable future.

A serious effort to get comics into libraries, the NYT book review, school curriculum, and so on, would be smarter.

i don't think this would work. there are all sorts of issues with class and prestige and such involved here which you can't force. comics are pop, good comics are indie-pop.

I don't even think this would be that effective--I don't think celebity endorsements really do effect cultural behavior that much.

i think this belief is staggeringly naive.

they haven't successfully raised the profile of, say, Dianetics or mountain climbing.

bullshit, they haven't. Dianetics, in particular, has gained massive amounts of clout and exposure from celebrity endorsements.


Imagine if Jim Carrey got up and said, "Mountain climbing is really cool and I think everyone should do it."

maybe Jim Carrey is a bad example. if, say, Vin Diesel or someone else with some buzz started mountain climbing, and having big celeb-studded mountain climbing expeditions, and MTV and People started doing little featurettes on how all the cool people are getting into climbing, then climbing would get buzz by association. when people looked at climbing gear, they'd picture Ben Affleck and J.Lo all sweaty and buff and climbing some sun-drenched California peak.

that's what this campaign is trying to do. people see comics now and think "Comic-Book Guy from the Simpsons." If they started looking at them and thinking "Madonna," that would be an improvement.

Also, these particular "ads" are dumbheaded. Most of these people have been in comic book movies, but there's no evidence that they give a shit about comics in general.

that's not true, actually. Madonna's definitely news to me, but i know that Shaq is a big Superman fan, and QT has made all sorts of comic book references in his movies, etc.

that doesn't mean that they'll hand out rights to plaster their likeness all over comic shops, but it's not totally far-fetched or out of the blue.
 
 
PatrickMM
18:44 / 18.06.03
Also, these particular "ads" are dumbheaded. Most of these people have been in comic book movies, but there's no evidence that they give a shit about comics in general.

I know Affleck wrote an introduction for Kevin Smith's Daredevil trade, before he was associated with the movie, and Samuel L. Jackson appeared on the Unbreakable DVD talking about how he was happy to see a revival of crime comics. So, they may not be looking to promote comics, but at least they're reading them. And it goes a way towards proving Grant's theory that only the most cool and the most uncool read comics correct.
 
 
CameronStewart
18:48 / 18.06.03
>>>Also, these particular "ads" are dumbheaded. Most of these people have been in comic book movies, but there's no evidence that they give a shit about comics in general<<<

Sam Jackson has said numerous times in interviews that he's a big comics fan. His autographed photo is up on the wall in Golden Apple comics in LA. Ben Affleck claims he is a lifelong Daredevil fan and wrote the intro to the collected edition of the Kevin Smith/Joe Quesada run. If Warren Ellis is to be believed, he and Patrick Stewart are pals and Stewart is an avid Transmetropolitan reader. And so on.

I have no doubt that any of the people used in the ads are real comics fans (except perhaps Madonna) - it's just that they're usually paid quite highly for PSAs and endorsements, and none of them likely give a shit about comics THAT much to want to volunteer their image and reputation for The Cause.

And yes, not thinking that celebrity endorsements influence the buying patterns of the public is pretty naive. Why the fuck else would they continue to use them?
 
 
8===>Q: alyn
19:01 / 18.06.03
i disagree. first of all, comics are more successful as a visual medium than as a literary one. second, movies are more successful and, arguably more important as a result, than books are right now and for the foreseeable future.

This is opinion, of course, but I think both counts are balderdash, unless by "successful" you mean "lucrative." "Literary" and "visual" are not really opposed qualities, and movies have been running on plagiarism for a least ten years (When did Batman come out? '91?). If this is only about making comics more profiable, then I guess this is an okay idea, but raising the cost of entry is not likely to make for better, more original or interesting--or "literary" or "successful"--comics.

A serious effort to get comics into libraries, the NYT book review, school curriculum, and so on, would be smarter.

i don't think this would work. there are all sorts of issues with class and prestige and such involved here which you can't force. comics are pop, good comics are indie-pop.


If you used the cash earmarked for celebrity endorsements to bribe reviewers and book-buyers instead, I bet you could force it. This is illegal, though, I think.

I don't think celebity endorsements really do effect cultural behavior that much.

i think this belief is staggeringly naive.


It's not, though. It works the other way around. MTV and Hollywood and whatever other culturemakers you want to reference are consistently behind the curve by at least a year, and that's when they're really on the ball--I think it was Roseanne who first pointed this out. What does work is when a celebrity endorses a specific product over another one, but that has nothing to do with trendmaking or whatever. Ad execs, tv producers, publicists, etc, are parasites that comics don't need.

they haven't successfully raised the profile of, say, Dianetics or mountain climbing.

bullshit, they haven't. Dianetics, in particular, has gained massive amounts of clout and exposure from celebrity endorsements.


I chose Dianetics specifically because of all the celebrities involved. The Church of Scientology (or whatever it's called) succeeds because it runs a really good line of bull and as a result has very deep pockets, but its credibility has only been hurt by flakes like Travolta and Cruise--and you don't see them talking it up much anymore.

Vin Diesel or someone else with some buzz started mountain climbing, and having big celeb-studded mountain climbing expeditions, and MTV and People started doing little featurettes on how all the cool people are getting into climbing, then climbing would get buzz by association.

For a couple of months, yeah. Then you'd have millions of greenhorns hitting the slopes, fucking up the scenery and falling on all the expert climbers who have a real passion for the sport on its own merits, raising the cost of everything... and eventually the fad would pass and look faintly ridiculous for the next 20 years or so. "Gee, remember when all those idiots were following that thicknecked dillweed Vin Diesel up a mountain?"

that's what this campaign is trying to do. people see comics now and think "Comic-Book Guy from the Simpsons." If they started looking at them and thinking "Madonna," that would be an improvement.

Well, fair enough. But I'd find it a lot more palatible if these comics people with the celebrity friends, like Kevins Eastman or Smith, Neal Gaiman, or the allegeds like Morrison, Ennis, or Moore, organized promotional activities based on and inspired by genuine love of the form than these lucre-driven ripoff ad campaigns. Kevin Smith's Daredevil may've been underwhelming, but it was a lot better than those old rock-n-roll comics clearly designed to cash in on a fad.

Most of these people have been in comic book movies, but there's no evidence that they give a shit about comics in general.

that's not true, actually.


While I will accept a charge of shooting my mouth off here, since I can't really prove my negative assertion, I did say "most." Aside from Affleck, Amos, Shaq and Quentin, I don't know of any of those guys saying or doing anything comics related that didn't involve a multi-million dollar paycheck--and I'm not even sure about Quentin.

And, rather off-topic, I have a funny second-hand account of Patrick Stewart's sexual practices, if anyone wants to contact me privately.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
19:02 / 18.06.03
people see comics now and think "Comic-Book Guy from the Simpsons." If they started looking at them and thinking "Madonna," that would be an improvement.

But they won't think 'Madonna', they'll think "inevitably male person who thinks Madonna's career to date amounts to 'wanting the world to be her gynaecologist'". Possibly with the addendum: "creepy fuckwit".

That's probably my biggest problem with a couple of these designs - they actually serve to reinforce and promote the more ickily locker-room elements of comics fandom, when 'we' should be striving hard to dispel it and encourage more female comics readers. I mean, jeez, Ben Affleck "worked his way through" Gwyneth Paltrow and Jennifer Lopez? "Worked his way"?? Nicholas Cage "traded up"? Ah yes, girlfriends are like Heroclix, you trade them... I see. There's also a variant version of the Affleck which substitutes "screwed" - pick whichever one you consider more charming. This wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't coupled with the way Madonna is presented and the one championing Howard Stern... oh, but hang on, Jada Pinkett Smith gets one 'cos she's in The Matrix Reloaded. Hmmm. Yeah, that's gonna get rid of that 'Comic Store Guy' reputation...

There's also the fact that it's all a bit like the "Christians can be cool too!" claims I remember from church. Look, Bono's a Christian! Sort of! Maybe! Okay, he probably was one once! And he's cool! Sort of! He was once! Gah.
 
 
8===>Q: alyn
19:12 / 18.06.03
Yeah, that, too. Freddie Prinz's "all women and ten percent of men" is cute as well. Though I think, since these are mock-ups by one man, and their publicists (and hopefully they themselves) would surely suggest less dickheaded slogans, this is not necessarily what's wrong with the idea--just this version of it.
 
 
diz
19:36 / 18.06.03
i think this belief is staggeringly naive.

It's not, though. It works the other way around. MTV and Hollywood and whatever other culturemakers you want to reference are consistently behind the curve by at least a year, and that's when they're really on the ball--I think it was Roseanne who first pointed this out.


i think that's an oversimplification. the usual chain of trendmaking goes:

- Innovators
- Early Adopters
- Early Majority
- Late Majority
- Late Adopters

MTV and the like are pretty much stuck at early majority, agreed, and i think that by the nature of being the Mainstream Media VOice Of Youth Culture they're stuck there.

however, not all, but a lot of individual celebrities are high-visibility early adopters (or even innovators), and people do pay attention. for example, Quentin Tarantino's obsession with John Woo and Hong Kong cinema in general helped spark a boom of wider interest in that movie scene in the US. they can help start a buzz and things can ripple from there.

For a couple of months, yeah. Then you'd have millions of greenhorns hitting the slopes, fucking up the scenery and falling on all the expert climbers who have a real passion for the sport on its own merits, raising the cost of everything... and eventually the fad would pass and look faintly ridiculous for the next 20 years or so. "Gee, remember when all those idiots were following that thicknecked dillweed Vin Diesel up a mountain?"

i'm not saying it would be permanent, but what do you want? what is permanent in pop culture, anyway? another boom-and-bust cycle like the late 80s/early 90s could kill comics and could flood the market with crap, but comics are dying right now anyway. a temporary boom at this point is better than nothing.

While I will accept a charge of shooting my mouth off here, since I can't really prove my negative assertion, I did say "most." Aside from Affleck, Amos, Shaq and Quentin, I don't know of any of those guys saying or doing anything comics related that didn't involve a multi-million dollar paycheck--and I'm not even sure about Quentin.

i think Quentin's an obsessive pop-culture geek in general. comics fandom seems right up his alley.

besides, haven't you seen Reservoir Dogs?

"You know The Fantastic Four?"
"Oh, yeah, yeah, like with the Invisible Bitch and 'Flame On!' an' shit!"


come on... that's love, right there...

And, rather off-topic, I have a funny second-hand account of Patrick Stewart's sexual practices, if anyone wants to contact me privately.

ooh! dish, baby!
 
 
arcboi
19:40 / 18.06.03
>sigh< Worst. Topic. Ever


Rest assured I was on the internet within minutes registering my disgust throughout the world...
 
 
8===>Q: alyn
19:46 / 18.06.03
i'm not saying it would be permanent, but what do you want?

Artistic integrity and low barriers to entry for innovators.
 
 
moriarty
03:25 / 19.06.03
"I took a leap." - Rich Johnston on Madonna reading the Filth.

For the record, Leo Dicaprio's father was an underground cartoonist. One of Leo's first exposures to sex was through the comic S. Clay Wilson's Checkered Demon. Unfortunately.

Jada Plinkett Smith has written a comic called Menace for Rob Liefeld's Awesome company. Unfortunately.

I didn't notice the little "parody" warnings on the images the first time around. No doubt Johnston will be able to fill a whole Lying In The Gutters on his own woes in short time.
 
  
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